New Adult Site Billing Solution - NO CHARGEBACKS! - GoFuckYourself.com

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 02:01 PM

Adult WebPassCard Launches Credit Card Processing Services for the Adult Industry

There?s a new kid on the block for adult site Credit Card Processing, Adult WebPassCard! Credit Card Processors have been dropping like flies and as a result many adult webmasters have been either completely shut down and lost their merchant accounts or have such horrible processing alternatives that apathy has set in.

Adult WebPassCard is unique in that there are NO CHARGEBACKS! Let me say that again, NO CHARGEBACKS! But that?s not all. They not only allow Free Trial signups from 20 minutes to 30 days, they also don?t hold reserves and there are no monthly volume limits! These facts as any adult webmaster that has been in the business for more than 30 days will tell you are unheard of.

Adult WebPassCard is a plug and play solution for your site. Webmasters can easily implement Adult WebPassCard for their new business with the built in member management software. If you are a webmaster who has spent considerable time and money to create your own member management solution using a gateway like Authorize.Net, you can easily integrate the Adult WebPassCard gateway into your existing software.

In this era of the online adult industry, bad news seems to come on a daily basis. It is refreshing to see some good news once in awhile. This is especially good news for adult webmasters who have lost their merchant accounts and want to get back in the game!

Visit http://www.adultwebpasscard.com for all the details.

MattO · 07-01-2004, 02:02 PM

Nice spam. Good luck.

Basic_man · 07-01-2004, 02:02 PM

You don't accept chargebacks from customers?

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 02:04 PM

Nope as long as you deliver whatever you promise on your site.

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MattO
Nice spam. Good luck.

Not spam bro.

It says right on the forum:
"One-time "program" announcements from "established" webmasters are allowed. "

This is an announcement.

Nysus · 07-01-2004, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adultwpc
Not spam bro.

It says right on the forum:
"One-time "program" announcements from "established" webmasters are allowed. "

This is an announcement.

I guess it should be more specific for language challeneged; established on this board.

Cheers,
Matt

twistyneck · 07-01-2004, 02:16 PM

I read your FAQ page. Good luck.

Mike Okitch · 07-01-2004, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adultwpc
Not spam bro.

It says right on the forum:
"One-time "program" announcements from "established" webmasters are allowed. "

This is an announcement.

With 5 posts, now THAT'S a long term reputation.

Anyways, good luck to you

Frank The Tank · 07-01-2004, 02:24 PM

sounds good ..

ModelPerfect · 07-01-2004, 02:30 PM

"Start up Fee of $999.99. Includes $500 application fee, $400 Processing Fee, $99.99 International Consortium Of Internet Merchants fee, (annually renewable) and flat per-transaction service fees of 15% to 17.5%, THAT'S ALL! "

"One [domain] to start. If you wish to add another domain the cost is a one time fee of $300.00. "

-no offense, dude, but sounds pretty expensive. Are there still the Visa fees on top of all that?

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 02:53 PM

What you see in the FAQ on the site is exactly what you get. There are no hidden fees.

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twistyneck
I read your FAQ page. Good luck.

Why don't you explain yourself?

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Okitch
With 5 posts, now THAT'S a long term reputation.

Anyways, good luck to you

I've been an adult webmaster since 1996. I think that makes me an established webmaster wouldn't you? How long have you been "established?"

ModelPerfect · 07-01-2004, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adultwpc
What you see in the FAQ on the site is exactly what you get. There are no hidden fees.

How do you get around the Visa fees? $750/year 1st year and $375/year after that? Every processor I've talked to based in the US state that's an absolute requirement for adult merchants in the US. Just curious; I'm leaving to teach a class...won't be checking back until late.

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ModelPerfect
How do you get around the Visa fees? $750/year 1st year and $375/year after that? Every processor I've talked to based in the US state that's an absolute requirement for adult merchants in the US. Just curious; I'm leaving to teach a class...won't be checking back until late.

I am not an adult merchant chump and neither should you be.

res · 07-01-2004, 03:55 PM

Do you works with gambling ? Very interesting

Oracle Porn · 07-01-2004, 04:00 PM

i would work at mcds before i trust you as my proccessor......

Cassie · 07-01-2004, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adultwpc
I am not an adult merchant chump and neither should you be.

you didnt answer his question and now i would like to know the answer to that as well.

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by res
Do you works with gambling ? Very interesting

Nothing Illegal in the US.

doornx · 07-01-2004, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adultwpc
I've been an adult webmaster since 1996. I think that makes me an established webmaster wouldn't you? How long have you been "established?"

nice hostile attitude you got there

when people shout spam here it's nothing negative..be glad they bump your thread so other people can read it as well

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oracle Porn
i would work at mcds before i trust you as my proccessor......

Why?

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cassie
you didnt answer his question and now i would like to know the answer to that as well.

There are no Visa/MC fees because as a webmaster you won't be taking Visa/MC directly. You'll be accepting WebPassCard instead.

Tempest · 07-01-2004, 04:14 PM

What references can you provide. i.e. respectible people in the biz that can vouch for you.. I also find it.. disconcerting.. that you're starting up a significant business like this but registered the domain for 1 year. Half of which is gone.. That just says "fly by night" to anyone with half a brain.

Validus · 07-01-2004, 04:18 PM

Sorry, I am kind of new to all of this, could you give us all a little background about yourself and what you have been doing the last couple of years? Who have you worked for? Who have you been processing? What is your chargeback history?

If you are solid, we may be able to do something together.

NichePay_Manny · 07-01-2004, 04:18 PM

good job guys good luck send me info

Cassie · 07-01-2004, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adultwpc
There are no Visa/MC fees because as a webmaster you won't be taking Visa/MC directly. You'll be accepting WebPassCard instead.

but you will be accepting them and customers will dispute. once you realize the means does not cover the cb's then those fees will be passed along to those processing with you. if they become too excessive, say bye bye to your merchant account and all those webmasters money that you would have because your account would end up being frozen due to the cbs.

you are just calling accepting visa and mc another name. how much different are you then any other 3rd party processor out there?

ibill, epoch, etc... they all take visa and mastercard. they all get hit with chargebacks and once those cb's reach a threshold too excessive for a period of time, the account is frozen and then terminated (granted ibill and epoch havent gone through that yet but several have). then no money for the webmasters who processed with said company(s).

doesnt add up.

Nathan · 07-01-2004, 04:21 PM

You do realize that Visa/MC will not like what you do, right? They do not like people trying out loop holes.

WarChild · 07-01-2004, 04:26 PM

Isn't this similar in structure to what Website Billing TRIED to do?
It seems to be, at least in terms of getting around visa regulations. Didn't work well for them.

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tempest
What references can you provide. i.e. respectible people in the biz that can vouch for you.. I also find it.. disconcerting.. that you're starting up a significant business like this but registered the domain for 1 year. Half of which is gone.. That just says "fly by night" to anyone with half a brain.

Don't worry the domain is on auto-renew

ABOUT WEBPASSCARD, INC.
With more than 75 years of combined management experience in credit card processing and acquiring merchant accounts, WebPassCard is revolutionizing the way people buy online so they can enjoy their privacy. WebPassCard was created to provide the consumer with a convenient way of making purchases online, without having to disclose certain confidential information: credit card numbers, birthdates, social security numbers, etc. To provide this unique global payment processing service for merchants and consumers, WebPassCard has partnered with Century Bankcard Services (CBS), a registered ISO for HSBC Bank in Buffalo, New York. With more than 5,000 merchant outlets and with processing volume rapidly approaching one billion dollars, CBS has become known in the industry for its high level of integrity, responsive customer service, and innovative marketing support. For more information, please visit Century Bankcard Services at www.centurybankcard.com or contact Scott Scherr of Century Bankcard Services at [email protected]. Adult WebPassCard is a registered agent with WebPassCard, Inc.

Not fly by night.

Pornwolf · 07-01-2004, 04:43 PM

Why would someone pay your fees and give away up to 17.5% instead of just paying $750 to CCBill, Epoch or IBill and giving up less than 15%?

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornwolf
Why would someone pay your fees and give away up to 17.5% instead of just paying $750 to CCBill, Epoch or IBill and giving up less than 15%?

When a customer decides to dispute a charge because his wife found out he's been surfing your site or whatever, we won't give that customer their money back as long as you can show that they logged into your site and you didn't try to fool or mislead them into joining your site. Isn't that the way it's supposed to be?

Cutting deductions from your account down to 0% justifies the higher fee's I would think.

WarChild · 07-01-2004, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adultwpc
When a customer decides to dispute a charge because his wife found out he's been surfing your site or whatever, we won't give that customer their money back as long as you can show that they logged into your site and you didn't try to fool or mislead them into joining your site. Isn't that the way it's supposed to be?

Cutting deductions from your account down to 0% justifies the higher fee's I would think.

That's all fine and dandy.

What are you going to do when that customer hangs up with you, calls his VISA issuing bank, and charges it back directly.

No signature, no liability. Isn't that still the case?

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 05:28 PM

No because they used their WebPassCard not a credit card.

Centurion · 07-01-2004, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adultwpc
I've been an adult webmaster since 1996. I think that makes me an established webmaster wouldn't you? How long have you been "established?"

And you expect to "win" over webmasters with an attitude like that??

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Centurion
And you expect to "win" over webmasters with an attitude like that??

Sorry I didn't realize this was about a social event. I'm here for business.

Centurion · 07-01-2004, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WarChild
Isn't this similar in structure to what Website Billing TRIED to do?
It seems to be, at least in terms of getting around visa regulations. Didn't work well for them.

Maybe they're BACK! Sounds like the attitude WB was flashing towards the end of things there.

Centurion · 07-01-2004, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adultwpc
Sorry I didn't realize this was about a social event. I'm here for business.

You just proved my point! What an ahole!

adultwpc · 07-01-2004, 05:38 PM

I see, you call me an ahole and say I have an attitude? When did I call anyone names?

Cassie · 07-01-2004, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adultwpc
we won't give that customer their money back as long as you can show that they logged into your site and

hate to tell you but the final decision comes down to the cardholders issuing bank and if it goes into pre arbitration with Visa, then Visa has the final say so on who will be penalized 350.00. you may make that decision on your end not to credit the customer and more times then not, it's a rightfully made decision but the final decision is not yours.

having 75 years of combined management in this area, you should know better then to make that statement.

Ar3s · 07-01-2004, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MattO
Nice spam. Good luck.

WarChild · 07-01-2004, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adultwpc
No because they used their WebPassCard not a credit card.

And how did they pay for their WebPassCard? By Visa. That's the charge they'll bill back.

Mike Okitch · 07-01-2004, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adultwpc
I've been an adult webmaster since 1996. I think that makes me an established webmaster wouldn't you? How long have you been "established?"

I've been in this business exactly 47 minutes if you count the 13.5 it took me to rub one out while surfing on The Hun.

But let's sum this up shall we? You've been in business since 1996, have a domain (on auto-renewal or not) that expires at the end of this year, you registered on GFY today (http://www.gofuckyourself.com/member...o&userid=34381) No one here seems to know who you are and more than one person here has accused you of having an attitude.

I'll be the first to reckon that nobody has a clue who I am, but I don't go around pimping a billing solution. I'm keeping that for after I have built that reputation thing some people have been talking about.

Anyways adultwpc, I do sincerely wish you all the best with your business

And, oh yeah, GFY actually IS a social event. People here don't do business with the ones they don't like.

chupachups · 07-01-2004, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Okitch
I've been in this business exactly 47 minutes if you count the 13.5 it took me to rub one out while surfing on The Hun.

serious · 07-01-2004, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adultwpc
No because they used their WebPassCard not a credit card.

You make 0 sense. How do you plan on stopping them from charging back their webpasscard purchase?

WarChild · 07-01-2004, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Centurion
Maybe they're BACK! Sounds like the attitude WB was flashing towards the end of things there.

There are some employees (ex now obviously) at WSB I'd love to get my hands on.

They flat out lied to us all. I had accountants, VPs, salesreps and even techs tell me "Oh don't worry, everything is good".

Okay so the lower ranked guys get a pass. But their Vice President? How did he not get charged with Fraud? I flat out asked him what the fuck was up and he told me "Everything is good ... we'll have our deposit back really soon, we'll catch up on the payouts, don't worry."

The next day, the were out of business. They couldn't have made that decision in the span of 8 hours. He flat out lied to me, and that's Fraud.

Fuckers

adultwpc · 07-02-2004, 12:35 AM

Hello again.

For a better understanding...

WebPassCard underwrites their own chargeback's.
WebPassCard is a proprietary processing system.
WebPassCard is a PROCESSOR, not a 3rd party billing system.
Chargeback determinations are made internally directly at WebPassCard, bearing no relationship to Visa/MC chargeback rules.WebPassCard's internal policy and procedures, after extensive legal research, mandate no chargeback's to the merchants if there is no fraud or deception by the merchant. Therefore, if there are no fraudulent or deceptive practices by the merchant, not only are there no chargeback's,
there are NO CHARGEBACK FEES!

Hope we can do business together!

Dravyk · 07-02-2004, 12:56 AM

If you've been in the business since '96 then a lot of old timers would know you, correct? So give some references.

Cause right now, you got a lot talk but nothing to back it up with. If you do go back that far in time in the biz and live or work in Buffalo, then GreenGuy would know you intimately, correct? I'll ask him tomorrow. Meanwhile ...

Who do we know you as, who have you worked for/with or who knows you?

If you can't answer that, you may as well close up shop right now. And btw, we like new alternatives for processing, so there's a strong desire here for this to be a genuine workable solution. But you gotta show your pedigree since you say you have one.

AWW - Kevin · 07-02-2004, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by adultwpc
I've been an adult webmaster since 1996. I think that makes me an established webmaster wouldn't you? How long have you been "established?"

Quote:

adultwpc
I scan my content from Penthouse

Registered: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 27

ok

seriously if you've been around for that long then you should know how gfy works and how to do business here.

good luck

sexsup · 07-02-2004, 01:06 AM

Good luck with your biz

TheDoc · 07-02-2004, 01:11 AM

Some people are a tad slow..

It's like epoch/paypal... Same theory.. You load an account, once a transaction is taken from that account you don't get a chargeback.

07-01-2004, 02:01 PM	#1
adultwpc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 52	New Adult Site Billing Solution - NO CHARGEBACKS! Adult WebPassCard Launches Credit Card Processing Services for the Adult Industry There?s a new kid on the block for adult site Credit Card Processing, Adult WebPassCard! Credit Card Processors have been dropping like flies and as a result many adult webmasters have been either completely shut down and lost their merchant accounts or have such horrible processing alternatives that apathy has set in. Adult WebPassCard is unique in that there are NO CHARGEBACKS! Let me say that again, NO CHARGEBACKS! But that?s not all. They not only allow Free Trial signups from 20 minutes to 30 days, they also don?t hold reserves and there are no monthly volume limits! These facts as any adult webmaster that has been in the business for more than 30 days will tell you are unheard of. Adult WebPassCard is a plug and play solution for your site. Webmasters can easily implement Adult WebPassCard for their new business with the built in member management software. If you are a webmaster who has spent considerable time and money to create your own member management solution using a gateway like Authorize.Net, you can easily integrate the Adult WebPassCard gateway into your existing software. In this era of the online adult industry, bad news seems to come on a daily basis. It is refreshing to see some good news once in awhile. This is especially good news for adult webmasters who have lost their merchant accounts and want to get back in the game! Visit http://www.adultwebpasscard.com for all the details. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

07-01-2004, 02:02 PM	#3
Basic_man Programming King Pin Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Montreal Posts: 27,360	You don't accept chargebacks from customers? __________________ UUGallery Builder - automated photo/video gallery plugin for Wordpress! Stop looking! Checkout Naked Hosting, online since 1999 !

07-01-2004, 02:04 PM	#4
adultwpc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 52	Nope as long as you deliver whatever you promise on your site. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

07-01-2004, 02:24 PM	#9
Frank The Tank Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ireland Posts: 3,225	sounds good .. __________________ aim : titanceltic icq : 307499327 Frank[@]babesandstuff.com

07-01-2004, 02:30 PM	#10
ModelPerfect Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 2,862	"Start up Fee of $999.99. Includes $500 application fee, $400 Processing Fee, $99.99 International Consortium Of Internet Merchants fee, (annually renewable) and flat per-transaction service fees of 15% to 17.5%, THAT'S ALL! " "One [domain] to start. If you wish to add another domain the cost is a one time fee of $300.00. " -no offense, dude, but sounds pretty expensive. Are there still the Visa fees on top of all that? __________________ Logan modelperfect [at] gmail.com http://www.modelperfect.com (Proudly hosted at www.webair.com )

07-01-2004, 02:02 PM	#2
MattO The O is for Oohhh Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: AUSTIN TEJAS Posts: 10,861	Nice spam. Good luck.

07-01-2004, 02:16 PM	#7
twistyneck So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hanging by the neck until dead. Posts: 4,660	I read your FAQ page. Good luck.

07-01-2004, 02:53 PM	#11
adultwpc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 52	What you see in the FAQ on the site is exactly what you get. There are no hidden fees. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

07-01-2004, 03:55 PM	#16
res Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 1,118	Do you works with gambling ? Very interesting

07-01-2004, 04:00 PM	#17
Oracle Porn Affiliate Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Icq: 94-399-723 Posts: 24,433	i would work at mcds before i trust you as my proccessor...... __________________

07-01-2004, 04:14 PM	#23
Tempest Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Location: West Coast, Canada. Posts: 10,217	What references can you provide. i.e. respectible people in the biz that can vouch for you.. I also find it.. disconcerting.. that you're starting up a significant business like this but registered the domain for 1 year. Half of which is gone.. That just says "fly by night" to anyone with half a brain.

07-01-2004, 04:18 PM	#24
Validus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 4,012	Sorry, I am kind of new to all of this, could you give us all a little background about yourself and what you have been doing the last couple of years? Who have you worked for? Who have you been processing? What is your chargeback history? If you are solid, we may be able to do something together.

07-01-2004, 04:18 PM	#25
NichePay_Manny Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 1,833	good job guys good luck send me info

07-01-2004, 04:21 PM	#27
Nathan Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,108	You do realize that Visa/MC will not like what you do, right? They do not like people trying out loop holes. __________________ "Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right." - Charlie Munger

07-01-2004, 04:26 PM	#28
WarChild Let slip the dogs of war. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bermuda Posts: 17,263	Isn't this similar in structure to what Website Billing TRIED to do? It seems to be, at least in terms of getting around visa regulations. Didn't work well for them.

07-01-2004, 04:43 PM	#30
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	Why would someone pay your fees and give away up to 17.5% instead of just paying $750 to CCBill, Epoch or IBill and giving up less than 15%? __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.

07-01-2004, 05:28 PM	#33
adultwpc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 52	No because they used their WebPassCard not a credit card. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

07-01-2004, 05:38 PM	#38
adultwpc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 52	I see, you call me an ahole and say I have an attitude? When did I call anyone names? __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

07-02-2004, 12:35 AM	#46
adultwpc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 52	Hello again. For a better understanding... WebPassCard underwrites their own chargeback's. WebPassCard is a proprietary processing system. WebPassCard is a PROCESSOR, not a 3rd party billing system. Chargeback determinations are made internally directly at WebPassCard, bearing no relationship to Visa/MC chargeback rules.WebPassCard's internal policy and procedures, after extensive legal research, mandate no chargeback's to the merchants if there is no fraud or deception by the merchant. Therefore, if there are no fraudulent or deceptive practices by the merchant, not only are there no chargeback's, there are NO CHARGEBACK FEES! Hope we can do business together! __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

07-02-2004, 12:56 AM	#47
Dravyk Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Yo, Philly! Posts: 1,202	If you've been in the business since '96 then a lot of old timers would know you, correct? So give some references. Cause right now, you got a lot talk but nothing to back it up with. If you do go back that far in time in the biz and live or work in Buffalo, then GreenGuy would know you intimately, correct? I'll ask him tomorrow. Meanwhile ... Who do we know you as, who have you worked for/with or who knows you? If you can't answer that, you may as well close up shop right now. And btw, we like new alternatives for processing, so there's a strong desire here for this to be a genuine workable solution. But you gotta show your pedigree since you say you have one. __________________ All Of 'Em Last edited by Dravyk; 07-02-2004 at 12:57 AM..

07-02-2004, 01:06 AM	#49
sexsup Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,004	Good luck with your biz

07-02-2004, 01:11 AM	#50
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	Some people are a tad slow.. It's like epoch/paypal... Same theory.. You load an account, once a transaction is taken from that account you don't get a chargeback. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation