Business Coder Employment Contract Template?

[RummyBoy]

Anyone got a ready made employment contract for coder, with NDA, giving you ownership of the code and basically stopping your coder stealing the code blah blah. If not, can you suggest a place to find one.

Any help appreciated......

[edgeprod]

If you are starting from the stance that your coder is going to steal the code, you're probably using the wrong coder.

[Due]

Originally Posted by edgeprod

If you are starting from the stance that your coder is going to steal the code, you're probably using the wrong coder.

It's common business sense to protect your assets.
It's done by any major corporation around the world, are you saying they all picked the wrong coder?

[edgeprod]

Originally Posted by Due

It's common business sense to protect your assets.
It's done by any major corporation around the world, are you saying they all picked the wrong coder?

I'm directing this toward intelligent individuals, but since you got swept up in it, I'll dumb it down:

Are you really going to sue a fucking coder who takes your code? Most people here are broke and judgement-proof. Most people who are contracting coders here are likewise broke, and can't fund a lawsuit. Those who say they are not are either completely full of shit or are part of the VERY small percentage of GFY who bucks this trend.

If this is even a concern for you, you probably are the type of person who thinks an idea -- not its execution -- is where the value is. You're probably the type of person who mitigates problems that don't exist, instead of grabbing your balls and failing fast, so you can move on to the next problem.

Reddit's code is open source. Do you think they give a fuck if you start another Reddit? They're not stupid.

Sorry, I'm annoyed at someone else, so I'm kind of taking it out on you -- I assure you it's nothing personal, and I'll probably apologize profusely later.

[crockett]

Perhaps while getting a contract made, you should also get some pre-made e-mail templates made up for the sure to come next 6 months of wondering where your code is an why it's 6 months late.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by edgeprod

I'm directing this toward intelligent individuals, but since you got swept up in it, I'll dumb it down:

Are you really going to sue a fucking coder who takes your code? Most people here are broke and judgement-proof. Most people who are contracting coders here are likewise broke, and can't fund a lawsuit. Those who say they are not are either completely full of shit or are part of the VERY small percentage of GFY who bucks this trend.

If this is even a concern for you, you probably are the type of person who thinks an idea -- not its execution -- is where the value is. You're probably the type of person who mitigates problems that don't exist, instead of grabbing your balls and failing fast, so you can move on to the next problem.

Reddit's code is open source. Do you think they give a fuck if you start another Reddit? They're not stupid.

Sometimes I just love you. In a completely Non Gay way of course.

Well said

[dicknipples]

Originally Posted by edgeprod

I'm directing this toward intelligent individuals, but since you got swept up in it, I'll dumb it down:

Are you really going to sue a fucking coder who takes your code? Most people here are broke and judgement-proof. Most people who are contracting coders here are likewise broke, and can't fund a lawsuit. Those who say they are not are either completely full of shit or are part of the VERY small percentage of GFY who bucks this trend.

If this is even a concern for you, you probably are the type of person who thinks an idea -- not its execution -- is where the value is. You're probably the type of person who mitigates problems that don't exist, instead of grabbing your balls and failing fast, so you can move on to the next problem.

Reddit's code is open source. Do you think they give a fuck if you start another Reddit? They're not stupid.

Sorry, I'm annoyed at someone else, so I'm kind of taking it out on you -- I assure you it's nothing personal, and I'll probably apologize profusely later.

Bingo. If you are looking for a NDA and agreement template, and not having your legal team, or lawyer draw it up per your requirements and needs. Chances are you're not gonna do jack shit regarding the coder stealing your code other than coming back here complaining that Joe Blow is 3 months behind on your agreement of building a Facebook replica in 30 days for $250.

[edgeprod]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Sometimes I just love you. In a completely Non Gay way of course.

Well said

I'd cuddle you any time. In a semi-gay way.

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by edgeprod

Are you really going to sue a fucking coder who takes your code? Most people here are broke and judgement-proof. Most people who are contracting coders here are likewise broke, and can't fund a lawsuit.

Maybe. Maybe not. However the point of the contract is simply to provide an understanding between both parties to the agreement and NOT to facilitate a lawsuit. In any case, its really NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS.

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by Bowser Koopa

Bingo. If you are looking for a NDA and agreement template, and not having your legal team, or lawyer draw it up per your requirements and needs.

Who said our lawyers haven't done so?

We simply ask does any one have a ready made agreement ie which contains all the "standard components". We simply wanted to compare with our existing agreements to see the pros and cons of each format. However, none of this is any of your FUCKING BUSINESS.

Usually both sides have every right NOT to take action where there is a breach of contract. The value is simply to ensure that both parties understand the position of the other BEFORE entering into an agreement, so they can decide whether or not to do so.

If you are not being defensive in your contracts, you're a fool and a loser. Maybe you run a low turnover business but maybe your just THICK.

[TeenCat]

Originally Posted by crockett

Perhaps while getting a contract made, you should also get some pre-made e-mail templates made up for the sure to come next 6 months of wondering where your code is an why it's 6 months late.

hehe

[candyflip]

I have a few of them sitting here, but they're also sitting on top of NDAs. They were hand delivered by some lawyer's assistant too.

[Zyber]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

Anyone got a ready made employment contract for coder, with NDA, giving you ownership of the code and basically stopping your coder stealing the code blah blah. If not, can you suggest a place to find one.

Any help appreciated......

So in other words you want to steal from the coder instead?

I'll explain.
When the programmer codes he/she writes code based on the his/her education, previous experience and technical knowledge.

So you want to have ownership of those things, and prevent this programmer from ever using the same ideas/concepts again? Despite that you yourself take advantage of the programmer's previous experience and knowledge.

What I would suggest instead is that you make the following deal with the programmer:

The coder retains the full ownership over the code. You, as the client, get unlimited usage rights and the right to modify the code.

That way you are not trying to steal the programmer's intellectual property.

In regards to NDA's they are a double-edged sword. People get tons of ideas all the time. So the potential client can just write any generic simple idea in an NDA, and then exclusively prevent the programmer from making such project. In a way it is a free pseudo-"patent" you can impose on any programmer who is stupid enough to sign the NDA trap.

An example: You make the programmer sign the NDA. Then you tell the programmer "My ingenious idea is that I want to make an online webshop". Then the programmer cannot make any webshops for any other clients or for himself.
Or another clever idea you can tell after the victim has signed the NDA: "I want to use HTML". Now this poor programmer cannot use HTML either in his future projects. NDA's and non-compete clauses are directly evil.

So let the programmer retain ownership over the code, and let him grant you unlimited usage rights for the code he produced for you. That's the most fair for both parties.
Good luck


PS: I see you were asking for an employment contract. Most of my advice is based on a freelance / B2B situation instead of having an in-house coder. In that case you should probably get the full ownership over the code, and give the programmer unlimited usage rights (+ right to modify the code).

[RummyBoy]

I do have a legal education, do most of my own drafting before we bring our lawyers into it but we take our agreements very seriously. This was only an exercise in researching the current crop of agreements. If you don't review your agreements once in a while, you fall behind.

The NDA part is simply a Non-Disclosure Agreement. We did not have anything specific in mind but our past contracts protect the privacy of both sides but also can concern financial (banking), strategic and protecting customers data as well - is this not normal?

And you should NEVER presume that contracts are drawn up to the disadvantage of the employee or to oppress the employee in some way. They are simply there to create the environment in a fair way that both sides can understand.

I should have given more information but I am actually referring to more of a full time employment situation. I think some (programmers) took offense to how my post looks like we are trying to oppress the coder...... its wrong.

[edgeprod]

Pretending you have a lawyer, let alone "lawyers" in the plural is just making you look stupider. Either you have the world's worst lawyers, and have to go to GFY to make sure they've done their job, or you're completely full of shit. Survey says the latter.

If you or your idea were worth anything, you would have a competent lawyer draw up these documents for you. Instead, you've demonstrated that you not only don't understand how legal documents work, but also that you would be a horrible client to work for.

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by edgeprod

Pretending you have a lawyer, let alone "lawyers" in the plural is just making you look stupider.

We have a dedicated legal team that handle ALL our work. I myself, have a law degree and some legal training as well as two decades experience in drafting all kinds of agreements, contracts, MOUs, deeds, SPAs and so on.

Dude, you really need to get your shit together..... your an employee, not a business man.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

Anyone got a ready made employment contract for coder, with NDA, giving you ownership of the code and basically stopping your coder stealing the code blah blah. If not, can you suggest a place to find one.

Any help appreciated......

Programmers will sign those agreements with corporations very quickly but not so quickly with an individual.

The reason being that, unlike corporations, individuals can go berserk and act a fool.

[Rebel D]

Originally Posted by edgeprod

Pretending you have a lawyer, let alone "lawyers" in the plural is just making you look stupider. Either you have the world's worst lawyers, and have to go to GFY to make sure they've done their job, or you're completely full of shit. Survey says the latter.

If you or your idea were worth anything, you would have a competent lawyer draw up these documents for you. Instead, you've demonstrated that you not only don't understand how legal documents work, but also that you would be a horrible client to work for.

But Would he Pay you haha

[JD]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

Dude, you really need to get your shit together..... your an employee, not a business man.

[dicknipples]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

We have a dedicated legal team that handle ALL our work. I myself, have a law degree and some legal training as well as two decades experience in drafting all kinds of agreements, contracts, MOUs, deeds, SPAs and so on.

Yet, you come here asking for a template?

[candyflip]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Programmers will sign those agreements with corporations very quickly but not so quickly with an individual.

The reason being that, unlike corporations, individuals can go berserk and act a fool.

[edgeprod]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

We have a dedicated legal team that handle ALL our work. I myself, have a law degree and some legal training as well as two decades experience in drafting all kinds of agreements, contracts, MOUs, deeds, SPAs and so on.

Dude, you really need to get your shit together..... your an employee, not a business man.

Your credibility is like your grammar skills: poor. If you're dreaming that anyone is buying any of this bullshit, your alarm clock is about to go off.

If you consider me just an employee, you need to do better research, Super Lawyer. What's your bar number, and in what state?

[edgeprod]

Originally Posted by Bowser Koopa

Yet, you come here asking for a template?

That's what everyone with a law degree and a dedicated legal team does: completely ignore their fake legal team and fictitious law degree in favor of a template.

[dicknipples]

Originally Posted by edgeprod

That's what everyone with a law degree and a dedicated legal team does: completely ignore their fake legal team and fictitious law degree in favor of a template.

[RazorSharpe]

Originally Posted by Zyber

So in other words you want to steal from the coder instead?

I'll explain.
When the programmer codes he/she writes code based on the his/her education, previous experience and technical knowledge.

So you want to have ownership of those things, and prevent this programmer from ever using the same ideas/concepts again? Despite that you yourself take advantage of the programmer's previous experience and knowledge.

What I would suggest instead is that you make the following deal with the programmer:

The coder retains the full ownership over the code. You, as the client, get unlimited usage rights and the right to modify the code.

That way you are not trying to steal the programmer's intellectual property.

In regards to NDA's they are a double-edged sword. People get tons of ideas all the time. So the potential client can just write any generic simple idea in an NDA, and then exclusively prevent the programmer from making such project. In a way it is a free pseudo-"patent" you can impose on any programmer who is stupid enough to sign the NDA trap.

An example: You make the programmer sign the NDA. Then you tell the programmer "My ingenious idea is that I want to make an online webshop". Then the programmer cannot make any webshops for any other clients or for himself.
Or another clever idea you can tell after the victim has signed the NDA: "I want to use HTML". Now this poor programmer cannot use HTML either in his future projects. NDA's and non-compete clauses are directly evil.

So let the programmer retain ownership over the code, and let him grant you unlimited usage rights for the code he produced for you. That's the most fair for both parties.
Good luck


PS: I see you were asking for an employment contract. Most of my advice is based on a freelance / B2B situation instead of having an in-house coder. In that case you should probably get the full ownership over the code, and give the programmer unlimited usage rights (+ right to modify the code).

Erm, you have a seriously flawed concept of NDAs as used within IT. They don't prevent the coder from ever creating a "webshop" or from ever using "HTML" ... they prevent the coder from using code he specifically wrote on your dime. If parts of the code he used within your application came from other publicly available libraries, the coder can use these within the scope of other work he does for other clients ...

[edgeprod]

Bumping this so we can laugh more today.

[dicknipples]

Originally Posted by edgeprod

Bumping this so we can laugh more today.

[altmman]

Originally Posted by edgeprod

If you are starting from the stance that your coder is going to steal the code, you're probably using the wrong coder.
.

Thats exactly what Mark Zuckerberg did with Facebook/ConnectU. He was hired to make it and ran off with it.