The Social Cost Of Capitalism

[wehateporn]

The two largest reservoirs, Lake Mead and Lake Powell, are at 39% and 52% of capacity. The massive lakes on which the Western United States is dependent are drying up. And now Lake Powell is faced with receiving 3 million gallons of waste water containing arsenic, lead, copper, aluminum and cadmium.

Few, if any, corporations absorb the full cost of their operations. Corporations shove many of their costs onto the environment, the public sector, and distant third parties. For example, currently 3 million gallons of toxic waste water from a Colorado mine has escaped and is working its way down two rivers into Utah and Lake Powell. At least seven city water systems dependent on the rivers have been shut down. The waste was left by private enterprise, and the waste was accidentally released by the Environmental Protection Agency, which might be true or might be a coverup for the mine. If the Lake Powell reservoir ends up polluted, it is likely that the cost of the mine imposed on third parties exceeds the total value of the mine?s output over its entire life.

Economists call these costs ?external costs? or ?social costs.? The mine made its profits by creating pollutants, the cost of which is born by those who had no share in the profits.

As this is the way regulated capitalism works, you can imagine how bad unregulated capitalism would be. Just think about the unregulated financial system, the consequences we are still suffering with more to come.

Despite massive evidence to the contrary, libertarians hold tight to their romantic concept of capitalism, which, freed from government interference, serves the consumer with the best products at the lowest prices.

If only.

Progressives have their own counterpart to the libertarians? romanticism. Progressives regard government as the white knight that protects the public from the greed of capitalists.

If only.

Everyone, and most certainly libertarians and progressives, should read Jeffrey St. Clair?s book, Born Under A Bad Sky (2008). St. Clair is an engaging writer, and his book is rewarding on many levels. If you have never floated the Western rivers or met the challenge of treacherous rapids or camped among mosquitoes and rattlesnakes, you can experience these facets of life vicariously with St. Clair, while simultaneously learning how corruption in the Park Service, the Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Management results in timber companies, mining companies, and cattle ranchers making money by plundering national forests and public lands.

Continued Whatsupic - The Social Cost Of Capitalism

[Barry-xlovecam]

Outrageous...

[Rochard]

The drought in California is going to be a huge issue. Most of us are doing their part; Our lawns are all dead. Some of my neighbors have "painted" their lawns. To make mattes worse are expecting an "El Nino" winter where it will rain more than usual which will cause massive flooding.

If this spreads to other areas it will become a huge problem.

[Paul Markham]

"Saving the environment" will be hugely expensive. This is one isolated issue.

Imagine your cost of living rising 5%, to cover it. It may well be a lot more.

Obama is on his way to Alaska, to see the effects of Global warming. He has just allowed Drill to drill for oil in the Chukchi Sea in Shishmaref, Alaska.

Claiming America needs to be self sufficient in oil. Better solution is to get people to size down their cars, pay more for oil. But that would solve the problem, and damage life styles. So never going to happen.

[j3rkules]

Libertarians hold parties liable for damages and imminent damages to other parties, not some strawman romantic trust in unbridled free markets with reckless externalities.

Well said.

[OldJeff]

Those photos are from a spill caused by the EPA not the private sector

[aka123]

They have had similar problems in communism too. The problem is not caring/ it is allowed by the people who might care.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Imagine your cost of living rising 5%, to cover it. It may well be a lot more.

OMG! Is this some joke? 5% is pigeon shit if that would really do it. You are not willing to pay 5 % more to ensure continuity, etc.?

[SilentKnight]

All we have is water in our lakes and rivers.

You guys have orange juice!

Stop whining.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by OldJeff

Those photos are from a spill caused by the EPA not the private sector

''Your government at work'' I noticed that too.
The EPA was fixing the problem?

In China or North Korea the persons responsible would be executed ...

[aka123]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

In China or North Korea the persons responsible would be executed ...

Doesn't seem to help. Well, besides covering it up.

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by OldJeff

Those photos are from a spill caused by the EPA not the private sector

^^^ This. And it looks like they did it on purpose or at least with a crapload of negligence and stupidity. A geologist outlined in detail how the EPA was going to fuck up a week before they did it.

And to the OP: go push communism somewhere else. I hear they are looking for propaganda officers in Venezuela. They need help convincing the starving people who wait hours in line just to buy basic items that communism is wonderful.

The social cost of communism:











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[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by aka123

OMG! Is this some joke? 5% is pigeon shit if that would really do it. You are not willing to pay 5 % more to ensure continuity, etc.?

It may cost more. Yes I'm willing to pay for it. I'm asking if the US voter is.

They could pay 5% more in taxes and solve some problems.

[ilnjscb]

Socialism, just like bitcoin 1.0, doesn't take human nature into account

Hard Times Breed Malaria as the Desperate Flock to Illegal Mines

Educated people (Who probably voted for socialism) leave the city for the swamps to do the back breaking work of digging in illegal mines under the watchful eye of an armed group that taxes them and threatens to tie them to a post if they disobey.

There it is folks. Armed men. They show up in Socialism, because someone has to enforce all the love and goodness and fairness. They show up in communism, they show up everywhere. If you want freedom, get rid of them. Any form of government that doesn't allow for a check on those people will wind up exploiting the many for the few.

LOL at the idiots that imagine socialism won't devolve into this eventually.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Venezuela is for the most part a one horse economy -- OIL
Oil prices have fallen 50%

Whether Venezuela is Capitalist, Socialist, Communist or Fascist that country would be fucked right now. Bad example

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Venezuela is for the most part a one horse economy -- OIL
Oil prices have fallen 50%

Whether Venezuela is Capitalist, Socialist, Communist or Fascist that country would be fucked right now. Bad example

Bad example of a bad example. Plus a gross oversimplification and an evident complete lack of knowledge about what has happened there.

Oil prices alone do not account for the misery that the socialists/communists have brought to Venezuela. They had ruined their oil industry long before the prices fell. They have ruined every industry in the country - including farming. So now their people are starving just like they do in other crackpot communist countries.

And now they may be subjected to forced labour:

Venezuela's new decree: Forced farm work for citizens - Jul. 29, 2016

How many other countries with oil based economies are considering forced labour because the price of oil fell?

The road to socialism/communism always ends with misery, starvation, death and dictatorship. Why do people continue to make excuses for it?




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[Barry-xlovecam]

EonBlue

I wont miss you at all

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

EonBlue

I wont miss you at all

Ummmmm, ok. Whatever, you say.




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[Best-In-BC]

If your talking social cost, start and end with your local news, they are one of the biggest culture influences, special with the 30+ dumb ass crowd who has troubles with any change.

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by EonBlue

^^^ This. And it looks like they did it on purpose or at least with a crapload of negligence and stupidity. A geologist outlined in detail how the EPA was going to fuck up a week before they did it.

And to the OP: go push communism somewhere else. I hear they are looking for propaganda officers in Venezuela. They need help convincing the starving people who wait hours in line just to buy basic items that communism is wonderful.

The social cost of communism:



.

real communism






Libertarianizm
Liberia

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by EonBlue

Bad example of a bad example. Plus a gross oversimplification and an evident complete lack of knowledge about what has happened there.

Oil prices alone do not account for the misery that the socialists/communists have brought to Venezuela. They had ruined their oil industry long before the prices fell. They have ruined every industry in the country - including farming. So now their people are starving just like they do in other crackpot communist countries.

And now they may be subjected to forced labour:

Venezuela's new decree: Forced farm work for citizens - Jul. 29, 2016

How many other countries with oil based economies are considering forced labour because the price of oil fell?

The road to socialism/communism always ends with misery, starvation, death and dictatorship. Why do people continue to make excuses for it?

.

So making sure companies stick to the rules of pollution is or isn't a good thing?

https://www.google.cz/webhp?hl=en&gw...y+of+pollution

And what happened in the gulf recently and how are rigs being inspected today?

I can never get my head around people who believe making companies stick to rules is bad.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Hugo Chavez was an obnoxious loud mouth anti USA opinionated asshole.

However, his redistribution of the wealth in Venezuela and the subsidization of consumer prices with the oil profits was over done creating a false economy that collapsed with the oil prices.

Venezuela raises gas prices 6,200% |businessinsider.com

Price subsidizes when excessive create economies doomed to crashes. End of story.

Capitalism needs to be regulated because when it hasn't been there are too many abuses -- this goes back the European Mercantilism which led to slavery and genocide in the 'new world' -- North and South America.

The other evil is religious fanaticism. The Church led the atrocities in the discovery and exploitation in the New World. This is not unlike the Islamic Fanatics we know as the Islamic Terrorist State (ISIS et. al)

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

It may cost more. Yes I'm willing to pay for it. I'm asking if the US voter is.

They could pay 5% more in taxes and solve some problems.

The problem here in California is that the money never goes to what it's suppised to.

Here in Orange County we've had plastic bag fees at the grocery store, $1 obesity tax increase in 2 litre soda pop sales, all the money disapears. Yet Mexican illegal immigrants walk over the border & get free healthcare, housing, education, spending money & don't speak English.

I'm a fiscal conservative & it kills me to see the impact of illegal immigration in Southern California the last 20 years.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by Rochard

The drought in California is going to be a huge issue. Most of us are doing their part; Our lawns are all dead. Some of my neighbors have "painted" their lawns. To make mattes worse are expecting an "El Nino" winter where it will rain more than usual which will cause massive flooding.

If this spreads to other areas it will become a huge problem.

I thought last year was an El Niño winter. Can there be two in a row? That would be awesome. :D

(This month is end-of-the-year billing for the Energy bill. Mine is a $40 CREDIT, thanks El Niño)

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So making sure companies stick to the rules of pollution is or isn't a good thing?

https://www.google.cz/webhp?hl=en&gw...y+of+pollution

And what happened in the gulf recently and how are rigs being inspected today?

I can never get my head around people who believe making companies stick to rules is bad.

What the heck are you on about? Your post makes no sense at all as a reply to my post that you quoted.




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[ilnjscb]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Venezuela is for the most part a one horse economy -- OIL
Oil prices have fallen 50%

Whether Venezuela is Capitalist, Socialist, Communist or Fascist that country would be fucked right now. Bad example

And you expect that a nation WITHOUT a huge supply of a limited and ceaselessly sought after commodity would make a better example? The oil reserves made Venezuela supposedly immune to the vagaries of socialism. Nation with large oil exports are considered lucky! The point is even with Venezuela's huge supply of oil, they still can't manage to have a working economy because of socialism.

Let's hear a good example from you, eh?

[ilnjscb]

Originally Posted by Sarn

real communism

Not sure if serious

[Barry-xlovecam]

Depends on the flavor of socialism. China is a success story if you consider the life most Chinese had had before the Communist Revolution.

Vietnam seems to be working out too.

Both have diverse economies and not single resource based. But they are both market driven Communism allowing limited capitalism within.

I wouldn't want their society's standard of living -- but I am not a peasant or low skilled worker either.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Venezuela is for the most part a one horse economy -- OIL
Oil prices have fallen 50%

Whether Venezuela is Capitalist, Socialist, Communist or Fascist that country would be fucked right now. Bad example

Don't forget the sanctions and threats to Venezuela from the big capitalist who wants their
people to starve to prove that capitalism is best.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...uela_relations

On March 9, 2015, the United States president, Barack Obama signed and issued a presidential order declaring Venezuela a threat to its national security and ordered sanctions against seven Venezuelan officials. Venezuelan president, Maduro, denounced the sanctions as an attempt to topple his socialist government.

We do everything we can to starve them and then blame their system of government for it.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

The problem here in California is that the money never goes to what it's suppised to.

Here in Orange County we've had plastic bag fees at the grocery store, $1 obesity tax increase in 2 litre soda pop sales, all the money disapears. Yet Mexican illegal immigrants walk over the border & get free healthcare, housing, education, spending money & don't speak English.

I'm a fiscal conservative & it kills me to see the impact of illegal immigration in Southern California the last 20 years.

Then vote for better politicians. Mass migration only benefits the rich and very rich, the long-term effects are going to be terrible for 95%.

So don't vote for anyone who's funded by big money or the Left Wing who are keen to give whast you have away to anyone who asks.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by EonBlue

What the heck are you on about? Your post makes no sense at all as a reply to my post that you quoted.

The only people between you and big business are those in Government. The Gulf Oil Spill was because of the lack of Government inspectors. This is just one of many cases where more Government is good. Along with Healthcare, Education, policing, justice, etc.

Babbling on about what happens in backwards countries is missing the point. Unless you think America is on the same level.

You just want to divert attention from what's happening in the US. Which is what the thread's about. Read the OP.

[EonBlue]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The only people between you and big business are those in Government. The Gulf Oil Spill was because of the lack of Government inspectors. This is just one of many cases where more Government is good. Along with Healthcare, Education, policing, justice, etc.

Babbling on about what happens in backwards countries is missing the point. Unless you think America is on the same level.

You just want to divert attention from what's happening in the US. Which is what the thread's about. Read the OP.

Yes, because big government is always better:

The EPA Caused A Huge Toxic Spill Now Streaming Toward Lake Powell

You are a deluded fool. Period.



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