common practices of webhosts? - GoFuckYourself.com

xenigo · 06-08-2009, 11:27 PM

I was talking to an IT friend of mine today who has a friend who has boxes in a datacenter that he resells as a hosting service...

He mentioned that it's a common practice among webhosts to sell a virtualized machine as a so-called "dedicated server". It makes sense from a scalability perspective, but I haven't yet decided if I think it's right or wrong to sell something as something it's clearly not.

I've suspected this all along, considering that customers aren't within a physical vicinity to see their own machine with their own eyes. It really wouldn't technically matter... technically. But do you think webhosts should be more honest about what you're really buying? That you're really paying for access to more server resources, etc... and not a box entirely of your own?

What are your opinions?

hypedough · 06-08-2009, 11:30 PM

That's pretty unethical. I've never experienced anything like this.

baddog · 06-08-2009, 11:31 PM

I have heard that rumor about a couple hosts. It is wrong no matter how they try to justify it.

xenigo · 06-09-2009, 02:19 AM

Usually webhosts flock to these threads... hmm...

Barefootsies · 06-09-2009, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

I have heard that rumor about a couple hosts. It is wrong no matter how they try to justify it.

James124 · 06-09-2009, 02:48 AM

So there's money in hosting

GrouchyAdmin · 06-09-2009, 02:50 AM

It's unethical, but then again, many hosts are not intelligent enough to understand partitioning a (single) physical machine even at ring 1 does not a physical machine make.

hjnet · 06-09-2009, 02:58 AM

How do they give two clients root access to one and the same box, what happends if Client A changes his root password? Am I missing something here?

darksoul · 06-09-2009, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hjnet

Am I missing something here?

Yes.

For the issue at hand, its pretty easy to figure out if you're inside a virtual box when you get root access.

hdkiller · 06-09-2009, 03:17 AM

cat /proc/cpuinfo

SBJ · 06-09-2009, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darksoul

Yes.

For the issue at hand, its pretty easy to figure out if you're inside a virtual box when you get root access.

not all hosts will give root access and i'm sure if they were doing this they wouldn't want to

hdkiller · 06-09-2009, 03:26 AM

every user is able to read /proc/cpuinfo

-r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 2009-06-09 12:26 /proc/cpuinfo

rowan · 06-09-2009, 03:44 AM

I admin my own servers so it would be pretty easy to see if I've been shafted, but for fully managed hosting I wouldn't be surprised if some companies quietly put you onto a VPS and claim it's dedicated. Having said that I think it would be fairly rare and certainly not the norm.

I know of at least one prolific sales guy (owner?) here who started out his hosting business doing this.

sandman! · 06-09-2009, 03:48 AM

its not common at all.

there are a few hosts tho that run a whole server as a single vps to make it easier to do backups and things like that.

hjnet · 06-09-2009, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darksoul

Yes.

For the issue at hand, its pretty easy to figure out if you're inside a virtual box when you get root access.

Yes, that's what I meant, it would be a matter of minutes to find out with root access. So there are actually hosts that provide a DEDICATED server without full root access?

baddog · 06-09-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hjnet

So there are actually hosts that provide a DEDICATED server without full root access?

I know hosts that refuse to give root access on managed servers.

sandman! · 06-09-2009, 03:02 PM

yes they dont want you to fuck shit up so they do all the work for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hjnet

Yes, that's what I meant, it would be a matter of minutes to find out with root access. So there are actually hosts that provide a DEDICATED server without full root access?

xenigo · 06-09-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hjnet

Yes, that's what I meant, it would be a matter of minutes to find out with root access. So there are actually hosts that provide a DEDICATED server without full root access?

I think this thread confirms it's a common practice. Like I said, I don't necessarily have a problem with it... I guess in the name of "being green" it's best to have a virtual machine instead of wasting resources you wouldn't otherwise be using... assuming, of course, that you wouldn't otherwise be using the resources. And I suppose from the perspective of a webhost, it means the difference between infinite profitability and otherwise not being able to be a profitable business...

It explains perfectly why webhosting is so profitable, and why there's so much competition in the market.

But it still begs the question "Shouldn't you just say what you're selling? And educate the consumer as to the benefits of the product."

Phil21 · 06-09-2009, 05:46 PM

I don't think it's common at all. A few shady companies have been outed doing it, but it's 100% unethical and stupid to even try - since you WILL be found out.

Even if it's "1 VM - 1 Physical machine" setup, anyone doing this will be up-front and tell the customer why it's being done, and the benefits/drawbacks of doing so. If not, then chances are something even more shady is going on.

Moose · 06-09-2009, 05:53 PM

No it is not common, you would hear about it if it was. The amount of webmasters around here and the amount of webhosts used you would hear about it. In all my years of being in the webhosting biz I have seen it one time, and that person was outed.

xenigo · 06-09-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil21

I don't think it's common at all. A few shady companies have been outed doing it, but it's 100% unethical and stupid to even try - since you WILL be found out.

Even if it's "1 VM - 1 Physical machine" setup, anyone doing this will be up-front and tell the customer why it's being done, and the benefits/drawbacks of doing so. If not, then chances are something even more shady is going on.

I notice your prices are also substantially higher than most of the rates I've been seeing lately for dedicated machines, etc. Your prices look more reasonable for someone who's truly giving customers a dedicated machine - and not just saying you are.

Take2Hosting · 06-09-2009, 05:59 PM

I agree in that I don't believe it to be common practice. You're then essentially selling a VPS as a Dedicated Server. False advertising and obviously unethical.

Sometimes hosts sell these services under slightly different names. Such as "virtual dedicated".

For those that provide managed services I can see how they may be able to get away with this. Often times those requiring fully managed services aren't technically inclined enough to know that they're not on a "real" dedicated server.

HorseShit · 06-09-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose

No it is not common, you would hear about it if it was. The amount of webmasters around here and the amount of webhosts used you would hear about it. In all my years of being in the webhosting biz I have seen it one time, and that person was outed.

How come I believe I know who you're referring to lol

HorseShit · 06-09-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenigo

I notice your prices are also substantially higher than most of the rates I've been seeing lately for dedicated machines, etc. Your prices look more reasonable for someone who's truly giving customers a dedicated machine - and not just saying you are.

What are you talking about? Phil has some of the best prices and services in the business.

xenigo · 06-09-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin

What are you talking about? Phil has some of the best prices and services in the business.

There's a lot of companies that have dedicated servers with 5mbps connections in the $99 / month range. I'm sure he's providing a different product. That's what I'm saying.

sandman! · 06-09-2009, 06:39 PM

i dont think the website has been updated in a few years

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenigo

I notice your prices are also substantially higher than most of the rates I've been seeing lately for dedicated machines, etc. Your prices look more reasonable for someone who's truly giving customers a dedicated machine - and not just saying you are.

06-08-2009, 11:27 PM	#1
xenigo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 8,067	common practices of webhosts? I was talking to an IT friend of mine today who has a friend who has boxes in a datacenter that he resells as a hosting service... He mentioned that it's a common practice among webhosts to sell a virtualized machine as a so-called "dedicated server". It makes sense from a scalability perspective, but I haven't yet decided if I think it's right or wrong to sell something as something it's clearly not. I've suspected this all along, considering that customers aren't within a physical vicinity to see their own machine with their own eyes. It really wouldn't technically matter... technically. But do you think webhosts should be more honest about what you're really buying? That you're really paying for access to more server resources, etc... and not a box entirely of your own? What are your opinions?

06-08-2009, 11:30 PM	#2
hypedough Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Now running NATS4: HypeDough.com! Posts: 3,743	That's pretty unethical. I've never experienced anything like this. __________________ Ricky D :: Hype Dough President \| XBIZ.net \| ICQ 172-939-826 AIM+Skype HypeDough \| [NATS4] Kayden420: ['09 '10 '11 XBIZ Nominee \| Exclusive & HD] \| ThePornScout: [Exclusive + Reality \| Amateurs Want to Become Pornstars]

06-09-2009, 02:50 AM	#7
GrouchyAdmin Now choke yourself! Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 12,085	It's unethical, but then again, many hosts are not intelligent enough to understand partitioning a (single) physical machine even at ring 1 does not a physical machine make. __________________ AIM: GrouchyGfy

06-09-2009, 03:17 AM	#10
hdkiller Full time cybermage Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cyberspace Posts: 461	cat /proc/cpuinfo __________________ ClickPapa! - Buy and Sell traffic

06-09-2009, 03:26 AM	#12
hdkiller Full time cybermage Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cyberspace Posts: 461	every user is able to read /proc/cpuinfo -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 2009-06-09 12:26 /proc/cpuinfo __________________ ClickPapa! - Buy and Sell traffic

06-08-2009, 11:31 PM	#3
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	I have heard that rumor about a couple hosts. It is wrong no matter how they try to justify it.

06-09-2009, 02:19 AM	#4
xenigo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 8,067	Usually webhosts flock to these threads... hmm...

06-09-2009, 02:48 AM	#6
James124 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 261	So there's money in hosting

06-09-2009, 02:58 AM	#8
hjnet Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: European Union Posts: 3,815	How do they give two clients root access to one and the same box, what happends if Client A changes his root password? Am I missing something here?

06-09-2009, 03:44 AM	#13
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	I admin my own servers so it would be pretty easy to see if I've been shafted, but for fully managed hosting I wouldn't be surprised if some companies quietly put you onto a VPS and claim it's dedicated. Having said that I think it would be fairly rare and certainly not the norm. I know of at least one prolific sales guy (owner?) here who started out his hosting business doing this.

06-09-2009, 03:48 AM	#14
sandman! Icq: 14420613 Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: chicago Posts: 15,432	its not common at all. there are a few hosts tho that run a whole server as a single vps to make it easier to do backups and things like that. __________________ Need WebHosting ? Email me for some great deals [email protected]

06-09-2009, 05:46 PM	#19
Phil21 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ICQ: 25285313 Posts: 993	I don't think it's common at all. A few shady companies have been outed doing it, but it's 100% unethical and stupid to even try - since you WILL be found out. Even if it's "1 VM - 1 Physical machine" setup, anyone doing this will be up-front and tell the customer why it's being done, and the benefits/drawbacks of doing so. If not, then chances are something even more shady is going on. __________________ Quality affordable hosting.

06-09-2009, 05:53 PM	#20
Moose Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Here Posts: 1,548	No it is not common, you would hear about it if it was. The amount of webmasters around here and the amount of webhosts used you would hear about it. In all my years of being in the webhosting biz I have seen it one time, and that person was outed.

06-09-2009, 05:59 PM	#22
Take2Hosting Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 56	I agree in that I don't believe it to be common practice. You're then essentially selling a VPS as a Dedicated Server. False advertising and obviously unethical. Sometimes hosts sell these services under slightly different names. Such as "virtual dedicated". For those that provide managed services I can see how they may be able to get away with this. Often times those requiring fully managed services aren't technically inclined enough to know that they're not on a "real" dedicated server. __________________ Take 2 Hosting, Inc. - Hosting Done Right Fully automated setup - new servers in as little as 10 minutes Now offering Rent-to-Own options http://www.take2hosting.com/