Bush Win Doesnt Add Up - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

codymc12 · 11-05-2004, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by trouserrat
Note to all Democrats: Your hate and vitriol is killing your own party, alienating Republicans and moderate Democrats alike. You can deny it, but the elections say otherwise. By the way, I refer you to sperbonzo's above 3 posts.

Interesting point - and I'm not being sarcastic. But I'd have to disagree. Hate and vitriol went in both directions this election, and worked for the Republicans.

The guy two doors down from me has a bumper sticker, with a picture of the US on it. It says "If Kerry wins - you lose."

Another bumper sticker I saw a few weeks ago while driving said "Liberals - the Destruction of America."

And I live in CALIFORNIA, for God's sake!

The numbers involved in this election (seperated by 3 percentage points) show there is a HUGE base of non neo-conservatives in the US. This includes some of the 'Red' states - Ohio for example, that was only lost by 130,000 votes.

My point being, IMO, the democrats lost by 'trying to be all things to all people'. Whereas the Republicans motivated their base. The Democrats only real, solid message (and I am a Democrat) was: Vote against Bush. It sure was mobilizing, based on numbers - but it wasn't enough.

Kerry didn't take a strong enough stand, IMO. Example - when he said, pretty categorically "I stand for a woman's right to choose" - I started to like him. Prior to that, I really just wanted Bush out of office. In contrast, when I saw him walking around as a duckhunter, it felt like pure political maneuvering, and seemed disengenous to me.

Just my

codymc12 · 11-05-2004, 10:17 PM

damn edit screwup...

hagbard · 11-05-2004, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hey You . . . I Know You!
Everyone in Ohio was against Issue 1 EXCEPT for the inbred Ohio Jesus freaks who just want to destroy the fags - as god so desires (even though god evidently created them thar fags).

Dragging these Jesus freaks to the voting booth is exactly what Rove wanted (especially in Ohio). [/B]

Interesting ideas here. so you say that EVERYONE but the "jesus freaks" were against i1. This is similar to the idea that EVERYONE but the rednecks hate Bush. In the end, when more people disagree with you than agree with you; where do you, as a democrat, get off complaining? Are the christians not allowed to cast their vote? Is their vote not worth as much as yours in the democracy? What makes taxes a more important issue than morality? Is money the only important thing? In the end, the right found a galvanizing issue, showed the facts and that was it. Clinton wanted Kerry to support the gay marriage ban. Kerry said no. That is the FIRST that I've respected Kerry since day 1 and the first evidence that it wouldnt have been a disaster to vote for him.

Wolfy · 11-05-2004, 10:59 PM

You guys all make me laugh, I love it. I have a lot to say when it comes to politics, I listen to and watch a few different programs so I get a good mix of opinions. All I have to say about this one is....

For those of you wondering - no, I do not live on the western-west side, that is W2. W-squared. As in 4 MORE YEARS.

Steen2 · 11-05-2004, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xclusive
it doesn't add up i say audit the election and get to the bottom of it either way...

codymc12 · 11-05-2004, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hagbard
What makes taxes a more important issue than morality? Is money the only important thing? ... Clinton wanted Kerry to support the gay marriage ban. Kerry said no. That is the FIRST that I've respected Kerry since day 1 and the first evidence that it wouldnt have been a disaster to vote for him.

Agree wholeheartedly on the second point, btw. The point of taking a stand.

Re: the first part - when it comes to government, taxes IS a more important issue than morality. The problem most libs have with morality is not morality as such. It is the attempt to LEGISLATE it. That's just not the goverments purview. So in that regard, yes, taxes is a more valid issue.

I think the Dems need to abandon this concept of trying to move to the center in order to capture the morality vote. Not saying they need to be far left. But there is a huge base to be reached on this issue of legislating morality.

Imagine a Democratic Candidate saying: "Let me come right out and say, I'm not going to work to overturn Roe vs. Wade. Any more than I'm going to let an athiest overturn your right to read the bible, or preach the word of God." Or my favorite, if Kerry had said "George Bush wants to take away a woman's right to choose!"

What would Bush do in response to that - deny it? And alienate the religious right? The key for the dems is to stop being wishy washy, and take a stand.

Dynamix · 11-05-2004, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xenigo
Democrats had a DAMN strong campaign, my friend. We were out there in full force, knocking on people's doors to deliver the message of Democracy. We were driving them to the vote in masses. We had over 1000 people in both Reno and Vegas every weekend for the past several months, and talked to 40,000 people each time.

Don't tell me the Democrats didn't have a strong enough campaign when you know nothing about what we were doing. Just for the record, we didn't come across a single Rebublican during our canvassing, and I personally saw ONE Rebublican voter guide lying on the ground the entire time I was in Nevada.

Well then tell me why Kerry lost...? Obviously your campaign and/or candidate wasn't strong ENOUGH to win the election, otherwise you would have. Never said it wasn't strong.

Paul Markham · 11-06-2004, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sperbonzo
The fact that the media refuses to acknowledge is that the US is NOT that liberal. People in the US, the majority of them are:

Self-sufficient, and DON't think that the goverment, (i.e. everyone else), OWES them everything, and doesn't want the goverment interfering in the running of their businesses.

Patriotic, and think that serving in the military is an honorable thing to do.

Religious, and go to some kind of worship once a week, and think that some things are right, and some things are wrong.

Law-abiding, and believe in a strong police and jail system.

Believe in the right to bear arms, (note that 37 out of 50 states are right-to-carry states, and more coming on all the time)

etc, etc, etc....

These REALLY are the people that make up the majority of the US...it is simply distorted by both the media, and the fact that most foreign vistors go to the liberal coastal cities.

I'm not saying that liberals don't have some of those same ideals, but they tend to be MUCH more diuted on the left than the majority of the US actually feels.

Excellent post. I've driven from New York to LA and LA to Monument Valley. On the trip you drive a few miles out of a major centre and it's like stepping into a different world. Poorly educated, narrow vision and bigotry is prevelant.

Wolfy · 11-06-2004, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
Excellent post. I've driven from New York to LA and LA to Monument Valley. On the trip you drive a few miles out of a major centre and it's like stepping into a different world. Poorly educated, narrow vision and bigotry is prevelant.

I don't know if you noticed or paid attention, but you find just as many people who fit that description in any major city as you do outside of it.

I've learned from personal experience that just because people who live outside Los Angeles, New York or Chicago tend to take things slower does not mean they are less intelligent.

In fact you could argue the point that the reverse is true. Now that I think more about it - your statment was perhaps the most narrow-minded and bigoted thng I have read all day. Congratulations.

12clicks · 11-29-2004, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly
Excellent post. I've driven from New York to LA and LA to Monument Valley. On the trip you drive a few miles out of a major centre and it's like stepping into a different world. Poorly educated, narrow vision and bigotry is prevelant.

yeah, much more educated than those brilliant people living in the czech republic.

Mogulman · 11-29-2004, 11:57 AM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by kaliboy2g
You honestly thought Kerry would win?

Apart from the two coasts, everyone in between mostly worries about family ethics/morals.

And Bush being conservitive he is, pleased them and won their vote.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

Originally posted by Dynamix
Exactly. Look at the vote map, red all over except the coasts being blue.

Those Blue areas on the map represent the most dense areas of population i.e. NY, Chicago, LA. Red areas like Montana don't mean shit.

thePelican · 11-29-2004, 11:59 AM

agreed! kerry won. i have proof!

TheJimmy · 11-29-2004, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kaliboy2g
...

New York and California are horrible representations of the US.

'horrible' ?

I'd not use such a derrogative term really since the WORLD knows the US by the economy and media that comes from Cali and NY...

if it were left to Wyoming or Utah to 'represent' the US on a global level we'd be, uhm, how would you say a lot less of a 'force' on the planet

Paul Waters · 11-29-2004, 01:12 PM

I think the US election was every bit as honest as the Ukrainian election.

MetaMan · 11-29-2004, 01:16 PM

it was an honest election, Kerry was just a weak candidate.

tony286 · 11-29-2004, 01:36 PM

Winning by 4 million votes in not the majority. He didnt win by a mandate , amandate is 80% of the vote . He won with a hahahaha hair over 50%. So we are not all this rightwing christian close minded scumbags, Michael and Fox news want you to believe we are. lol

maxxxxx · 11-29-2004, 01:41 PM

The Democrats had already lost when they were too cowardly to speak out against the Iraq war - a war that virtually everyone outside of the US already knew was based on lies and made-up accusations. If an opposition is too lame to oppose and tries to be a bad copy people tend to choose the original.

Stephen · 11-29-2004, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sperbonzo
The fact that the media refuses to acknowledge is that the US is NOT that liberal. People in the US, the majority of them are:

Self-sufficient, and DON't think that the goverment, (i.e. everyone else), OWES them everything, and doesn't want the goverment interfering in the running of their businesses.

Patriotic, and think that serving in the military is an honorable thing to do.

Religious, and go to some kind of worship once a week, and think that some things are right, and some things are wrong.

Law-abiding, and believe in a strong police and jail system.

Believe in the right to bear arms, (note that 37 out of 50 states are right-to-carry states, and more coming on all the time)

etc, etc, etc....

These REALLY are the people that make up the majority of the US...it is simply distorted by both the media, and the fact that most foreign vistors go to the liberal coastal cities.

I'm not saying that liberals don't have some of those same ideals, but they tend to be MUCH more diuted on the left than the majority of the US actually feels.

Right-On

11-29-2004, 11:59 AM	#62
thePelican Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: theAtlanticOcean Posts: 663	agreed! kerry won. i have proof! __________________

11-29-2004, 01:12 PM	#64
Paul Waters Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 4,402	I think the US election was every bit as honest as the Ukrainian election. __________________ Paul

11-29-2004, 01:41 PM	#67
maxxxxx Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 646	The Democrats had already lost when they were too cowardly to speak out against the Iraq war - a war that virtually everyone outside of the US already knew was based on lies and made-up accusations. If an opposition is too lame to oppose and tries to be a bad copy people tend to choose the original. __________________ **Teen Harbour** - Home of Little Caprice ------------------------------------------------------------------- In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penisses, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship.

11-05-2004, 10:17 PM	#52
codymc12 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 719	damn edit screwup...

11-05-2004, 10:59 PM	#54
Wolfy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 3,574	You guys all make me laugh, I love it. I have a lot to say when it comes to politics, I listen to and watch a few different programs so I get a good mix of opinions. All I have to say about this one is.... For those of you wondering - no, I do not live on the western-west side, that is W2. W-squared. As in 4 MORE YEARS.

11-29-2004, 01:16 PM	#65
MetaMan I AM WEB 2.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,682	it was an honest election, Kerry was just a weak candidate.

11-29-2004, 01:36 PM	#66
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	Winning by 4 million votes in not the majority. He didnt win by a mandate , amandate is 80% of the vote . He won with a hahahaha hair over 50%. So we are not all this rightwing christian close minded scumbags, Michael and Fox news want you to believe we are. lol