MrBottomTooth

We're losing 3000 jobs here in Ontario. But the big question will be how many more smaller plants close because of that. We have many smaller factories that are there solely to supply GMC with parts. Whole sector will be devastated.

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Phoenix

I think gm can kiss their ontario sales goodbye

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VRPdommy

It's being said by who ??? Losses by who ???
How would I take that as accurate if I no not know the who or what they are talking about ? The bailout and the pullback are not related.
...
I too am disappointed, but I understand the conditions they are under.

So anyone telling me that GM should make small cars that are not selling. Who are they going to sell them to. Are you paying those losses. Want to bail them out again ?

Sears / K-Mart losses are even greater. Where is the outcry ?
They went belly up only to reform to do it again.

Someone pays for those losses. Why such a double standard ?

If you feel the need to dictate what GM does, are you also willing to pay the losses they incur from your actions ? Wouldn't that be rewarding bad behavior ?

Why not tell Sears / K-Mart what to do ?

I have seen nearly as many biz closings in my area as there was after the banks collapse. There is still something fundamentally wrong in the economy. Or is it something new ?

Folks, the simple fact is they are responding to a change in the market. If any of you are to be tentative to the issue, then tend to what changed in the market that prompted this. GM is responding to the results, not causing them. Perhaps they did misjudge the small car market, but I didn't hear anyone advising of that when they did it. We all know that small cars sales are tied to the price of fuel so don't be stupid about it. Can you accurately predict the price of fuel even 2 years from now ?

GM will be back in the small car market. The question is when and where.
I think that is dependent on how this trade war ends. I imagine they will want to wait till they can see some concise direction before moving ahead. Wouldn't you ?

Going to be a lot of job losses going forward, just from automation. The part production is changing as we speak. High end manufacturers will be using more advanced 3Dprinting systems to make a larger percentage of the metal parts. That will displace a bunch of industrial jobs like it or not. Everyone will be onboard before you know it with more and more parts.

Are you ready for the changing market ? who will you blame as it does ? And it's going to change no matter how you think about it now. Survival of the fittest is just fine with me as long as the markets are not being artificially manipulated.

directfiesta

... and Trudeau gave up the agricultural sector in the new NAFTA deal ... to protect the canadian car industry ....

tony286

GM made 6 billion dollars in profits last year. So want to try again? The tax cuts were going to bring jobs, good jobs. all it brought was stock buy backs.

RedFred

Yea, it turns out if people arent earning a living wage they can't afford to buy things.

#ThanksRepublicans

VRPdommy

It's OK ... really... Trump has blamed the FED for GM's pullback in the market.
Everyone can take a breath now.....
Well, someone has to take the blame... the BUCK STOPS THERE !

Guess we can see his new target now.

I can only say that if he fires the Fed Chair to replace with one who will not 'self-think' interest rates based on facts independently, we are all doomed in our economy.

I pity the next folks to be elected. We may have a mess larger than Obama had when he came in.
I can't believe I am even saying that.
They will not be able to glue the economy back together again.
It's not bad enough we know we are headed for very slow growth, he is going in for the kill by manufacturing a way to keep the numbers good till election time.

Bladewire

GM sent an open letter to Trump telling him this was going to happen 6 months ago if he kept the tariffs active long enough.

Bladewire

Trump, 2 years ago, telling the town where GM just shut down, that GM will not shut down.

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thommy

this is the best prove that he have really NOT A SINGLE IDEA how economy works.

I'm not sure if his diabolical plan is to drive inflation so high that he can repay his debts to his own people out of the postage box.

if that is the case, the small investors would once again pay the bill.

but what he forgets is that the money the americans have in government bonds is only a small fraction.

future financings would have to be transacted thus over foreign currencies and those will then interest in the high 2-digit range costs like that in Turkey just happened where the same economic idiot sits, who put so long the central bank under pressure not to raise the interest rates until one could wipe oneself with the Turkish lira the ass.

to find more examples, you don't even have to refer to Chavez and Maduro whose country has reached an inflation rate of 1.3 million percent.
There were already completely insane presidents in the USA before Trump who didn't believe that.
Gerald Ford e.g.

Or Reagan, whose disgusting idea tax cuts would increase the state revenues have not only brought the USA a huge recession but have even entered the textbooks of the market economy as Reagonomics - there it stands as a synonym for stupidity

every reasonable economist knows that a country's economy can only be based on balance. an overfired economy is a more dangerous poison than a weak one.
the american economy is near to explode in a big crash.

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VRPdommy

LOL
You must be forgetting that Trump has no money. He lives by re-regurgitating debt like a big pyramid scheme. Anyone who does that has to fear that interest rate. It forces you to create a new tier of debt.

And so the story is understood !

huey

Looks like they could afford a few things.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nikkiba.../#6caaf02f4eb5

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Rochard

You might be onto something here.

Computers and technology changed our industry - for the worse. It's also changing the news industry in the same way. Twenty years ago building a website meant you have to have a degree in IT or at least be a computer junkie - When I got started in this industry you had to build your own computer AND maintain it. We had to have a special 1934 video card to input video, which was rare back then. Now anyone can build a website in ten minutes. Anyone can build a news site.

Now the auto companies are being challenged by new comers - Tesla, and now another company making trucks.

Retail is being crushed by Amazon and online sales.

It's a whole new world.

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VRPdommy

Yes, I remember building systems in the early/mid 80's when the bios bus timings were quite complex to get right and by the late 80's the sub'd it out and very much simplified it and was able to sell to the masses at that point.

I have seen the face of future manufacturing many years ago.
Made major bets on it, even though while liking it, I know it will displace many jobs.
While allowing precision and speed, it also allows for things not possible before. All at much lower costs, especially when the costs of safety in the workplace costs are added and health benefits, pensions are concerned, and you can forget wages, they do not matter as much as the others.

For car co's... they are going to have to consider ride sharing, autonomous taxi's and several other things not yet on the public's mind. To stay alive, they have to look 5-10 or more years into the future. And weigh all of that against the cost and location of material needed and it's location and time to market, as in 'just in time production' and no warehousing. All of that plays into a lower footprint and taxes.

Just look at one of elon musk's operations to have a sneak peek at the future. Being Tesla or SpaceX. But especially SpaceX. In Tesla, You can see the relativity of that battery plant with the rest of the production line. He's making those batteries here in the US (Sparks NV) which means he is not relying on the Chinese (who control lithium right now), trade practices and thereby reducing the need for shipping, warehousing and taxes.
A highly automated system for Li-ion batteries I'm not sure the Chinese can compete with unless they can do the same with less people. As long as the quality is a premium, we will likely also serve those up to those 'ON-PEAK' electric demand storage unit going into California, and solar storage systems.

But take a look at his stuff and you will see a glimpse of the future. This is what GM is facing. Unfortunately, once a few start doing this, they all have to do it or die.
They call it competition. You can't be complacent with how things are.

Add a little instability generated by politics, you get a very nervous group of folks running the company that will find the need to hedge against the stupid things politicians can do.

_Richard_

you don't see the bailout of a company that simply pulls out 10 years later as connected?

thommy

the BANKS can afford it.
US have the highest rate of loans to private sector since the crisis.

if you are talking about a healthy economy it means that is is healthy because of money spend that is earn and not from money people earn in the next 5 or 10 years.

go back to school and take lessons about economy - maybe you will see clearer what the problem is.

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VRPdommy

Pulls out of what ? They still employ and are making cars here in the US.

It's called reorganization. Are you going to buy those cars that are not selling ?
If you are... problem solved.
If not, Do you think they should make them anyway ?
The Lordstown Ohio plant makes only Chevy Cruz and that body type across the platforms.

Do you want to 'bail them out' again ?
Make some sense of it !

Why do you think they are obligated to loose money ?
What should I expect from you for the tax breaks you receive ?

We have 'bailed out' the steel industry countless times in the last 35 years, yet, they continue to close. And the ones that are still making it have 70% fewer jobs over the same period.

You are focused on the result of the problem, but not the problem.

I have stated many times when most were head over heals that tax breaks were going to create jobs,
that JOBS ARE CONTRARY TO PROFITS. Shareholders do not invest to make jobs or friends in their community.

Besides, at this point they have not committed to close the plants. Just to stop production for now. We will see some better standing for the next labor negotiations, but they are about to reorganize for what's next in automotive tech. Which plants re-open for production remains to be seen. And I doubt more than 65% will go back to work with the next plan. Whatever that is.
I think much of that will depend on this trade war and the cost of metals and where those 'outsourced parts' will have to be made to be profitable. And that is outside of GM's control. There are nearby suppliers for those parts that this trade war has significantly cut the bottom line on and the cost is passed on to GM. Those jobs too are lost and nobody is counting them.

It's just not as simple and black and white as everyone wants to believe.

pimpmaster9000

spot on...shareholder primacy guarantees that the gravy train does not stop...and who in their right mind would invest in a business that has lots of expensive workers while the competition is automated or in china?...sheeeet GM stock rose 6% the day this layoff news broke

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_Richard_

see my location?

thommy

but this is something trumpeteers can´t understand. they think trump´s magic can create jobs AND shareholder profit.

this is also the thing that they do not understand about china because american companies need china.
the only way out of this is to throw the us is such a terrible inflation that the dollarrae is equal to the chinese luang.
if than americans´accept a 50 hours week and 7 days holiday per year they can get the chinese jobs to america.
with other words: making america CHINESE instead of great is how they can reach their goal.

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Tasty1

Here in Brazil there is a 100% tax on luxurieus goods like cars. So why complain so much, more and more cars every year here also. Better for the environment that the growth of car sales are a little less. We know car producers can't be trusted. In Europe they stole billions by putting false software in cars. And Merkel doesn't think much about the Paris Climate Agreements also, she wanted to protect the German car industry. let's call the tarifs a "green tax" and everybody thinks it s for the environment and a good thing. The share holders don't care about the climate.

celandina

I was going to trade this:



For this,next year...




...and the bitch decided NOT to make them any more

directfiesta

why downgrade ?

huey

I'm 50 years old and have seen the economy go up and down every 10 years. A total world wide crash in 2008 which im sure you predicted. I don't care how smart you think you are about world economics the market will crash and then grow again. Its out of your hands.

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pimpmaster9000

A pretty lie is always more attractive than the ugly truth...so if trump promises them the jobs are coming back they will believe him...

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Bladewire

Sad but true

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celandina

My Audi is 6 years old and I am maybe moving back to Canada. Sericing Audis is more expensive there..

VRPdommy

Here is one of the issues facing GM and small cars and tariffs.
'some' of those small cars are export to china believe it or not.
Mainly any overflow in demand they can't make over there.
Not many by percentage because they make them in china for china for the most part.
And Buick is the #1 brand in china for executives,
They have a custom tailoring shop for them over there. look it up it as will surprise you. Been known for years but I don't understand why never a headline about it.

anyway... additional insight
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/03/b...s-tariffs.html

Bladewire

Great article

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