TheMaster

time for a rant:

for god's sake, in these rather hard times for paysites, you don't need to make conversions extra shitty by not managing basic things well, like make sure your content doesn't get released before it's available in your member area.

why should people even pay, not only can you find it for free, you can sometimes find it for free days before it's release date

this time it's Brazzers, whose upcoming sites for the next 5 days have already hit the piracy sites, but they are not the only ones, it seems to be a regular problem for Naughty America and sometimes a problem for RK.

so what is it with these programs?
- their servers get hacked
- someone is leaking or selling content to pirates
- they are sending these files to an affiliate who also runs pirate sites

if it's the last reason, if I told some companies before: tag those files, so you can track down who does it, sadly 2 years later... same problem, but with ever declining conversion rates

ok going to promote webcams, because as long as paysites don't get real serious about copyright, their conversions will keep going to shit

5 sec.... to reps telling me how their conversions are doing better than ever

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The Hun

Fully agree! I am surprised about the way copyright violations are dealt with on the online world! In the real world when you steal you'll get fined... online you get a note saying that you have 7 days to stop stealing... which of course is read as: there is no problem keeping it oneline for 7 days...

DBS.US

It's all part of their Pirate Partner Program (PPP)

Send them updates first and the pirates will not take over their sites.

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TheMaster

now that's funny

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lucas131

hm man, i think you got it wrong. it is easier to put few videos up on high traffic site, so people will know your new site very early. then, when you make the site available for promotion, most surfers knows the brand already so affiliates get fucked cause the site is for the surfers not super new and they are cookied already, and also serps are filled with those tube sites. now, few full videos make that you dont need to pay half for the affiliates, so you make much more at the end not fan of it, but its not hard to understand this business model

TheMaster

IMO that's only part of the problem, the biggest problem is companies not going after pirates

some will go after downloaders, which is the wrong solution imo, it doesn't solve the problem, it just gets you some money when you porn shame people into settling + it actually sets a dangerous monetary incentive, your incentive in that case is not to protect your content, but to "catch" as many violations, which could so easily lead to scams

+ it hurts the industry in public opinion, every story of a single mom being ruined because her 17 yo old son downloaded some porn, just enrages people and makes them even less likely to want to pay for what your offer.

you have to go after the relatively small group of people releasing this in the first place:
some you will be able to "pirate shame" into stopping, same tactic some use on downloaders, especially if they just started
others you have to sue, get their data from the file hosts or sue them for it
when you go onto a tube you'll see a ton of pirated videos which are re-encoded with watermark with another domain, which is for instance a white label dating site, that's an open and shut case of somebody stealing, you telling me you can't go after them in that case????

but sadly I have very little hope, because laziness will be the behavior of most paysite owners until they have to close their sites, with a pitstop at "trying not to pay their affiliates" or "blaming affiliates for bad conversions" of course

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TheMaster

going so well that revenue for the US adult industry has shrunk by almost 2/3 from it's high in 2005 according the Xbiz, add to that inflation + a bigger consumer base, and that number looks even worse

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lucas131

yes because 2/3 of people from 2005 could not adapt but yes sure, piracy is bad ... just saying why something is first on tubes before we are able to promote it

TheMaster

no no, this was specifically about videos being on available on file hosts before it's even released in the paysite's member area

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DWB

They pay for quality. They pay to be able to request shoot ideas and have their ideas brought to life. They pay because the site is full of exactly what he wants and he doesn't have to be bothered by annoying pop-ops and banners to get it. They pay because not everyone is a broke ass and can afford to pay for what they enjoy.

The list goes on.

CCSG

pretty much
no different from console hacking
some people have the time and energy to go through the process, because the end result is free games.

others think "if i hack my console, Xbox live/PSN might find out and cancel my account. I like playing online so I wont risk that".

no matter how many pirates there are, there's always some willing customers who support what they like.

Now if piracy ever became easy or less time consuming for the average individual, THEN you have a problem.

The Hun

Isn't that what many sites out there offer these days?

TheMaster

... exactly pretty sure most people can find easy and quick piracy sites these days

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Creatine

See the thing is you can pirate movies but people still pay for Netflix.

40 million pay for it.

People will pay for porn you just need a really good idea.

If you could Crete a service where pay sites can sign up with an API to your site and then whenever someone purchases membership for your site they get membership to all the sites signed up. And everyone took a cut of the earnings.

That's be neat. So basically for the consumer they pay like 6$ a month and get membership to hundreds of pay sites.

Mutt

so you're saying seriously less income coming in and it gets divided among hundreds, what a novel and fantastic idea

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Robbie

To the OP's question:

What happens is that the studio will release a DVD title. People buy the DVD, rip it and upload it to the pirate sites.

The a few weeks later the scenes from that DVD are added to the paysite. But by then the content has already been seen for free by millions of people.



Which is why we don't do DVD's. When I did one, I saw that happen almost instantly.
It wasn't worth it.

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JuicyBunny

I found one recently for Japanese contents. Site is in 4 languages and follows release dates.
Probably they have content up before shops have the releases. What does that tell you?

AdultKing

Creatine knows all about piracy, given that he is a pirate.

MrDeiz

just for the record - big sites like NA, Pornpros, etc having like 70,000-90,000 transactions per month (joins, rebills, refunds, - most of them rebills of course). i've seen those stats, not referring to exact sites though.
some bigger sites like bangbros or kink have even more. do the math now.
this business is still a fortune for big companies

and yeah, porn is harder to sell day after day. i'm starting to move my properties into other fields of e-business. adult is 100% done for me in terms of new ventures

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GregE

That's the main reason why nowadays our members see our new content long before it goes onto DVD.

Happily our DVD's still sell though, albeit nothing like in the days of old.

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TheMaster

that's not the case with Brazzers, NA or RK, they use the reverse model

they might release those scenes on a best off type DVD, but those get released way after the scenes go on the website

but I see how your example would be case with for traditional studios like Wicked or DP

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TheMaster

one day later... Brazzers scenes for 21,22 & 23th March have just been released on pirate sites

wow a full week ahead now

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2MuchMark

Here's a couple of tips:

- Just because tube sites say longer clips get better conversions doesn't mean you have to hand over 10,20,30 minute clips.

- Learn to make real teasers for your sites. A "scene" or "clip" is not a teaser. It's all a freeloader needs to J/O to and click through to another clip.

- Don't give affiliates access to your members area. Give them your promo clips & images, and nothing more.

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MrDeiz

why haven't you said yet how easy it is to hack members area?
most likely intruder has got into brazzers scripts with scheduled updates.

i have been contacted by a guy who offered me complete listings of paysites members databases. yep. whole databases with login credentials along with emails, etc. hundreds of paysites. he also told me i can order any specific website which is wasn't in his list

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borked

You sir, are talking out of your ass. And yes I've seen the stats for one of those bigger players.

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Robbie

I agree with you. 70,000 transactions?

If that were true, this industry would be bigger than ever and Naughty America would have had a giant booth with tons of girls signing at AVN in January and the champagne would be flowing like water.

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Roald

Just wondering, what would be your guess on the amount of active members a company like NA has?

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signupdamnit

If you started a tube with nothing but illegal streaming movies and events the feds will probably come for your ass.

If you do the same for porn why you might be giving the keynote speech at the next AVN event.

There is a market for Netflix only because it isn't full open season on movie content. Sure you can torrent but there is still risk with that and it requires more technical know how. There are Hollywood organizations which fight the piracy and have lobbyists in the government. In porn, however, the people at the top are the pirates and the reps for these respective companies like to come on GFY and act bitchy towards the people decrying the piracy.

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signupdamnit

Maybe if you include trials? I think he said it included rebills as well.

I'm not sure I believe that today but maybe before 2011?

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MrDeiz

it's late 2013 data including trials, full sales, rebills, refunds, voids, cbs, etc

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CCSG

not necessarily
most pirate blogs have costs/hassles involved.
they make people sign up for certain filelocker sites, just so they can download 'free' porn,
which defeats the purpose for some.
most pirates dont wanna pay at all, so if they're not joining the source site or getting it elsewhere for free, they move on.

and these days torrenting isnt exactly a safe thing to do. depending on your ISP, you may or may not get a letter from them if you're downloading copyrighted material.

the point is piracy isnt simple or easy 100% of the time.

Regardless, sites like bangbros make enough money to largely ignore piracy.

Robbie

I couldn't hazard a guess.

The only thing I'm pretty sure of is: Not as many as they had in 2007.
And after the Target stores here in the U.S.A. were hacked and 40,000,000 people had to change their credit cards in the last couple of months...probably took a nice hit in the "I forgot to cancel" members who rebilled for months without even remembering they had a membership.

But one thing is for sure...simple math.

If you have 70,000 full members to your sites. And let's just say it's $30 a month... that's $2,100,000 a month.

And as I recall...in one of my many arguments with Fabian, he told me that he had seen pretty much every companies numbers and nobody was doing that kind of business.

Now how much you can believe Fabian is up for grabs.

But you and many others seemed to often agree with him on here. So IF he's telling the truth, then I have to think that "no" Naughty America doesn't have the 70,000 figure that was posted.

I really have no idea what they have anymore. None of us know. And I don't really care.

Just figured that the guy posting that number is as ignorant as you and I are on the numbers at Naughty America.

I guess Andreas knows...but he has no reason to tell us. lol

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Sid70

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Roald

Could be 70k transactions still. That has nothing to do with full or active members.

I'm just looking at our own numbers and I can only imagine we do a fraction of what NA is doing. Besides I know how much we did with then at FreeOnes. Based on that I'd guestemate that it's higher than a lot of people think.

Of course we never know for sure. It's just fun to talk about other peoples numbers.

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MrDeiz

lol, average transaction is far from being $30
let's just start from that

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CurrentlySober

Why use a toilet, when you can just shit in the street?

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