What is the monthly expense of running a popular paysite? - GoFuckYourself.com

BJ · 05-06-2003, 08:35 PM

taking out paying affiliates (if any) what does it cost to run a paysite such as maxcash, ars, adult.com, etc.

Im talking bandwidth, employee costs, content, and everthing else.

My guess is 250k

edit: I may be way off

Gary · 05-06-2003, 08:40 PM

1 billllllllion dollars

lil2rich4u2 · 05-06-2003, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary
1 billllllllion dollars

I think you left out the visa fee

m0rph3us · 05-06-2003, 08:41 PM

define 'popular'
1k members or 100k?

psyko514 · 05-06-2003, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary
1 billllllllion dollars

fucking a. i was gonna say 1 milllllion dollars.
bastard.

lil2rich4u2 · 05-06-2003, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m0rph3us
define 'popular'
1k members or 100k?

Interesting point.

Id be curious to know how many members it takes to push a profit. Never really thought about it

m0rph3us · 05-06-2003, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lil2rich4u2

Interesting point.

Id be curious to know how many members it takes to push a profit. Never really thought about it

profit = revenue - costs

Juicy D. Links · 05-06-2003, 08:44 PM

take the angle of the dangle and divide it by the motion in the ocean times the push in the bush

BJ · 05-06-2003, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m0rph3us
define 'popular'
1k members or 100k?

top of the tier only. $10 mil gross+ a month (If that exists)

Im not asking anyone to open their books, just trying to get a general idea of certain ratios.

lil2rich4u2 · 05-06-2003, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m0rph3us

profit = revenue - costs

heh

Problem is, i dont know the exact figures involved in starting/running a site, and i also dont know the income a single signup can bring. So its hard for me to figure out ... just figured someone had it down to a science by now.

m0rph3us · 05-06-2003, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lil2rich4u2

just figured someone had it down to a science by now.

some people do but they'd be stupid to post their forumlas and insider info on a public forum to show their competition

Sly_RJ · 05-06-2003, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lil2rich4u2

heh

Problem is, i dont know the exact figures involved in starting/running a site, and i also dont know the income a single signup can bring. So its hard for me to figure out ... just figured someone had it down to a science by now.

Grab a pen and paper and start writing down reasonable numbers. It isn't that hard to come up with an estimate on the overall cost of starting a paysite. It's the other stuff that gets tricky...

lil2rich4u2 · 05-06-2003, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m0rph3us

some people do but they'd be stupid to post their forumlas and insider info on a public forum to show their competition

True ... but if they were smart enough to think of that, they would be smart enough to convince people it takes a bazilion members to make a profit. That should eliminate some future competition, lol

BJ · 05-06-2003, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Grab a pen and paper and start writing down reasonable numbers. It isn't that hard to come up with an estimate on the overall cost of starting a paysite. It's the other stuff that gets tricky...

Yes,

Im not trying to stick my nose into someones books, I just want a rough estimate, but only at the highest tier. The heavy hitters.

Marcus · 05-06-2003, 08:55 PM

I think the best guy to talk to is Mark Tiarra
http://www.lumyr.com/
He knows these numbers

lil2rich4u2 · 05-06-2003, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Grab a pen and paper and start writing down reasonable numbers. It isn't that hard to come up with an estimate on the overall cost of starting a paysite. It's the other stuff that gets tricky...

Hey Sly, hows it going!

The paper idea is great, but for someone with no friends to ask about it its kind of tough.

You would need rough pricing for hosting, content, processing for starters. Once the niche and type of site has been decided you can start forcasting chargebacks, bad checks, cancels, rebill's, etc. Theres alot of stuff that just cant be guessed until you have your feet wet in that side of the world.

m0rph3us · 05-06-2003, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marcus
I think the best guy to talk to is Mark Tiarra
http://www.lumyr.com/
He knows these numbers

he'll love the emails he'll get from 100k newbies

BJ · 05-06-2003, 08:58 PM

someone needs to find that chart posted about 6 months ago on the recurring model. It was sweet.

If I can get some numbers here, I have a buddy that will run some crazy stats in SAS

m0rph3us · 05-06-2003, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PureMeds
someone needs to find that chart posted about 6 months ago on the recurring model. It was sweet.

If I can get some numbers here, I have a buddy that will run some crazy stats in SAS

HAHA the one that assumed 100% recurring

BJ · 05-06-2003, 09:09 PM

how bout a simple expense to gross ratio

SleazyDream · 05-06-2003, 09:36 PM

everything in volume gets cheaper to buy.

heymatty · 05-06-2003, 09:44 PM

Quote:

everything in volume gets cheaper to buy.

Yet most companies that fail don't control expenses correctly and get into trouble because revenue can't keep up with costs.

quiet · 05-06-2003, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PureMeds
how bout a simple expense to gross ratio

I've sat at about 70% profit margin for years. I peaked last fall at a little over 13K recurring members/month + new signups. very stable.

BJ · 05-06-2003, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet

I've sat at about 70% profit margin for years. I peaked last fall at a little over 13K recurring members/month + new signups. very stable.

that is very good, considering most brick and mortar are lucky to operate at 15% w/ 100x more employees and over head.

pulling a million + in your own pocket a year is very reputable without cooking the books.

<IMX> · 05-06-2003, 10:04 PM

Estimates on costs are not that difficult, revenue streams and expected value of those revenue streams - payouts to traffic buys and affiliates...that is the tricky part.

BJ · 05-06-2003, 10:06 PM

I wish I could explain better where I was going w/ this...

But there is no credit facility for porn.... which means that most if not all run liquid.

should be taught in college.

Madball · 05-06-2003, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PureMeds
I wish I could explain better where I was going w/ this...

But there is no credit facility for porn.... which means that most if not all run liquid.

should be taught in college.

The insanity of porn compared to brick and mortar is that most online porn businesses fund their exansion and investments directly out of their weekly cashflow.

If You tell a seasoned accountant or some stock analyst "We don't need any cash from investors or banks, we just use our cash flow to cover all costs of overhead & investments" you will see big $$$ signs pop up in their eyes. This is widely unheard of in many brick and mortar industries.

EscortBiz · 05-06-2003, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Madball

The insanity of porn compared to brick and mortar is that most online porn businesses fund their exansion and investments directly out of their weekly cashflow.

If You tell a seasoned accountant or some stock analyst "We don't need any cash from investors or banks, we just use our cash flow to cover all costs of overhead & investments" you will see big $$$ signs pop up in their eyes. This is widely unheard of in many brick and mortar industries.

Well said, I second that

Pornwolf · 05-06-2003, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PureMeds
But there is no credit facility for porn.... which means that most if not all run liquid.

should be taught in college.

You are so right. All businesses should be run like this in my opinion. After I figured it out and accepted the porn philosophy I told my investors in my mainstream biz to fuck off. They couldn't fathom working in this manner. We know better.

BJ · 05-06-2003, 10:39 PM

start-up incubators..

this used to be *hot* topic within local governence..

thinking being that attracting e-com biz would ultimately lead to self-sufficient community growth.

until they found out that multi-million operations can run w/ little to no employee overhead

angelsofporn · 05-06-2003, 10:48 PM

i know one guy on this board that spends 30k a month just on content..let alone BW.. etc

FTVGirls · 05-06-2003, 11:50 PM

we pay 5k a month on content, and 5k a month on bandwidth. But that is peasant pay next to the tax burden.

angelsofporn · 05-07-2003, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FTVGirls
we pay 5k a month on content, and 5k a month on bandwidth. But that is peasant pay next to the tax burden.

it's all about the sub S corp

UnseenWorld · 05-07-2003, 12:19 AM

My nominee for stupidest thread of the year.

BritishTwinks · 05-07-2003, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnseenWorld
My nominee for stupidest thread of the year.

My nominee for stupidest post of the year

psyko514 · 05-07-2003, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by quiet

I've sat at about 70% profit margin for years. I peaked last fall at a little over 13K recurring members/month + new signups. very stable.

jesus fucking christ. that's some real cash right there. adopt me.

NETbilling · 05-07-2003, 12:38 AM

Puremeds,

Chat with me tomorrow again and I will give you some estimates? Looking to step into adult?

Mitch

Qumbus · 05-07-2003, 12:41 AM

Hard to say.... depends on how you run the site.
Do you buy content and update every day or once week, where do you buy the content, howmany members........
You can go from 1k a month for a single paysite to 20k a month for a single paysite.

BJ · 05-07-2003, 07:51 AM

LeeNoga · 05-07-2003, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PureMeds
My guess is 250k

In 1997 Intergal [Dean Shannon] started his huge affiliate program for $250K in that day.

With affiliate programs opening up by the hundreds, I think its more along the lines of what you can afford and you hope like hell you generate what you pay out.

Rochard · 05-07-2003, 08:14 AM

Your talking about opening up a new business, which involves a ton of variables and a lot of risk.

Opening up your own paysite can be down with very little investment. What do you really need? Content, a website, a host, and a few fees to get some credit card processing going.

However, I'll warn you - The bigger you get, the more complicated it gets, and the more money you'll need to spend each month. Lightspeed Media is a great example. Steve started with one small cheerleader site by paying some models to pose for him and putting them on his little website. Then he hired me, and a few websites later another person, and more websites later another webmaster. By then we needed more equipment, more computers, and a phyiscal location to work out of. Now we have a real office in a office building, programmers to keep everything running, graphics designers, an attorney, and so on.

And it's a lot of work; Steve and I both work a lot of hours.

If you wanted my advice I'd say the following......
- Go with a good credit card processing company, one that's not gonna keep your money from you (Try CCBill).
- Be prepared to work a lot of hours.
- Make sure you hosting company has good support and good up time.
- Be careful of who you hire; Everyone you hire represents you.
- Go to every show you can and meet everyone you can. It's great when you have a problem to be able to pick up the phone and call some of the most important people in the industry.

If you ever want to seriously talk numbers find me at a show.

BJ · 05-07-2003, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RocHard
Your talking about opening up a new business, which involves a ton of variables and a lot of risk.

Opening up your own paysite can be down with very little investment. What do you really need? Content, a website, a host, and a few fees to get some credit card processing going.

However, I'll warn you - The bigger you get, the more complicated it gets, and the more money you'll need to spend each month. Lightspeed Media is a great example. Steve started with one small cheerleader site by paying some models to pose for him and putting them on his little website. Then he hired me, and a few websites later another person, and more websites later another webmaster. By then we needed more equipment, more computers, and a phyiscal location to work out of. Now we have a real office in a office building, programmers to keep everything running, graphics designers, an attorney, and so on.

And it's a lot of work; Steve and I both work a lot of hours.

If you wanted my advice I'd say the following......
- Go with a good credit card processing company, one that's not gonna keep your money from you (Try CCBill).
- Be prepared to work a lot of hours.
- Make sure you hosting company has good support and good up time.
- Be careful of who you hire; Everyone you hire represents you.
- Go to every show you can and meet everyone you can. It's great when you have a problem to be able to pick up the phone and call some of the most important people in the industry.

If you ever want to seriously talk numbers find me at a show.

hey thanks, Ill try to icq you later this afternoon.

I have what may be a good idea... I have own processing, Ive got a C corp to use for this, I have 25-30k to invest. Just no experience or desire to be deeply involved with content management.

If anyone has a lot of experience, ie you've worked directly with a major paysite, are familiar with content management, can basically get the whole thing set up, plz email me at gfy at puremeds com. Preferably someone willing to put up some of their own assets to start it.

Also, will lets say 15k buy a TON of highest quality content? I want to build a totally automated system.... something where you can load a years worth of content and it auto-updates.

Thanks!

gotta go to work now so plz email. Ill be on ICQ tonight.

nike · 05-07-2003, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RocHard
Your talking about opening up a new business, which involves a ton of variables and a lot of risk.

Saw you made it on to the hall of fame at Attrition.org, watch out for those kids they play rough.

05-06-2003, 08:35 PM	#1
BJ Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: asia Posts: 5,590	What is the monthly expense of running a popular paysite? taking out paying affiliates (if any) what does it cost to run a paysite such as maxcash, ars, adult.com, etc. Im talking bandwidth, employee costs, content, and everthing else. My guess is 250k edit: I may be way off

05-06-2003, 08:40 PM	#2
Gary Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kimmykims couch Posts: 6,110	1 billllllllion dollars __________________ Up to 35$ per join...!

05-06-2003, 09:36 PM	#21
SleazyDream I'm here for SPORT Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696 Posts: 41,470	everything in volume gets cheaper to buy. __________________ This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog.

05-06-2003, 10:04 PM	#25
<IMX> Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,728	Estimates on costs are not that difficult, revenue streams and expected value of those revenue streams - payouts to traffic buys and affiliates...that is the tricky part. __________________ $$$ Check out NICHE PAY the leader of Micro Niche Sites! They offer $1 Trials! $$$ $$$ Check out 10 FREE TRIAL SALES equals 1 FREE LAP TOP ! $$$

05-07-2003, 12:19 AM	#34
UnseenWorld Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Portland, OR, USA Posts: 5,279	My nominee for stupidest thread of the year. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

05-06-2003, 08:41 PM	#4
m0rph3us Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Principality of Sealand Posts: 2,033	define 'popular' 1k members or 100k?

05-06-2003, 08:44 PM	#8
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992	take the angle of the dangle and divide it by the motion in the ocean times the push in the bush

05-06-2003, 08:55 PM	#15
Marcus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,472	I think the best guy to talk to is Mark Tiarra http://www.lumyr.com/ He knows these numbers

05-06-2003, 08:58 PM	#18
BJ Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: asia Posts: 5,590	someone needs to find that chart posted about 6 months ago on the recurring model. It was sweet. If I can get some numbers here, I have a buddy that will run some crazy stats in SAS

05-06-2003, 09:09 PM	#20
BJ Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: asia Posts: 5,590	how bout a simple expense to gross ratio

05-06-2003, 10:06 PM	#26
BJ Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: asia Posts: 5,590	I wish I could explain better where I was going w/ this... But there is no credit facility for porn.... which means that most if not all run liquid. should be taught in college.

05-06-2003, 10:39 PM	#30
BJ Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: asia Posts: 5,590	start-up incubators.. this used to be hot topic within local governence.. thinking being that attracting e-com biz would ultimately lead to self-sufficient community growth. until they found out that multi-million operations can run w/ little to no employee overhead

05-06-2003, 10:48 PM	#31
angelsofporn Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CA Posts: 3,218	i know one guy on this board that spends 30k a month just on content..let alone BW.. etc

05-06-2003, 11:50 PM	#32
FTVGirls So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 1,052	we pay 5k a month on content, and 5k a month on bandwidth. But that is peasant pay next to the tax burden.

05-07-2003, 12:38 AM	#37
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,582	Puremeds, Chat with me tomorrow again and I will give you some estimates? Looking to step into adult? Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

05-07-2003, 12:41 AM	#38
Qumbus Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 258	Hard to say.... depends on how you run the site. Do you buy content and update every day or once week, where do you buy the content, howmany members........ You can go from 1k a month for a single paysite to 20k a month for a single paysite.

05-07-2003, 07:51 AM	#39
BJ Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: asia Posts: 5,590	bump

05-07-2003, 08:14 AM	#41
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 73,704	Your talking about opening up a new business, which involves a ton of variables and a lot of risk. Opening up your own paysite can be down with very little investment. What do you really need? Content, a website, a host, and a few fees to get some credit card processing going. However, I'll warn you - The bigger you get, the more complicated it gets, and the more money you'll need to spend each month. Lightspeed Media is a great example. Steve started with one small cheerleader site by paying some models to pose for him and putting them on his little website. Then he hired me, and a few websites later another person, and more websites later another webmaster. By then we needed more equipment, more computers, and a phyiscal location to work out of. Now we have a real office in a office building, programmers to keep everything running, graphics designers, an attorney, and so on. And it's a lot of work; Steve and I both work a lot of hours. If you wanted my advice I'd say the following...... - Go with a good credit card processing company, one that's not gonna keep your money from you (Try CCBill). - Be prepared to work a lot of hours. - Make sure you hosting company has good support and good up time. - Be careful of who you hire; Everyone you hire represents you. - Go to every show you can and meet everyone you can. It's great when you have a problem to be able to pick up the phone and call some of the most important people in the industry. If you ever want to seriously talk numbers find me at a show. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION