joepusher

I'm selling my paysite JoePusher.com but I'm looking for some expert opinions on what the value is.

ccbill revenue is about $2,500 every month. I don't promote the site at all. I also, have never done any upselling. That means its wide open for someone to get busy with it.

Online since 2001. Almost 300 original, real amateur pov scenes, with exclusive amateur girls. Not pornstars or agency girls. None of the content has been licensed out yet either, so there's a goldmine for someone to license content packages if they want to.

site has monthly subscriptions, download to own, pay-per-view, webcam, and a physical product store, all integrated with ccbill custom billing.

Any expert opinions?

lucas131

i start with 100dollars ... umm, i mean, have luck!

Markul

1. The short answer is: What someone will pay.

2. The long answer is complicated, but let's assume that the CCBill account is handed over with the sale. I'd look at it like this:

A. I would pay no more than 18 months of revenue (that is income minus all costs, including ccbill costs, hosting, domain, marketing etc but excluding any HR costs).

or.

B. 6-8 months of turnover if I can't get the info I need to do A.

plus:

C. Any exclusive content the site has I would have to look at to evaluate, that's a tough one, because unless you have some very special content that value is probably closer to very little than most sellers / producers would like to admit. And then the more special it is, I need to factor in what I can earn vs. how much it would cost to produce new stuff.

and

D. Any non exclusive content that the site has that is produced in the last year, valued depending on the licenses and quality. Ie. can I recycle it for my own paysites.

Any physical products (I see you have DVD's) I'd not even know wtf to do with unless it came with a solid contact that could dropship it for me. Even then, the value of this sort of thing has probably deteriorated at the same rate that blockbuster has the last couple of years.

So the long answer is probably: Less than what you want. I've had people ask $xx,xxx for something only to come back 6 months later and say how about $x,xxx

But you might be lucky (see pt. 1) and find some big company that needs to branch out in your niche and then they just pay more than they would have to so they don't need to spend time building the site.

And I am sure there are people smarter/more experienced than me that has a better formula, but off the top of, that's how I'd approach it.

arock10

10-14 months profit without any other info

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joepusher

Thanks for your detailed response.

That's more or less what I hear as far as the site being worth some multiple of months x revenue. The thing is that it doesn't take into account all of the exclusive content and the quality of the site, and the name that's been built up over the years. Every scene on my site is exclusive with girls that can't be found anywhere else. I never bought any content from anyone.

For example my question is:
If there are 2 websites with the same exact revenue, but site A has 300 exclusive scenes and expensive programming put into it, with a good design and known brand, and site B has 40 non-exclusive licensed scenes and a wordpress them, are both sites supposed to still be worth the same amount?

It just seems like it doesn't make sense, because I could make more just by licensing or selling all of my content by itself and still own the site in the end.

joepusher

What other info would they need?

I understand the 10-14 months thing, but I could just wait 10-14 months and bring in the same money and still own the site.

Markul

You are welcome.

About website A & B. They don't have the same value for sure, that's why I wrote that content comes into play and anyone willing to pay the same for those two would be either ignorant or new.

But consider that the CMS the site has usually is worthless to the buyer, because unless it's the same that is being used in the buying organization it's going to be replaced and in doing so, the design usually is too. Unless of course if the current design is top notch (not saying yours isn't btw!) and meets the line that company goes for and knows works AND that the current design files are available in proper built PSD files so templates can be made in the new CMS. Well you get my meaning here.

So at the end of the day, it really comes down to pt. 1.

If you can do better with licensing or selling the content then do that. You can probably still sell the site. Or just try and sell the site first, maybe someone snags it at the price you feel is right and then all is well

arock10

Exclusive content isn't really exclusive any more if its been live on the internet, at least for as long as you've been around. While content does have some value, its typically far less then what was originally spent on it. Also these programs that have been around for 10 years have a tendency to have old SD content, at least partially, which is worth nothing.

The 10-14 months takes into account the content value.

But yes, the entire thing with adult is you can hold it for another 10-14 months. Unless it dies off. But if its stable, well, that is the reason why you don't see many small programs for sale as its pointless to sell.

Again, you see it as "I can just hold it for 10-14 months and make the same money" while a buyer will see it as "I have to wait 10-14 months before breaking even during which google algorithms will change 500 times, affiliates will continue to leave the industry, porn will get stolen even more, passwords will be leaked, potential hacking, etc etc etc AND then I still have to turn a profit after this time frame"

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ezgirl

I will comment on the content. The content looks dated to me, even though your website touts "updates" in January 2014 it looks like old to me. No one is shooting 1080i since about three - four years ago, and frankly some looks like standard in wide format. When I click on images they look like screen caps to me. Same content looks to me like it has been re-purposed on numerous "e-books" extensively marketed on different sites including Amazon and same content on your clips4sale store. I assume it is also available on certain tube sites and other clip stores. So it doesn't look so exclusive to me and you didn't say anything about all these other content outlets being a part of the deal to sell the website, which you claim to have exclusive content. In fact much of your pitch deals with the exclusivity of your content. We all understand legacy content being a part of an established website, but I don't see any new content so it looks to me like old content being recycled as updates. I think you have a great name, great niche, everyone knows who you are but content is dated and over exposed. Does "Joe Pusher" brand go with the deal? Does ownership of the content go with the deal? I don't see how you can sell the website but retain selling rights to the same "exclusive" content through other venues. You might want to clear that up.

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fuzebox

And yet here you are

Sly

For the most total money, let it die out. You would receive checks for years so long as you take care of minor issues.

For the most money now, sell for a 10-12 month deal, if you can get one.

That's just the way it is. Very few people are going to pay more than a year in revenue for a site that they have no emotional attachment to and are going to need to invest more time and money into in order to make back their cash quicker.

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pr0phet

It took a guy about 2 weeks to sell a $50.00 package of fresh New Orleans party content. There isn't a lot of buying going on for the small guys.

Take the first decent offer you get and hope you don't get screwed over.

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NaughtyRob

Indeed VERY little buying going on, but for this stuff I think its a great pickup for an established program that can plug it in and make the money back quickly.

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minimouse

How does one contact you joepusher?

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joepusher

Thanks. That's more or less what I was thinking too. I'm just trying to weigh everything and get some opinions on what other people think the site is worth.

joepusher

You wrote a lot of stuff. It's mostly nonsense, but I'll answer everything you said just in case someone else might read what you wrote and think it's true.

My content is not all old and rehashed. I shot a lot of scenes in 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, and so on all the way back. When I changed cms a few years ago a lot of the older scenes got mixed in with the newer updates, so everything isn't in exact chronological order.

The photos that you mentioned are screencaps created by the cms. I do have high res of most of my shoots, but I've just been lagging on uploading them to the site.

As far as your comment about 1080i, 1080p, or hd vs sd, in reality the viewers don't even give a fuck. The type of porn fan who's looking for amateur content is looking for girls he hasn't seen before. Over the years I've gotten thousands of emails from fans, and they ask all kinds of questions, but you know what they've never asked? They've never asked about my camera. I could go back to shooting in sd, and they would be just as happy.

About the content being exclusive. Exclusive means that it's my content, and I haven't licensed it out for any one else to use. The clips4sale store that you mentioned, and all the rest like amazon, hotmovies, aebn, etc, are all my own accounts. I would actually throw all that in to the deal if someone bought the site, but I just didn't mention it because I'm just looking for some opinions on what people think the site itself is worth, and I didn't want to make it confusing. So again, the content is exclusive. Send me the links to the tube sites that have all my scenes, since you said it. I can't find my stuff on any tube sites.

So just to clarify, yes I'm interested in selling the whole thing including all the content, brand, site, dvd titles, etc. So now since, I told you all that, do you an idea of what you think it's worth? Or did you just say all that stuff for nothing?

joepusher

and maybe I'll be here again this time next year.

joepusher

I would for sure just sit on it and keep collecting checks, before I would sell for that 10-12 month thing.

joepusher

Thanks for the props. I think the same thing. If the right buyer who understands the amateur porn market bought the site, they could blow it up big time. I would even like to sell to a bigger company and then keep recruiting girls and shooting the site, but just not have to deal with all the hassles of running it.

joepusher

my email is [email protected]

joepusher

other than, I would assume that whoever buys it, is not just buying it to let it sit for a year and just make the same money that I'm making. I would think that they would put it in their program and send massive traffic and affiliate marketing. Probably break even much quicker than what you are saying.

AdultB2B

As I may have mentioned when we connected, the unfortunate thing is that people don't pay that much for content anymore. Sales are based on $ multiples and the multiples are not near what they used to be.

Let me know if I can answer any other questions for you.

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AdultB2B

I would agree. It all comes down to how quickly you want your cash.

For this amount of cash I would just hold onto it if I were you.

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AdultB2B

Joe, if I had a dollar for every person who came to my company with a site that "if someone else put more time into it, they could blow it up big time" I'd have a lot more dollars.

Unfortunately people buy what they see. NOBODY is buying blue sky. In fact, quite the opposite. The buyers will always tell you the skies are cloudy these days, even if you have a very healthy, outstanding, money making property.

That's not to say that you can't get a lot of money for a property that is making a ton of money. But it's certainly harder to do so than it was previously.

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arock10

The 10-14 months is including this. You can't sell adult sites based on potential. What I tell everyone who tries to sell on potential is to just put the effort in to achieve the potential and then sell. A big affiliate program would rather just pay a lot less and only buy the content as they have the resources to just build their own site with it inside of dealing with a unique cms and different setup.

Also typical you'd include all the related accounts that go with it (c4s, aebn, etc) as that would increase your overall revenue. Plus if you are selling it as exclusive you would kind of have to

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joepusher

Ok then, if the content is no big deal, and people don't really pay that much for content, then can I just sell the site without the content? I mean that as a serious question, because I might consider that. I also mean to point out that it can't be both ways.

arock10

It's not "no big deal" it's just worth significantly less then production costs
And no selling it separate would not work either. Then you'd just be in the scripts and design biz

joepusher

All of that is understandable, but I still haven't gotten an answer to the main question that I'm asking.

When you place a value on a website, how do you account for the differences in the content and extra assets of the site? It sounds like your saying that it's just 10-14 months regardless of any other factors. 20 scenes or a million scenes, it doesn't matter, it's just 10-14 months no matter what. If that's the case, then could I just include like 20 scenes and still sell for the same price?

joepusher

wouldn't I be in the scripts, design, domain, traffic, and ccbill account with active members business?

woj

revenue is what counts, everything else is worth small percentage of what you think it is...

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joepusher

I don't think any certain thing, as far as what it's worth. That's why I'm asking how do you account the other factors such as amount of content, etc. Could I just keep all or most of my content and just sell the site for the same price I would get anyway? Either the content and other assets are worth something or not. It can't be both ways.

Markul

Sure it can be both ways.

Besides you can't sell the site w.o. content because the rebills would flatline and I also think that's against CCBills terms to sell a membership and then yank all the content away. You would be violating the "agreement" you made with the buyer.

The reality is this:

If you can't sell your site for what you are asking, you are asking too much. It's simple
business acumen.

That's just the thing. If you product comes with X amount of members generating a certain amount of revenue, you can't remove all the content and then think that revenue is going to be maintained for the next x months the buyer needs to recoup his investment. That won't happen.

So if your site has 10000 scenes, then that is what you needed to generate the X members. You can't just yank the scenes and go: Up until now, I've had this amount of members. So you can buy the shell and the members, but not the content that comes with it and that I used to generate the members.

And it isn't just 10-14 months of turnover, that might be a good rule of thumb but every single paysite you buy you need to evaluate differently and every buyer is different because they don't all operate their paysites in the same way.

As I said in the beginning, there is only one short / right answer to these kind of questions and that is what someone is willing to pay. If you are worried that you are selling to low, price high and reduce the price.

Or use a broker, I can recommend hitting up someone like Baddog. I am sure he can help you put a price tag on and sell it

woj

Lets say based on revenue the site is worth $25k, and the content is worth another $25k...

so you can sell site with content for $50k...

or you can buy some non-exclusive content and put it on the site and sell just the site and keep your exclusive content... then as long as the site still continues to make $2500/month consistently, you will get $25k for it... if on the other hand, the income drops to $1000/month you will get $10k for it...

(this is a bit oversimplified and numbers are made up just to illustrate a point)

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joepusher

All of that sounds logical. And just to clarify, it's not that I have a certain exact price that I want to sell it for. What I'm trying to figure out is how to price it correctly, and then after that I can decide if it's worth it for me, or would I rather just hold on to it. If the most that I could get would be 10-14 months of revenue, then I would just not sell it, because I have way too much stuff to sell out like that.

joepusher

Thanks. That's what I've been trying to find out. So do you know how I can come to a $ value for the content and other assets? Like do I need to get it appraised by an expert or something like that?

Markul

If you don't need to sell it and don't have a lot of emotions invested in it, then it's probably most sound to just milk it for as long as you can + try and sell the content.

But if you have some sort of attachment to it (and I can understand why you would!) and or need to sell it, you might want to find someone solid that can carry on the torch so to say

NEW XTC

I saw this coming when I read the original post...the 10-14 month thing. You might also find that the typical 10-14 month buyer would want to pay you in - installments.


If I were you I would hit up the netvideos dude or backroom casting couch owner

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fris

prob 12 months revenue, if that 2500 a month is a long term revenue, not just past 2 months.

so 30,000$ roughly.

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joepusher

It's a toss up. On one hand it's very tempting to just cash it out and not have to think about running a website anymore, but I just can't do it for so cheap that it's stupid.

Would it be possible for me to sell the site and full internet rights to everything, but still keep my brand for everything else, such as dvds, cable/satalite, etc? That might be an option that I'm interested in. The internet people would get what they want at the price they want, and I would still keep my brand and money making ability for other things besides the internet.

Markul

I am sure that could work with the right people.

ITraffic

you ware waiting for an answer that you want to hear, that no one is going to give you. you can keep posting and fishing for someone to give you that answer or face objective reality.

joepusher

or I can just do whatever the fuck I feel like doing.

what would make you think that a fat feminine looking bitch, with a bright yellow shirt and a girl haircut could even tell somebody like me something.

woj

there are no "experts", it's whatever someone would be willing to pay for it...

my guess would be in the ballpark of $50k for everything including content, revenue, brand, etc... maybe slightly more if you are lucky, but realistically you are looking at less than $50k...

so you aren't going to get any significant $$ for it... like others have said best to run it into the ground....

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NEW XTC

serious buyers might read a post like this and think - forget doing biz with this angry mean guy...you may want to edit it if there is still time

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joepusher

that wasn't directed at you. some jackass came on here running his mouth for no reason.

NEW XTC

I know it wasn't directed at me - i work with a lot of these porn b2b type buyers, its very corporate these days they like polite society

but really bccouch guy might be a good potential buyer- hes loaded too

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joepusher

alright thanks

joepusher

yeah, the revenue is long term for years. always about 2500/month not counting others things like dvds, etc.

ezgirl

You said ?You wrote a lot of stuff. It's mostly nonsense.?
Read on, looks like what I said was true:

?My content is not old and rehashed?
Your words, not mine. But then you went on to write older scenes got mixed in with the newer updates. So I was spot on when I saw older content presented as ?updates?.

I noted the stills looked like screencaps, you responded ?The photos that you mentioned are screencaps created by the cms. I do have high res of most of my shoots, but I've just been lagging on uploading them to the site.? Again, spot on.

I commented the video looked like old format, you didn?t dispute that but responded your members didn?t care. Spot on again.

I discussed fact your content is not exclusive to the site and your deal needs to clarify if all the content outlets are included in the deal, along with your brand. You conceded all that and offered all of it for sale with the website. Spot on again.

Referring to all the different venues the content is available I went on to say ? I assume it is also available on certain tube sites and other clip stores.? You denied your content was on tube sites, a quick search and I could find none on tube sites. I did, however, find your content for sale on hotmovies.com and videoclips.com aebn.com in addition to c4s. You are correct not on tube sites, I am spot on content is on multiple clipstores.

You say content not licensed, that was not what I said. Your content is not exclusive to joepusher.com, it is all over the place as described above. Again, spot on.

Then you finished with ?So just to clarify, yes I'm interested in selling the whole thing including all the content, brand, site, dvd titles, etc. So now since, I told you all that, do you an idea of what you think it's worth? Or did you just say all that stuff for nothing?? I offered spot on comment on your content, which you feel distinguishes your site from others, and I believe is dated and over exposed. It was you who asked for opinions. You clarified a great deal, offering much more with the deal than was originally described. That does not look like nothing to me.

Oh, you forgot, I also said ?I think you have a great name, great niche, everyone knows who you are but content is dated and over exposed.? I don?t know you personally, I have no ill will toward you, I just offered my opinion in response to your invitation.

Best wishes on your sale, too bad you you were offended, I meant no offense.

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AdultB2B

No Joe, then you have no site, now do you?

I mean that content by itself isn't worth that much, especially anything that is at all dated.

People take the content into account when figuring prices.

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