News Obama: Free Community College for All

[Mr Pheer]

50 Obama voters

[Relentless]

Anything that weakens the private university system and puts downward pressure on tuition pricing is a good idea. College has become a scam aimed at dim kids and overly optimistic parents. 75% of kids would be far better off with a good trade school and a serious apprenticeship program. Instead they get bilked out of 75 grand by a school with zero intention of finding them employment post graduation.

Single Payer Healthcare (data mined for cost decreases and efficiency increases) and Meaningful education reform should be the two biggest priorities of our government right now.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Robbie

No, but once the govt. started it's huge student loan program...the universities like Harvard saw that they could raise prices to the moon. And they did.

Bullshit.. When your parents went to college, assuming they did, they were likely given govt grants and low interest student loans "backed" by the govt. Not student loans from private companies, because the govt at that time understood that investing in the future generations made the country stronger.

It wasn't until the right started their war on education in the 80's which continues today that prices started getting out of hand. Even Bush had his hands in the mix when he took away the govt student loans programs which kept the rates low and turned it over to private companies. Added to that he allowed federal funding to be used at places like Kaiser College and all those shitty over priced micro colleges which almost never graduate anyone. Which helped drive the price up faster than anything has.

When the govt was focused on students it was a good thing and our parent's generation benefited greatly from it. It wasn't till the 80's under Reagan which everything started turning to shit and became what we have today.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Relentless

Anything that weakens the private university system and puts downward pressure on tuition pricing is a good idea. College has become a scam aimed at dim kids and overly optimistic parents. 75% of kids would be far better off with a good trade school and a serious apprenticeship program. Instead they get bilked out of 75 grand by a school with zero intention of finding them employment post graduation.

Single Payer Healthcare (data mined for cost decreases and efficiency increases) and Meaningful education reform should be the two biggest priorities of our government right now.

This is one thing I agree with. Our whole education system is flawed all the way to the corporate world. The business world needs to realize you don't need a degree to do 80% of the jobs they want to require a bullshit degree for.

You don't need a degree to be a manager, you don't need a degree to be a programmer or 90% of the jobs in the job market today, but everyone seems to think you do which feeds the problem.

This country needs to focus back on trade schools like it used to do, so when kids leave high school they have actual employable skills.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

Free education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It says the list is not complete but there are already 50 countries on there

Czech Republic and Slovakia are free too

yes, nothing like a degree from slovakia or somalia to pad your resume with eh.



But i'll rephrase my earlier comment: you sarcastically chastise USA for finally getting with free tuition like the rest of the civilized world when in reality Germany just banned tuition fees, not to mention there are plenty of ways to get a free secondary education here + we have compulsory (free) k-12 education.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by crockett

This is one thing I agree with. Our whole education system is flawed all the way to the corporate world. The business world needs to realize you don't need a degree to do 80% of the jobs they want to require a bullshit degree for.

You don't need a degree to be a manager, you don't need a degree to be a programmer or 90% of the jobs in the job market today, but everyone seems to think you do which feeds the problem.

This country needs to focus back on trade schools like it used to do, so when kids leave high school they have actual employable skills.

youre missing big points pf a degree, it teaches how to think, how to achieve long-term goals and how to work with others.

[ITraffic]

need to train more fracking drones.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by crockett

Bullshit.. When your parents went to college, assuming they did, they were likely given govt grants and low interest student loans "backed" by the govt. Not student loans from private companies, because the govt at that time understood that investing in the future generations made the country stronger.

It wasn't until the right started their war on education in the 80's

Crockett, you are always just filled with hate for your fellow citizens aren't you. "war on education"

That is nonsensical and nothing but more political drivel that you spew everytime a conversation is being had.

Student loans from the federal govt. started out modestly in 1958 under the National Defense Education Act.
Then Congress got involved (not Reagan, not ANY President...but CONGRESS...you know, the ones who make laws...and these Congresses were all: Democrat...since you want to be political about this)

Congress wrote the law that made student "loans" written into the federal budget as a "total loss".

Economists had a fit over that. It made the "guaranteed loan" appear to have no cost...even though the cost DID happen years later.

CONGRESS (you know, Democrats since they controlled both houses from 1955 to 1979 and again from 1985 to 1993 with total power in Congress and Senate), wrote and passed a bill that was signed into law by Pres. George HW Bush (not Reagan) that called for all student loans to finally be accounted for and paid back.

Anyway, the story of this continues into the Clinton years with a Republican controlled Congress doing stupid shit as well. (remember Crockett...the Dems & Repubs are the same animal).

It gets too boring to continue to write here. So why don't you (for once) look it up for yourself or click this link: Background & Analysis

And then google up some charts for the time that the U.S. govt opened up the gravy train vs the cost of colleges and see that the graphs move in tandem with the sudden skyrocketing of college tuition's.

I don't see what's so hard for you to understand. Anytime the Federal Govt. starts a money pipeline...companies that benefit immediately raise their prices astronomically.
Wouldn't you? It's "free" money.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

Free education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It says the list is not complete but there are already 50 countries on there

Czech Republic and Slovakia are free too

i picked a random country from that list, SOmalia. University is not free in Somalia

Somali university students deterred by high fees rather than civil war | Laila Ali and Hamza Mohamed | Global development | The Guardian

[aka123]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

yes, nothing like a degree from slovakia or somalia to pad your resume with eh.

What is the funny part? You guys probably have degrees from your own country, and you use those primarily in your own country. Right, eh..?

I don't see it as a very viable method to teach Slovakians or Somalis, that they are shipped to USA or whatever, to get their education. But sure, you can offer free education to all Somalis, see if I care, they probably love it.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i picked a random country from that list, SOmalia. University is not free in Somalia

Somali university students deterred by high fees rather than civil war | Laila Ali and Hamza Mohamed | Global development | The Guardian

I wouldn't pick Somalia to compare against my own country, but I have heard that US is free country, so be my guest.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

yes, nothing like a degree from slovakia or somalia to pad your resume with eh.



But i'll rephrase my earlier comment: you sarcastically chastise USA for finally getting with free tuition like the rest of the civilized world when in reality Germany just banned tuition fees, not to mention there are plenty of ways to get a free secondary education here + we have compulsory (free) k-12 education.

yeah, well, i know you guys are the smartest on the planet and the rest of us is just junk but hey, we get by somehow

and in reality SOME states in Germany have tried to raise tuition for a short time - and mostly just from people who overstayed the regular time - and it was discontinued almost everywhere.

we could have a serious discussion but since that is rarely possible with you, i'll save my time and go shopping for my breakfast now

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by aka123

What is the funny part? You guys probably have degrees from your own country, and you use those primarily in your own country. Right, eh..?

I don't see it as a very viable method to teach Slovakians or Somalis, that they are shipped to USA or whatever, to get their education. But sure, you can offer free education to all Somalis, see if I care, they probably love it.

I find it funny that someone can make a cheeky remark about USA getting with the rest of the civilized world and provide free higher education, like Somalia does for instance, when they do not.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by aka123

I wouldn't pick Somalia to compare against my own country, but I have heard that US is free country, so be my guest.

I didn't compare USA to somalia. In fact, I am countering madalton's comparing the USA to the rest of the civilized world, like Somalia.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

yeah, well, i know you guys are the smartest on the planet and the rest of us is just junk but hey, we get by somehow

and in reality SOME states in Germany have tried to raise tuition for a short time - and mostly just from people who overstayed the regular time - and it was discontinued almost everywhere.

we could have a serious discussion but since that is rarely possible with you, i'll save my time and go shopping for my breakfast now

a serious convo is rarely possible with me? is that german humor?

I found your comment re: USA cheeky in light of Germany just recently banning tuition and I guess you think it's disengenous/unserious of me to counter that with actual fucking facts.
You won't see me making bullshit comments about germany needing to get with the civilized world. why? Because that's not a serious contribution whatsoever, yet you're the one saying I can't carry on an adult debate. what a fucking joke. who are you expecting to sell that shit to?

And I didn't bring up smarts and I certainly did not state anywhere that anyone is smarter than anyone else.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

we could have a serious discussion but since that is rarely possible with you, i'll save my time and go shopping for my breakfast now

out of the 10 front page threads I am participating in, I am posting serious comments,links and more in 8 of them, which are the 8 serious topics/ the other 2 are not serious topics.

gofuckyourbreakfast.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

I find it funny that someone can make a cheeky remark about USA getting with the rest of the civilized world and provide free higher education, like Somalia does for instance, when they do not.

I don't think that MaDalton wrote that article. And still, neither this comparison flatters USA; "We don't have free education, but hey, neither has Somalia."

[Relentless]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

youre missing big points pf a degree, it teaches how to think, how to achieve long-term goals and how to work with others.

Not true.

Colleges used to teach some of that, and most of all what it showed was you were capable of taking on a difficult, voluntary, four year goal and completing it. That didn't mean you were smarter, but it was a very good way to sort reliable twenty year olds from less reliable ones entering the workforce.

It remains true at 'real schools' today. If you graduate from an Ivy you get that same kind of education... But there are hundreds of diploma factories that teach very little and see students as a paycheck. Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody, is unable to get accepted to college today if they are willing to pay the bill. As a result the difference between college grads and non-college grads is nonexistent qualitatively, which devalues getting a degree even more.

They don't teach peopke how to reason anymore. If they did, most people would opt out and avoid 200K in debt for a degree with no hope of a positive ROI

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

I didn't compare USA to somalia. In fact, I am countering madalton's comparing the USA to the rest of the civilized world, like Somalia.

He did not say that all countries with free edu are civilized or that only civilized countries had free edu, so he did not say that Somalia was civilized.