JimmyStephans

I'm looking for a few informed guesses about the pay rates new amateur girls get on sites like GirlsDoPorn.com, AmateurAllure.com, BackdoorCastingCouch.com, ExploitedCollegeGirls.com and others.

The girls seem to be total beginners / amateurs in the college age range and not all from porn valley.

I ask because my stuff is totally softcore nudity (no sex, no toys, very soft) and my applications have sort of died over the past few months. I pay what I think is decent ($200 hour, shoot 8-10 hour days - so $2000 a day) and don't get enough applicants to have new models as often as those places seem to.

Just makes me wonder what they must be paying to attract such applicants.

Any estimates?

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marcop

Those sites you mention pay the girls really well. They generally want brand new girls, preferably girls who'll never do another porn scene. I know that some of those sites you mentioned pay the girls $2,000 and up... $3,000 and up for anal.

The m.o. of sites like that is to pay the girl's agent a much bigger fee (say, $500 instead of $100) to guarantee they're getting the girl's first scene. After getting $2k+ for a vanilla b/g scene they're not going to want to take $800 for working with some random meat puppet on a filthy sofa, so often don't do much if any more scenes before returning to whatever flyover state they're from.

Mutt

I'm a bit obsessed with GirlsDoPorn - there's a long thread on Freeones forum about them and how they recruit and what they pay. I answered one of their recruiting ads on Craigslist posing as a cute girl, the recruiter was pretty vague and said I'd make up to 5K.
They pay between $1500-3000 from what I gather, first class air ticket and put them up in the hotel room they shoot in.

They recruit under the name BubbleGum Casting, it's slight shady, they're set up like it's a mainstream photography studio - I assume this gets girls interested, then later they throw the porn offer at them. BackroomCasting uses the same approach. When you need cute first time girls to do hardcore in numbers it's probably the only way that will produce the results you need.

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The Porn Nerd

Amazing - and "pornstars" are getting $400 for a shoot.

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Jim_Gunn

If you're paying a whopping $2,000 per day for softcore shoots and you're having trouble getting models then there's something seriously wrong with the wording of your ad or where it's placed. You're not losing out due to price.

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JimmyStephans

Found and interesting article:

http://www.uproxx.com/filmdrunk/2013...g-traffickers/

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Barefootsies

Agreed. At a fraction of that, and the promise of recurring opportunities (as I reuse models) I get them lining up at the door if you have a properly worded ad with a few bucks for minimal time thrown in there. No shortage of ladies looking to work a few hours versus a week at MceeDees for the same money.

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"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

JimmyStephans

Could be right... I guess I need to get away from the old standby sources of Craigs and Backpage.

As for wording that could be right too... MUTT mentioned BubbleGum and I thought I actually provided better info... (but its honest info)

http://truebabesmodels.com/

These methods worked for many years (site is 10 years old) but sort of suddenly just stopped getting as many applications and the ones that do come in seem to be lower quality girls.

Another photographer I speak week blames it on my no tattoo policy...

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mineistaken

I thought the same thing, especially when he said extra softcore, no toys etc...
2000$ for a day is A LOT and puts him way ahead of standard rates.

Alice22

Agreed.
You pay much more than anyone i know, so there is something wrong with how you do it.

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JimmyStephans

THE TEST:

I ran a funky test from Thursday to Sunday here in Denver. I had bee seeing many, many ads from guys posting on CL or BP asking for private photos, models for amateur work in the home, private collectors making home videos, etc. Many of the ads I would see over and over.

So, starting Thursday I posted ads on both with photos and links to TrueBabes / TrueBabesModels being very clear to mention photos for website, the decent pay, etc.

Five minutes later I would use a fake account and post some junk ad: "Amateur photographer wants to practice topless and nude photos. Not for resell or website just private collection. $300 cash for 4 hours this weekend!

By Sunday night the TrueBabes related ads had just 4 replies and only one was a cute girl in the age range the ad requested. Two of the four in their 30s saying crap like "I always get carded"....

By Sunday night the "Amateur" ad had 38 replies, 10-12 didn't send photos and didn't reply when I asked for photos, leaving about 25. Of the 25, maybe half were not close to being photogenic (too thick, too many marks, too saggy, etc.)... but it still left around 10 girls worth pointing the camera at in general (but 5-6 with tattoos)...

Leaving, 2-3 that would have been good TrueBabes material if they would have replied to the other ad.

There was zero overlap - meaning no girls messaged both ads.

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mineistaken

You could probably strike a deal with other producers at this rate, they refer you models let's say for 1500$ and you pay producer 500$.

JimmyStephans

I always thought I had to pay more because of being in Colorado. Fairly conservative here and not near as many girls getting naked as when I had the Florida place.

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Robbie

Who? I've never heard of any "pornstar" getting paid that low except for male talent of course.

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Robbie

Dude, I shot all of the stuff for the content company I used to own from 1998 to 2002.

I shot girls in South Carolina, North Carolina, and Georgia.
I NEVER paid more than $250 for a girl to do softcore (and all the girls I shot had never shot before or since).

Being in the Bible belt was ultra-conservative obviously, but is was still no problem getting girls.

Also...amateur girls always THINK that they are supposed to be paid outrageous amounts of money. They thought it was like shooting for Playboy and they should get paid tens of thousands of dollars. lol

You have to sit down and talk to them and make them understand. Also, I'm very good at talking to people. And they can see that I'm honest. That is ESSENTIAL to shooting amateur girls.

Remember, they are scared to death. For all they know you could be some crazed murderer/rapist.

When I was shooting all that stuff, I ran an ad in the regional "stripper magazine".
Every region has a little magazine that is free at the strip clubs and all the clubs in that region advertise in it. And it runs stories about the clubs and features some of the girls each week from different clubs.

I put an ad in that and literally had dozens of girls from 3 states calling me every day looking to pick up an extra couple of hundred bucks of easy money.

I never kept them all day like you are proposing, that would be a nightmare for these amateur girls.

I work fast and would be finished in less than 2 hours on a softcore shoot (to be honest, a solo girl doing softcore is just so damn boring...there's only so many things and positions and angles you can do before your eyes start to close and you fall fast asleep lol).

You should check into that. And change your idea of shooting time.
In less than 2 hours I was able to get the main shoot, plus some foot fetish, smoking, and pissing stuff too.

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mineistaken

I agree, full day of working as a model is tough job.
In retrospective I am just watching documentary about 6 days 12 hours steel mills...

Robbie

Not that it's "tough" at all. It's just that you are trying to capture a girl's sexuality and the excitement of it.

All that shit starts to wear off of both the girl and photographer after about 30 minutes. lol

By the time you hit the 2 hour mark...there isn't a drop of REAL sexuality in the room. And the camera doesn't lie.

If you want to really capture the sexual essence of people on film, you have to work fast, efficiently, and make sure that the atmosphere in the room is fun and sexy.

When you see vids on these mega-sites of girls who are just going through the motions...that's why.

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The Porn Nerd

Sorry, I didn't mean Lisa Ann-type "pornstars" but more of the daily rate for girls in LA. After all, even a girl who's done 4 scenes calls herself a 'pornstar' these days. LOL

"Look Daddy I'm on camera! I'm a STAR!!" LOL

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AaronM

You are WAY over paying. This does 2 things:

1. Potentially pisses off other photographers who may choose to not help you on forums like this.
2. Sets off a "red flag" as being a bullshit company since nobody in their right mind would pay 2k for what you're doing.

The most I have ever paid for a solo shoot, with toys etc... is $1,500.00 and that's VERY rare. If I shoot an 8 hour day for a site like Twisty's then the flat fee I offer is 1k, again for solo work with toys.

There are a lot of factors to consider when recruiting models. Location is a pretty big one as is time of year. I'll give you two examples:

1. One would think that December would be a great time to find new models considering they want more money for Christmas. However, i've found that this is one of the roughest months to recruit new girls.
   
2. For the last 5+ years I've been shooting primarily in Las Vegas. Before moving here I assumed that finding hot models would be super easy. However, since being here, I've discovered that the really hot girls can and do make around 1k per night either stripping, doing bottle service, or hooking...And they aren't putting themselves on the Internet. If I were to offer the same 2 grand you're offering, it would bring in a few more ladies but considering that's more than the average client pays for a solo content order, I'm obviously not going to do that. However, I could offer $500-$600 for the same solo shoots in San Diego, Seattle, Portland, Phoenix, and many other places and get better looking models.

Applications have died down for a few reasons. As far as CL goes, until recently I was able to track a number of things on my CL ads. I could tell which ads performed best, what times the ads were viewed, and track the models through my sites. Before CL made it impossible for me to include my code in the listings, I definitely saw a downward trend in the ads that were even being viewed, let alone clicking my links. I tried different titles, putting dollar figures in the titles, and a few other things. Nothing increased the views on my ads but my conversation ratio stayed about the same.

Now that CL has made their changes, I'm flying blind. I'm pretty sure that very few other people incorporated any tracking into their ads so I had a distinct advantage in recognizing patterns and tweaking my ads and sites accordingly.

I could be wrong but I'm going to attribute a lot of this to the increasingly large number of GWC's out there who are creeping models out. All the ads about "suck my dick off camera" & "private videos" from shit bags don't help legit producers one bit.

Other things to consider...

How often do you change your ads?

Are you including photos? If so, are they watermarked showing that you actually shot and own them? Are they classy or trashy photos?

Are you including other supporting graphics? Think "Club Flyers". Many potential models are attracted to a graphic that shows them everything without having to read the listing itself.

Are you asking them to respond through CL's email system or sending them directly to your site?

I could go on about these things for a long time. The bottom line is trial and error along with doing something different than the bullshit artists out there. Make your ads set you apart.

ezgirl

Very interesting thread. You are paying way, way too much, maybe the rate is so high it makes your applicants suspicious. I see what to me are obviously phony ads offering up to $8,000 for a one hour shoot on craigslist, so girl do get scammed and drop out of the amateur talent pool. I probably pay a little on the low side, but I offer same day cash and I NEVER stiff agents or recruiters, as so many shooters like to do.

Of special interest is the information in this thread about bubblegumcasting, whose ads I have seen all over the country for years and I wondered if they were real because their advertised rates were too high. And it appears to be true that their strategy works - pay high and girls won't work anywhere else because I just had in here my first girl who had worked for them. This girl, a milf, told me they shot her POV, whole thing was about an hour, pay was $1500. So, it is true, they do pay high rates, and they are real. I have heard no complaints about them and seen none on any blogs, forums or elsewhere. But the site seems obscure to me, makes me wonder if they are making any money.

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AaronM

I've done the same kind of thing in multiple cities. The response essentially shows what I briefly mentioned in my last reply. A lot of girls are open to all sort of things when they believe it won't end up online.

Barefootsies

True dat.

I have had plenty willing to do anything and everything for a few bucks as long as it will not go online. Plenty have told me in an interview that they would do anything, and anyone for money as long as it did not end up on a website. It's not that they won't do the material or sex act for cash. They just do not want it on the internet forever.

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The Porn Nerd

But it DOES end up online, doesn't it? So, in the end, the girls are either being scammed/lied to or agree in the end after shown enough cash? The immediate need out-weighing the long-term fears? Do models come back and complain afterwards? I know, model releases, but it seems like such a hassle to deal with newbs all the time.

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AaronM

Not to mention any names.....

There used to be a producer who posted here. Several years back this "mystery man" decided to leave the industry and started talking publicly at various colleges and church groups about his "porn" experiences.

This man and I were friends for a number of years before and after he was "reborn". During this time, we've discussed our difference in recruiting and how that may have impacted the different model responses we've each had.

This person would say as little as possible to the model about the actual work that was being done. His attitude was...and I quote: "By the time they arrive for the shoot, they have already spent the money in their minds. They are not likely to leave when they find out that it includes masturbation on video".

To me, this is simply wrong. Was his approach successful? One could argue that it was as he often had pretty cute college girls to work with. However, according to him, many of those girls later contacted him in tears and begged for the content to be taken down from the Interwebs. It had "ruined their life" etc...

In contrast, I've NEVER had a single model show up on my porch, call, email, or anything else where they were crying or making such claims about the negative impact working with me has caused.

I've had 3 models politely contact me and ask if their content could be taken down. Each one of them acknowledged that they are aware of the release they signed and 2 of them even offered to give compensation. 1 of them paid me back what I had paid her but the content had never been distributed. The other 2 decided to forget about it once I explained that although it could potentially be taken down from the site, the likelihood that it had been copied and redistributed was pretty high.

It's similar to the other thread I started. If you treat models with honestly and respect, you are less likely to have hassles.

johnnyloadproductions

Mike South's article about girlsdoporn

http://www.mikesouth.com/uncategorized/7319-7319/

JimmyStephans

Great reply AaronM.. Thanks.

To answer your questions as best I can.

I change the text of the ads often.

I do use decent photos and they are watermarked. They don't contain heavy details just basics and hoping the girls hit the site.


I have not tried club flyer and that sort of stuff at all.

Replies through to CL or BP system... but the ads have links and my goal has been to get them off CL / BP and the site site to get the data.

Now, referring back to some of the other comments.

I didn't always offer as much. I sort of raised it to separate myself from those amateur style guys / GWCs... but this is not the first time its been suggested to me that it may sound "too good to be true".

A quicky two hour shoot wouldn't do it here. I think a couple of guys may have mis-read some comments. I'm not an amateur and not shooting in an amateur style with a girl in a tiny hotel room. I mentioned amateur style in original and other replies because that was the style of the sites I was asking about - not who I am, or what I was looking for... sorry for that confusion.

I started the thread just wondering why the total number of applicants is down recently and wondering if I other knew why.

Was it because places like GirlsDoPorn pay so much more that new girls think "Fuck $2000 if I'm going to be online I might as well go all the way and make much more".?

Or was it because I have a no tattoo policy and that 99% of the girls these days have tats?

Or, something else?

I'm not stressing for new models - just curious why the overall application quantity and quality seems down last few months.

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AaronM

Looks to me like you and I are doing similar things. There are a few other things that I will not publicly mention....Why should I show my hand to all the competition?

I'd be open to discussing more and bouncing ideas back and forth away from this forum.

ezgirl

Very nice flyer, I like that. I usually put links to web pages, but I like this. I think there are other forces at work here that make the talent pool so shallow, but I don't know for certain. We used to get girls whom I call attention whores, they like being in front of the camera. Now we get girls needing money. The girls whose motivation is strictly money generally don't look as good and certainly are not good performers. I think this devastatingly weak and impotent economy are to blame for that.

The content in those flyers look very nice, how come your site has no preview, or am I blind? I can't imagine anyone signing up without a good preview. Great girls and great pics.

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SmutHammer

If it's an amateur girl, You should be paying less than what the girls in the Valley get. I wouldn't go over 1K a day, even if it included hardcore.


They do for softcore solo scenes.

Tom.K

I hope my girls don't read this thread as next time they will stuck dildos in my forehead. Next day in newspapers: "Horror in very cheap hotel in train station of east Czech village: so-called porn producer found stuck to death with glass objects of Chinese origin. Over 600 stabs applied by angry underpaid wannabe porn star named Sluttiana Blackhole."

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American Psycho

Regardless of the peanut galleries assumptions I do know the solution here.However many here dont want to do biz because i called these princesses sluts so i will oblige your request.

Good luck recruiting your lovely princesses that will do anything with anyone for cash as long as its not on the interweb....

fitzmulti

Aaron is right...you are WAY over paying...
Oh, and Heather has a T in it. {Heaher}

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