Mutt

If the answer is 'nothing', define 'nothing' and how can something come from nothing?

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muchodollarz

The Big Bang was the last universe exploding......and our universe will grow till the next Big Bang....that's it....

Best-In-BC

4D universe that collapsed in on its self causing our begins, also known as the big bang

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GhengisBong

Hi,

I do not know the facts of the big bang theory, but I think it implies that matter and other element existed. So elements existed and the fusion or big bang created "something" - again idk really and dont care

Now, I just took my father to the ER and I didn't have my Smartphone and saw a bible. I read genesis and it pretty much stated that nothing came from nothing.

Mutt

link me to an article about this theory. i cant even comprehend what a 4D universe is or looks like. i've heard the 4th dimension explained but i don't really understand it.

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babymaker

I used to think of this too, but a word of advise, don't think about it too hard, your brain will impoled esspecially if you are smart. I try and not think of this question now :D Most people are too dumb to even comprehend something like this.

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Mutt

whose theory is this? and even if our universe developed from another universe how did ANY universe start from 'nothing'?

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jmcb420

I would suggest reading Stephen Hawkings book "A Brief History of Time."

It's very well written and easily understandable by anyone with no former education in physics. Hawking explains that before the bb, there was the singularity, which is or was basically the very same thing as what you would find beyond the event horizon of a black hole. (I paraphrased that. A better general understanding can be gained by reading the book.)

So far as something from nothing, you don't need anything to get a lot of things according to quantum and particle physics. On a sub-atomic level there's so much happening so quickly and so randomly that it's possible for something to not exist, then exist, then exist in two places at the same time, then not exist again, or appear somewhere else entirely. The big bang idea is 100% possible.

I'll admit absolute ignorance to the above, however. My own education did not go in that direction, and out of high school I made it a priority to avoid math as much as possible in college. I wish I hadn't, because I'd really love to understand more about subatomic physics.

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beerptrol

You talking about cbs?

Mutt

Me too, and I did read Hawkings explanation and it's beyond what I can understand, unless you have a real good grasp on quantum physics even if you do the reading it won't make much sense to you. Unfortunately.

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AdultKing

nothing existed before the big bang, not even time, therefore there wasn't even a "before the big bang" because time didn't exist before the big bang.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Kind of like, if god created the universe, who created god?



ADG

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Eggzacktly

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Best-In-BC

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brassmonkey

friction then the pop roll over fall asleep

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JockoHomo

God farted and the universe was born. Simple as that really.

Relentless

The universe is a singularity that explodes outward until it reaches its limit and then snaps back to a solitary point of singularity before exploding outward again. It has always existed and followed that cyclical process. There is no start or end to a circle.

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edgeprod

The best way I can explain it is this: imagine a 1D world (a single line), where you can only move forward or backward. This is "one dimension": length. Now imagine a 2D world (a grid/graph), where you can move forward and backward, but also side to side: length and width. Next, imagine a 3D world, where you can move forward or backward, side to side, and also up and down. This would be akin to giving three-dimensional coordinates (x, y, z) as in "3 miles west, 5 miles south, and 50 feet in the air".

Now, let's expand it to 4D, by adding time. If you gave me a place in three dimensions to meet you, you might say:

Meet me in the building at the corner of 31st street (width) and 5th avenue (length), on the 12th floor (height)

I'd arrive there, but who knows when? I'd have to wait indefinitely for you to arrive, or vice versa. Now, let's add a FOURTH dimension (time):

Meet me in the building at the corner of 31st street (width) and 5th avenue (length), on the 12th floor (height), at 3:00pm (time).

Now I know exactly WHERE and WHEN to meet you.

edgeprod

"Nothing" isn't really an acceptable answer, but to understand why, you have to understand what makes up the "something" we experience. Space, where we live and interact with everything else, is not possible to separate from time, which is intrinsically linked to space, and called "space-time" when talked about in concert. The important thing to understand here is that without time there is no space, and without space there is no time.

Because of this, you're asking about "before" in a context where there is no "before". Time did not exist, so you can't have "what happened before 2:00pm on Thursday" if time itself didn't exist then; it'd be a nonsensical answer.

Time came into being with space itself, which formed the laws of physics and the reality we know. Until that clock started, there was no fundamental meaning of TIME, in that you wouldn't just look at your watch and count seconds -- seconds didn't exist. So, until space-time was "born," neither had any paradigm to relate to.

I know this is probably more confusing, but it is what it is.

The leading theories on the HOW are even more mind-bending, but I will explain them if you're truly interested.

jmcb420

We in the GFY Physics Department approve this message.

By the way, welcome to the GFY Physics Department.

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Alex1776

Always the know-it-all

Minte

We can all be absolute experts on this subject.


The person that types in the LARGEST FONT probably will win.

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dyna mo

i just had a big bang.

edgeprod

Recent data from NASA's WMAP survey show a flat universe that will not contract. More likely, our universe will experience an eventual heat death. As all matter is pulled eventually and inexorably into black holes, the Hawking radiation from the black holes will gradually dissipate until nothing is left. This is the heat death of the universe

jmcb420

By 'heat death' do you mean the eventual dissipation of process that produce heat? Or a fall into disorder that raises the universal temperature? I've heard the arguments on both sides of the table, and I like the icy universe idea. Eventually all the hydrogen and lighter elements will be gone, stars will no longer be born, the remaining will die, black holes clean up the leftovers, then each other, until only one remains.

And that kind of delivers you right back to the singularity...

I have to say though, I think the term 'big bang' is misleading. I'll bet the expansion was silent. I just imagine it that way.

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edgeprod

I mean the eventual dissipation of all matter and energy. The process would be that stars would burn out, with larger stars going supernova or turning into black holes. All matter would eventually either succumb to the pull of one black or another, or would dissipate naturally in the case of energy. Thermal readings at this point would be fairly uniform, and low. Then, Hawking radiation would kick in, making even the black holes themselves dissipate. This would result in a cold, dark universe consisting of virtually nothing. That is the likely ultimate fate of the universe.

The exact opposite of a singularity, really.

EddyTheDog

That's the way I understand it as well - The hardest thing for me to grasp though is infinity - It makes my head hurt...

ilnjscb

You don't want to know the answer to this question - see Philip K Dick death.

edgeprod

Don't confuse "infinite" with "has no end". All an "infinite" universe means is that there is no point in the universe that you can go three feet to the left, and physics will work differently. It's more of a shape thing than a size thing. The universe is flat, and without defined boundaries. Other universes "outside" of the context of ours are in differently defined space, but coexist side-by-side (and, in fact, it's theorized that collisions between these universes caused the birth of ours). An infinitely-large universe would preclude this, so clearly it isn't a definitely of space as we think about it normally.

EddyTheDog

I understand that our universe is not infinite - Its the thought there are infinite universes - Think about statistics and infinity - Not only does everything possible exist there must be infinite number of them...

There are an infinite number of universes with us having this conversation on infinite GFYs - That's where my head starts hurting.....

2MuchMark

Hi Mutt,

The 4th dimension is sometimes considered to be time. So for example, let's say you want to meet a friend on a street corner. You might specify a location of a building which is on the corner of Street X (1) + the corner of Street Y (2) + the floor of the building Z (3), and then finally the date and time of the meeting (T). X+Y+Z+T = the location of the meeting.

However, more modern theory combines space and time into a single unit, called Spacetime. There is a really go primer on the subject at this URL : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

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edgeprod

Great minds think alike!


Who does there have to be infinite universes? I don't believe that to be true. You may be confusing the multiverse in quantum physics with the actual propagation of universes in real space.

bronco67

Two and a Half Men

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lakerslive

U guys dont know SHIET PERIOD. U werent even born billions of years ago. so stfu.

TheSquealer

</thread closed!>

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jmcb420

The billions of years joke aside, I've actually enjoyed the ideas and opinions of those in here more than any I've heard outside of here while discussing this issue.

I won't say anyone in here is the next Hawking, but there are a few people in this thread who really have a grasp on the subject and they have a far better grasp than most do.

I say rock right the fuck on, GFY. This thread is a great example of intense knowledge and reasoning existing in a place you wouldn't expect to find that kind of knowledge or reasoning.

It almost restores my faith in humanity. Almost.

I for one, am happy to have been here for it.

Now back to my regularly scheduled beer.

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adultmobile

As someone noted, the topic asks what "before" the singularity, which implies there was time before the start of time as we measure now, it is like talk of a division by zero.

Let someone understand this topic himself. I do not believe it is possible to explain it to others, without include the math. Or audience should understand the math, and so already know what you talk about.
Explaining it is a matter of make examples, to compare with something already in the mind of reader. For example a concert in that place at that time to explain x,y,z + time = 4D. Now, let explain 6D or 11D (actually our universe got that), there is no any way to explain this by example. As well as explain quantum stuff. In fact, these behave different from anything anyone could have experience or expect. Must forget experience and common sense, and apply the math.

Said this, I only believe in reading the actual talk between scientists - anything else give a false sense of understanding. Let's say it is like read real ICQ chats between site owners, so the plain truth in bro language, versus an article or press release, so the fake propaganda in easy English.

The real science texts it can somewhat understood by googling each term you don't understand, then you find a wikipedia or else resource about it - there you may find more terms you don't know and google it back and so on, like expanding a puzzle.

I do have science background but not enough to have a salary for just write about this stuff, unlike academics. Much like others who posted here, I fund my science via pussy pimping.

Let me post a few selected texts about the topic, pre and post big-bang, what was before and how we pass from before and after it:

Need to think in terms of string theory and branes:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1305.2809v2.pdf

Do not forget Dark Energy and Dark Matter:
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1309/1309.5707.pdf

Loop quantum cosmology string theory pre and post big bang:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1312.2385v1.pdf

Another nice one on loop quantum cosmology:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1305.2344v1.pdf

big-bang as the collision of two parallel branes (I second that):
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1306.6582v2.pdf

Description of the Big Crunch-Big Bang transition:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1209.1068v2.pdf

But there's several theories, no one won consensus yet:

big crunch <-> big bang transition as a bounce:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1312.0739v1.pdf

quantum big crunch to big bang transition:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1209.5222v1.pdf

Holographic Origin of the Big Bang from 5D space-time:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1309.1487v2.pdf

Another guy thinks our universe came from a collapsed 5D:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1211.6326v4.pdf

Double Field Theory Cosmology (pre and post big bang):
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1307.0159v3.pdf

Theory of universe not originating from big bang singularity:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1311.4051v1.pdf

Have a good read, even just understanding 3% of above texts it may give more insight than any propaganda video documentary or gossip magazine article.

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baddog

This is rather inane.

dyna mo

Antonio

Before the Big Bang? I think Freaks and Geeks

Robbie

There was nothing before I was here.

And everytime I blink my eyes, all "reality" is gone for a few milliseconds. And of course it all disappears while I sleep.

I would like to thank all of you for being part of this reality that I created in my mind...

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Grapesoda

it's a math thing Mutt... before the bang there was no time, as we measure time.

MaDalton

and thats why Religion was invented. lean back, trust in god and dont worry...

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Lichen

What were there before god?

If the answer is 'nothing', define 'nothing' and how can something come from nothing?

dyna mo

here's how nothing in this sense was explained to me:

the cake analogy.

i want a cake. i have all the ingredients for a cake, a cake pan to put them in and an oven to bake it in.
but until i mix those ingredients in the proper ratio, adding the ingredients in the proper order, and cook it, i have nothing. no cake.

this was the case pre-bb, a lot of particles, etc, but at some point, particles mixed, combined, smashed, created friction, etc. to create the proper ratio and environment neccessary for the bb.

TheSenator

This may answer your question.

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