Investing in Bit Coins - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

dyna mo · 03-28-2013, 12:41 PM

looks like avalon is getting the gremlins sorted out, this is from a buyer

Quote:

No contact at all from them yet, just the order confirmation. The website has been updated and now says batch 2 will ship April 15 and batch 3 will ship May 5. But they started shipping batch 1 Jan 30 and they're still working on it so it's anybody's guess. They claim to have figured out a lot of issues and will get the next 2 batches out much more quickly.

batch 3 is done sold out too

dyna mo · 03-28-2013, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

I've seen some crazy set ups on Youtube but never seen any real numbers from anyone. On average, how many btc does the average miner mine per 24 hours?

1. you can see various rigs here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison

2. select one and snag its hash rate and plug that in here

3. http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/

4. profit!

pornmasta · 03-28-2013, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BareBacked

What is the best way to get in?

dyna mo · 03-28-2013, 12:49 PM

the BIG factor is the fact that the mining rate is directly tied to the mining activity, when the asic rigs really come on line in the coming months, the # of bitcoins mined per rig will drop significantly.

i don't know if i am explaining that right, using the right terms, but i believe that is the gist of what will happen very soon.

Si · 03-28-2013, 12:57 PM

Has anyone found out what is actually "mined" yet? Just wondering

MikeRoth · 03-28-2013, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

I've seen some crazy set ups on Youtube but never seen any real numbers from anyone. On average, how many btc does the average miner mine per 24 hours?

When I first started mining a year ago I was making about 1 bitcoin a day, I believe they were worth about $20 then before it crashed to less than $1. Today with the same GPU I mine 0.01 bitcoins per day.

As far as the average miner it's hard to say. It all depends on how many miners they have and their hardware. Since the difficulty to mine them goes up along with the total hashrate a lot of people were re-investing into additional mining rigs to try and keep a steady flow of bitcoins. Otherwise you'll be mining less and less bitcoins.

CPU mining became obsolete once GPU mining started roaring. Now that ASIC miners are starting to hit after a while GPU mining will become obsolete.

As always the first people to start using new mining technology always make the most money. (One of the first ASIC miners reported making $1,300 in 9 days) Once the market becomes flooded with the new technology profitability drops like a rock.

dyna mo · 03-28-2013, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

I've seen some crazy set ups on Youtube but never seen any real numbers from anyone. On average, how many btc does the average miner mine per 24 hours?

taking my own suggestion,

i plugged in the asic batch #1 rig, at $1299, you make your ducats back in 3 days.

the problem is everyone will get their batch #1 rig at the ~same time, completely changing the current difficulty # dramatically- as i understand it, and i have no idea how to guess what the new # will be.

dyna mo · 03-28-2013, 01:03 PM

there ya go, Mike has the experience on it, thanks!

looks like this site gives a 14 day out guestimate on the difficulty

http://bitcoindifficulty.com/

so in 14 days there will be a 5% increase in total computing power/economy, which means after the anticipated dip this weekend there should be a super nice uptick in value eh? fair to say??

Serge Litehead · 03-28-2013, 01:15 PM

no, value is not driven by difficulty

mayabong · 03-28-2013, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

how many rigs would you say you need to break even in 3 months? based on the 1st batch of avalon rigs and butterfly rigs are out now and batch 2 *i think* is delivering asap, and batch 3 is the final batch, as i understand that, delivering, what, in 6 more month?.

At the current difficulty, the 60 Gh/s Buttfly labs miner would break even in a few days. You would get around $350 to $400 a day at the current rates.

If you ordered now you wouldn't get your BFL order for many months. By that time the difficulty will be Sky high. You would get way less bitcoins but, that could also be offset by a way higher exchange rate.

Never judge your possible earnings by the mining calculators.

dyna mo · 03-28-2013, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holograph

no, value is not driven by difficulty

can you help me understand that? as i understand the basic economy of bitcoins, the value is determined (tied to,even) based on total computational power of all rigs running the bitcoin.exe?

MikeRoth · 03-28-2013, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holograph

no, value is not driven by difficulty

It's driven by supply and demand pretty much as well as confidence in the currency. The amount of bitcoins you can mine with a specific hashrate is driven by the difficulty.

L-Pink · 03-28-2013, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

can you help me understand that? as i understand the basic economy of bitcoins, the value is determined (tied to,even) based on total computational power of all rigs running the bitcoin.exe?

Value is based on what people are willing to pay.

dyna mo · 03-28-2013, 01:22 PM

ok, so here's the problem- miners are awarded blocks of 50 bitcoins at a time. as a solo miner, your statistical odds of that, compared to mining groups, is very very low, according to this

Quote:

if you actually want to make Bitcoin (money), you probably need to join a pool. A pool is a group that combines their computing power to make more Bitcoins. The reason you shouldn’t go it alone is that Bitcoins are awarded in blocks, usually 50 at a time, and unless you get extremely lucky, you will not be getting any of those coins. In a pool, you are given smaller and easier algorithms to solve and all of your combined work will make you more likely to solve the bigger algorithm and earn Bitcoins that are spread out throughout the pool based on your contribution. Basically, you will make a more consistent amount of Bitcoins and will be more likely to receive a good return on your investment.

now i did not include the link to this quote because the very next line was a link to the pool he recommends and not sure if that's a good one or not.

nevertheless, the bitcoin calculator states Average generation time for a block (solo)= 53 days.

so the calculator is somewhat misleading as it cannot calculate your chances of hitting that 50 bitcoin block, it simply assumes you do every x# days. ( i had 53 in here since i had that plugged in at the time)

perhaps others can clarify.

dyna mo · 03-28-2013, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Value is based on what people are willing to pay.

that's correct, but the term i used was *economy*, i wasn't sure if he was referring to that?

dyna mo · 03-28-2013, 01:29 PM

ok, i see my mistake now. i was looking at that future projections chart wrong. thanks for the headsup!

greg80 · 03-28-2013, 01:37 PM

How can I short bitcoin?

woj · 03-28-2013, 01:39 PM

this might be a stupid question, but if you break even in 3 days? why even sell it in the first place? why not fill an entire room with these asic rigs and mine 1000s of bitcoins per day yourself?

mayabong · 03-28-2013, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

this might be a stupid question, but if you break even in 3 days? why even sell it in the first place? why not fill an entire room with these asic rigs and mine 1000s of bitcoins per day yourself?

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/eng...ic-based-miner

MikeRoth · 03-28-2013, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

this might be a stupid question, but if you break even in 3 days? why even sell it in the first place? why not fill an entire room with these asic rigs and mine 1000s of bitcoins per day yourself?

You wouldn't be able to break even on them in 3 days. Maybe the very first ASIC miner did.

The difficulty is already shooting up as more and more ASIC miners come online. The only company that I know of that has them available and has started shipping them in small batches still has a backorder and a wait of 1+ months to get one if you ordered now. Another company butterfly labs hasn't even begun shipping them yet and even if you ordered one now you wouldn't receive it for 2-3 months or more. In the meantime while your waiting for one the difficulty will continue to increase from people who already have ASIC miners from ordering from the earlier batches.

There is no way to really tell what the difficulty and profitability will be 2-3 months from now. But let's pretend like you got your 60Ghash/sec ASIC miner today. You would probably be able to mine ~3.9 bitcoins a day. So lets call it $351/day. In 2-3 months the market will be flooded with ASIC miners causing the difficulty to sky rocket. Would the difficulty double, triple, or quadruple in 3 months time? Who knows. But that would knock your potential profitability down dramatically. And that is assuming bitcoins stay at ~$90 per coin.

dyna mo · 03-28-2013, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Value is based on what people are willing to pay.

i'm going to throw myself on my sword re: my comment, lemme know if it flies or dies!

ok, the total computational power is related to the creation of bitcoins. so i looked at it like the dollar, the treasury creates more dollars and that impacts the value of the dollar right?

so wouldn't the # of bitcoins mined over a certain period of time do the same thing to bitcoin value?

dyna mo · 03-28-2013, 03:20 PM

i know i must be having a major brain fart on this, i do have something else pressing on my mind right now.
lol

MikeRoth · 03-28-2013, 03:37 PM

There will only ever be 21,000,000 bitcoins. Once the 21 million are mined that is it. It's not like the U.S. Government which just creates more "money" willy nilly to pretend the economy is doing better.

The total computational power is only related to the difficulty which is used to control the amount of bitcoins mined. This prevents all 21 million bitcoins from being mined in a short period of time.

Also the amount of bitcoins per block halves every 4 years. "Blocks are mined every 10 minutes, on average and for the first four years (210,000 blocks) each block included 50 new bitcoins. As the amount of processing power directed at mining changes, the difficulty of creating new bitcoins changes. This difficulty factor is calculated every 2016 blocks and is based upon the time taken to generate the previous 2016 blocks"

Paul · 03-29-2013, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeRoth

There will only ever be 21,000,000 bitcoins. Once the 21 million are mined that is it. It's not like the U.S. Government which just creates more "money" willy nilly to pretend the economy is doing better.

The total computational power is only related to the difficulty which is used to control the amount of bitcoins mined. This prevents all 21 million bitcoins from being mined in a short period of time.

Also the amount of bitcoins per block halves every 4 years. "Blocks are mined every 10 minutes, on average and for the first four years (210,000 blocks) each block included 50 new bitcoins. As the amount of processing power directed at mining changes, the difficulty of creating new bitcoins changes. This difficulty factor is calculated every 2016 blocks and is based upon the time taken to generate the previous 2016 blocks"

What will happen once all the bitcoins are mined? Will the price then go up and down based on speculation or demand a bit like gold?

MrMaxwell · 03-29-2013, 12:49 AM

Wow I had no idea that only 1/3-1/2 of them exist at this point
http://blockexplorer.com/q/totalbc

03-28-2013, 01:03 PM	#58
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,588	there ya go, Mike has the experience on it, thanks! looks like this site gives a 14 day out guestimate on the difficulty http://bitcoindifficulty.com/ so in 14 days there will be a 5% increase in total computing power/economy, which means after the anticipated dip this weekend there should be a super nice uptick in value eh? fair to say?? Last edited by dyna mo; 03-28-2013 at 01:06 PM..

03-28-2013, 01:15 PM	#59
Serge Litehead Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind the scenes Posts: 5,190	no, value is not driven by difficulty __________________ SilverCrocodile.com Adult web design since '05

03-28-2013, 01:37 PM	#67
greg80 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,644	How can I short bitcoin? __________________ Say no to GoDaddy and high renewal prices! Go with NameSilo - FREE private whois for life, $8.99 regstrations and renewals. Free redirects, emails, great control panel and more! NameSilo rocks!

03-28-2013, 01:39 PM	#68
woj <&(©¿©)&> Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 47,882	this might be a stupid question, but if you break even in 3 days? why even sell it in the first place? why not fill an entire room with these asic rigs and mine 1000s of bitcoins per day yourself? __________________ Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000 Affiliate program tools: Hosted Galleries Manager Banner Manager Video Manager Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip Manager

03-28-2013, 03:37 PM	#73
MikeRoth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Washington DC Posts: 361	There will only ever be 21,000,000 bitcoins. Once the 21 million are mined that is it. It's not like the U.S. Government which just creates more "money" willy nilly to pretend the economy is doing better. The total computational power is only related to the difficulty which is used to control the amount of bitcoins mined. This prevents all 21 million bitcoins from being mined in a short period of time. Also the amount of bitcoins per block halves every 4 years. "Blocks are mined every 10 minutes, on average and for the first four years (210,000 blocks) each block included 50 new bitcoins. As the amount of processing power directed at mining changes, the difficulty of creating new bitcoins changes. This difficulty factor is calculated every 2016 blocks and is based upon the time taken to generate the previous 2016 blocks" __________________ ICQ: 64995031

03-28-2013, 12:49 PM	#54
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,588	the BIG factor is the fact that the mining rate is directly tied to the mining activity, when the asic rigs really come on line in the coming months, the # of bitcoins mined per rig will drop significantly. i don't know if i am explaining that right, using the right terms, but i believe that is the gist of what will happen very soon.

03-28-2013, 12:57 PM	#55
Si Such Fun! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 13,900	Has anyone found out what is actually "mined" yet? Just wondering

03-28-2013, 01:29 PM	#66
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,588	ok, i see my mistake now. i was looking at that future projections chart wrong. thanks for the headsup!

03-28-2013, 03:20 PM	#72
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,588	i know i must be having a major brain fart on this, i do have something else pressing on my mind right now. lol

03-29-2013, 12:49 AM	#75
MrMaxwell Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 10,057	Wow I had no idea that only 1/3-1/2 of them exist at this point http://blockexplorer.com/q/totalbc Last edited by MrMaxwell; 03-29-2013 at 12:59 AM..