ADL Colin

I don't think the Mayans even "talked about" any such event at all. Some years ago this guy John Major Jenkins theorized that is why the Mayan calendar was set to end (or reset) at 13.0.0.0.0 in their long count calendar. Our December whatever 2012. I don't think the Mayans left any such writing on why their calendar ends/resets then. Apparently even the "galactic alignment" he mentioned actually already occurred in 1998. In his book "Galactic Alignment" he wrote "Early on in my research, I recognised that the solstice-galaxy alignment would occur around 1998 or 1999".

So ...

1. We have no idea if the mayans were trying to arrange their calendar to end or reset when such a "galactic alignment" occurs

2. Even if they did they erred by a few years though that is certainly not a knock on their quite impressive observations and calculations.

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Darkland

You don't need to tell me, I am well studied in the Sumerian/Babylonian writings. But who are we to say it didn't happen that way. Pluto has always been suspect as a planet and more or less considered a satellite class body. Look at its bizarre orbital path that is very unlike anything else in our solar system other than comets that buzz through our system.

Look at the damage to Mars surface. It is obvious very very large objects have smashed through our solar system in the past.

Of course we will never know and as you agree must be left to interpretation based on evidence and hypothesis. Their creation myth could go a long way to explaining a few things about our earth, our moon and various other aspects. The only question: How did they come by this information?

I can't believe we are having this discussion on GFY...

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Darkland

The sad fact is, we know almost nothing about the Mayan culture. Almost all of their writings were completely destroyed in the name of Christianity as well as many of their citizens. I remember reading somewhere that there are only like 5 or 6 Mayan documents that survived which now reside in museums.

Yeah... Chalk another great victory up to religion.

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brassmonkey

yeah im freaked lol

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ADL Colin

So true. It is really sad for sure. i think it is just 4 codexes that were smuggled out by Spaniards back when all their writings were put to the bonfire. A lot of good stuff destroyed in the name of Christianity. Like In 391 Emperor Theodosius ordered the destruction of pagan temples and writings. This included works by Aristotle, Plato and so on as they were "pagan".

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2012

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ADL Colin

Well, I searched around in google looking for the source of the story on "gaga" and then funny enough it turned out to be the "Enuma Elish" which I actually have at home in a book. I never knew anything about that story supposedly containing astronomical events though. i just had it in a book with the Epic of Gilgamesh - which I always thought more interesting.

Have you heard of "Eris" yet? it was discovered less than a decade ago in our solar system and is a fair bit larger than Pluto and about 3x further out.

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Chicks Delivery

Not at all!!!!

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Darkland

Yes. And would it suprise you if I were to tell you in those same Sumerian/Babylonian creation myths that they have the number of planets at 12? They however counted the sun and our moon in those numbers, so subtract those and you get 10.

They also somehow knew that the planets past mars, the gas planets, were different than the plants this side of the asteroid belt. How?

Pretty mind boggling if you ask me.

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Blackamooka

Hey guys,

Sorry to interrupt your thread. I'm looking for a woman named Sarah Conner. Anyone seen her?

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TheDoc

I didn't bring up the galactic alignment But from what I have read on it... The human ego played a role, making us, again.. the center of something and letting the ego control us. When we are nothing but another rock floating through space.

However, spiritually I understand the galactic alignment is about the vibration of life. And around 2000, we started to slip into the stream, by 08 we are fully into it, and by 2012 we will have slipped past the center of the vibration. This vibration will, in a way awaken our other sinces. Not to a point of open awareness but to the point of true awareness of the lies happening around you.

I tend to hold to this theory more as it appears to actually be happening.

The theory of the end of times or the age, comes from the end of the Mayan calendar. They did write about the end of the age, not the end of time or the world.. and this is where all the theories of 2012 come from.. They talked about it on the giant rock they carved it into..

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2012

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ADL Colin

Yeah I read about it this morning but I thought this guy's critique was pretty good.
http://www.michaelsheiser.com/nibirupage.htm

One thing that strikes one right away is how this "12th planet" according to that guy Sitchin who first hypothesized it says the planet will pass through our solar system close to Earth every 3600 years. No such cycle is attached to "Eris". The closest it comes is 38 AU. That doesn't fit no matter how you look at it. So I don't think it is all that mind-boggling. To start with you have to take this translation by Sitchin as true and then you have to assume that Eris is this object even though Eris isn't anything like that object (no 3600 year cycle; it doesn't come close to Earth). Sitchin is a quack anyway. he said "there may be an outpost in orbit around Mars preventing current humans from getting there". His books discuss among other things ancient aliens that created we humans as slave labor 450 millenia ago. Me? I'm gonna stick with Darwin.

Now if you are into this kinda thing. Ancient aliens that visit earth, seed the planet, and bring their knowledge to ancient civilizations more power to ya -- but i don't buy it. i mean "alternative archaelogy"? Here his book :: http://www.amazon.com/12th-Planet-Ea.../dp/038039362X

In general I'm not real excited about ancient civilizations supposed knowledge of objects that can only be seen with a telescope. 1. We have no knowledge that they had telescopes. 2. All such translations that I've seen are highly contested at best. There are no clear uncontested translations of such.

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ADL Colin

Say what? You are giving them wayyyy too much credit. Fuck, I pay Mexicans to take care of my shrubs and trim my palms. Just way too many quacks out there talking about prophecies, aliens, and even Atlantis in conjunction with the Maya.

The Mayans disappeared centuries ago. Their descendants are picking through the trash for food and items to sell in the big city.

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Darkland

Well that is supposing one takes Sitchin's work as fact... I have read all his books and he has some quite fantastical ideas. I don't agree with alot of his assumptions or beliefs. I am just now starting on a new book by Cremo called Forbidden Archeaology, also dealing with Sumerian civilization.

As far as uncontested translations... They do not exist. There are disagreements in every camp of specialists who deal in translating dead languages. And as it is with all things in life, you have to pick the side you are most comfortable with.

Me? I am more willing to believe in the possiblity of the impossible happening than others might. Logic can only go so far, just as imagination can go TOO far. Find that middle ground though and we might be closer to the truth than we think.

I mean face it, until 1930 we didn't know about Pluto, let alone Eris spotted in 2003. Yet the Sumerians, in whatever scientific means they had, depicted a solar system that seems accurate to this centuries understanding of it. That is all I find mind boggling.

As far as Pluto having once been a moon and in a different location I don't really put much stock into that. Nor do I this 12th planet that moves in every few millenia. Unfortunately we will never know the answers, but it is fun to speculate.

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ADL Colin

I like you anyway.

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AnniKN

I love it when people with otherwise rational and intelligent arguments make racist and otherwise credibility-killing comments

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ADL Colin

I don't think it is the same. It is pretty clear that say the ancient Greeks knew of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. Multiple sources say so and matches up with what we know was possible with the tools at hand. Now they didn't really know what those points of light moving against the background stars was but that is another story. To go beyond that there is a large hurdle one has to leap over. Despite the kind of disagreements you speak of we have a pretty good idea of large chunks of what the greeks knew. We have the writings of Aristotle, Plato, Archimedes, Eratosthenes, Euclid. One could go on and on. i mean general knowledge there; not astronomy.

It is not contested though that the Greeks knew of Jupiter. The reason it is not contested is because there are multiple sources which say so. Another reason it is not contested is because it just makes sense that they would know of it. Hell, I've seen it plenty of times myself.

The other thing is it all has to fit logically. If a civilization was capable of viewing objects that can only be seen with a telescope then why don't they list the other objects that can be seen with even a small telescope. Such as Saturn's rings or Jupiter's moons. When i was a kid I had a telescope and pointed it at the brightest objects in the sky. First thing I noticed? Saturn's rings and Jupiters moons.

There is a reason that it is uncontested (well unless you are REAL fringe) that the ancient Greeks knew of Jupiter. And what should we think if the person who translates one particular Sumerian text and reads it that they knew of a 10th planet? A planet that has a 3600 year cycle which Eris does NOT have BTW. And what if that one author believes ancient aliens came and seeded apes to make human slaves - or whatever it is he believes? I'm thinking that knocks his credibility down a few gaps. I don't think that is middle ground. Middle ground is between where the serious published scholars are. the ones whose work is subject to the scrutiny of others. They write papers, publish for all to criticize and only the strongest theories survive. I think there is a LOT to be said for peer review. peer review is tough as hell. A real gauntlet for ideas.

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DaddyHalbucks

I'm freaked out about January 20, 2009.

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ADL Colin

Mexican ain't a race. Ask Gabe!

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ADL Colin

Taxes + 1

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ADL Colin

All joking side (some ribbing for fun ;-) ... I can't find a reference for that. Any idea? Where the stone is, the translation and so on?

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ADL Colin

Q. What are the first 3 words in every mexican cookbook?

A. steal a chicken

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firecracker

I am sure something, someday will happen that we as humans can not control. We are messing things up as they anyway....So relax, stress out if you want to, I am going to chill out and do my tiny itty bitty part to mess up the planet a little less.

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ADL Colin

http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/VA243seal.pdf

Analysis of Sitchin's claim that Sumerians knew of a 10th planet.

Highlights:

1. The inscription on the seal (left hand and right hand sides – which are not discussed by Sitchin) says nothing about planets or any element of astronomy.

2. The alleged “sun” symbol on the seal is not the sun. We know this because it does not conform to the consistent depiction of the sun in hundreds of other cylinder seals and examples of Sumero-Mesopotamian artwork.

3. If the “sun” is not the sun, then what are the dots? The dots are also stars, as is best illustrated by the Sumerian-Mesopotamian depiction of the Pleaides (seven dots together with reasonable astronomical accuracy since they are visible to the naked eye)

4. There is not a single text in the entire corpus of Sumerian or Mesopotamian tablets in the world that tells us the Sumerians (or later inhabitants of Mesopotamia) knew there were more than five planets. This is quite a claim, but is demonstrable through the work of scholars who specialize in cuneiform astronomy. Below I list all the major works on cuneiform astronomy (catalogues of texts, dissertations / books) and invite readers to check them out of a library and look for themselves. Literally every cuneiform text that has any astronomical comment (even with respect to astrology and omens) has been translated, catalogued, indexed, and discussed in the available academic literature. The tablets are often quite detailed, even discussing mathematical calculations of the appearance of planetary bodies in the sky, on the horizon, and in relation to other stars. The field is by no means new, and is considerably developed.

So the full (rather boring) inscription of VA243 reads: “Dubsiga, Ili-illat, your/his servant.” Nothing in the inscription suggests anything remotely to do with astronomy or planets.

etc etc etc

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TheDoc

The original calendars were carved into stone, they have several of them. They also have books, one being the Popol Vuh, while translated by a German it was created by the Mayans.

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ADL Colin

Yeah I know about the calendars and the books. Took a few minutes to learn how to read their long date calendar yesterday. Basically a base 20 calendar (with one exception). Pretty neat!

I mean the specific "end of an age" "prophecy" though. Or are you saying that story is in the Popol Vuh?

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Jman

I got a palet of tinfoil stored in the garage... I'll be safe ;-)

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