The Demon

BFT3k reminds people that even if you're not as others, you are definitely smarter than him. Thank you BFT3k for without your constant stupidity, people with low self esteem would have nothing to live for.

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Greed is Good

BFT3K

Oh snap! Another amazing comeback from a nobody!

Hey, is it true you were really born on April 1st?

The Demon

No, you got your ass handed to you repeatedly and when you tried to make shit up, you were called out by many people on this forum until you couldn't handle the insults anymore, so you retreated into your cave of delusions in order to escape the inevitable

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Greed is Good

The Demon

Hmmm. A nobody that owns you in every aspect of life. Kinda sucks to be you huh?

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Greed is Good

BFT3K

You know you need to be at least 18 years of age to be here right?

TheDoc

It's funny now, because I know he is replying and I can't see shit

Let me guess he said "I got you first, showed you up, called you out, he is the winner?"

Yeah, that's the same shit he repeats in every post - even though so many people rag his ass, over and over...

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The Demon

You know you need an IQ above Forrest gump's to be here AND to type to me, right?

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Greed is Good

The Demon

And the captain of delusion continues. For someone that gets ridiculed as much as you on your OWN forum, I find it disturbing that you have to project your insecurities onto others

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Greed is Good

spazlabz

All the arguments about left or right are now mute. With the Supreme Court's ruling regarding corporation as entities with the same right as individuals should end all debate,

The economy won't fail because it is bad for business, except for mercs and arms manufacturers and a few other select industries.

Real democracy come this years mid terms will be a dream from the good old days. Many people who posted here are correct, politicians will give lip service to the masses while voting in the best interests in their biggest contributors, corporations

If you want to control a population the formula is very simple;
Ignorance+fear+apathy+dependence = complete control over a populace.

Ignorance, people are fed small amounts of misinformation while having their attention turned to trivial thing (entertainment TV/mindless internet pass-times etc...) Thinking is work and the largest part of the population would rather sit being entertained then spend their time educating themselves on the relevant issues of their time

Fear, in all aspects of life. Security both economically and physical should be threatened. Fear is a powerful motivator

Apathy, "Nothing I can do will make a difference, so why try. Gimme the remote and a bad of potato(e) chips and leave me alone to worry about my job and terrorists"

Dependence, Keep the people needing what only you can provide (think subsidized health care with a mandatory coverage clause)

Americans will soon be reduced to a very ingrained class system consisting of those with extreme wealth and those with no wealth dependent on the government and charities in order to get by while remaining heavily in debt and hopeless while the economy chugs along for those with wealth.

no 1012 theory here, that would be bad for business. the very rich want to make sure that the population is not driven to action but accepting of what is happening


spaz

by the way, when you buy gold you take an approximate 40% loos on your investment. If you think I am full of shit....sell your gold and see what your profit/lose is on it. Those that buy and sell it rape people too. Just because their are a bunch of commercials for it does not make it a good investment for you, but it is great for them.

The Demon

Please explain this. I bought gold around the 700 mark and I've made a hefty profit. Gold is the perfect currency and has been for thousands of years. We've prospered while on the Gold Standard. You'll need to explain yourself.

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Greed is Good

TheDoc

So true... I think Eric should make him prove his age.

He also claims to be a lawyer and going to school to be a lawyer, (even a doctor) yet my 5 year old has more skills at arguing a point than his dumb ass.

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The Demon

If your 5 year old has more skills "at arguing LOL!!!" than me, and I own you virtually every time, what does that say about you? Then again, I don't think anybody on this forum believes someone as stupid as you was able to knock up anybody without paying for it.

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Greed is Good

BFT3K

I feel bad for the thoughts that are bouncing around his empty head. It must be so sad, lonely and dark in there. It kinda creeps me out.

TheDoc

Oh don't feel bad, the only thoughts bouncing around his head are: I got you first, no I got you first, no I got you first, no I got you first.... that's how my kids argue.

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The Demon

This kid is priceless. I wonder how quickly you and TheDoc would be banned if there was an IQ test to be on this forum.

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Greed is Good

The Demon

AHAHAHA poor guy. Someone who is the butt of virtually every joke on this forum and unchallenged in his ability to make shit up, shouldn't be posting to his superiors

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Greed is Good

artwilliams

Tom Keene would vigorously disagree with you.

scubadiver626

Fear and greed. The financial bomb almost hit the banks and Wall street, but didn't.

Debt is huge but that stimulus was abolutely necessary. What happens after its gone remains to be seen.

Major indicators continue to improve, GDP, Core CPI, Treasury yields, PE Ratios, unemployment and the Long term trend is still up. Nevertheless, we are still in a recession. Your fear is understandable.

When market writers and investors all think the market is going up, thats the time to think about selling. And when everyone thinks the sky is falling, buy.

Until then it's a mixed bag. However, you cant deny the power of this rally since last March.

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BFT3K

If ignorance is bliss, you must be one happy little retard!

Caligari

there will be no collapse or major disaster.

things might get a little worse, but the worlds governments need one thing...power and control. they will not let either of these go. you think the bilderburger conferences are about how to rescue the world's financial crisis? ha! it's more like the fine art of keeping it going without pushing it to the brink.

and if by some slim chance it all does go to hell, everyone needs to blame themselves for being mindless complacent consumers and consistently voting in a bunch of douchebags for the last 30 years. this applies to other countries besides the usa as well.

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The Demon

And the delusions continue.

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spazlabz

I am not speaking specifically about buy gold on the market, but rather the people who see those Gold Line type commercials. They buy gold thinking now their money is secure. Those are not investments in the traditional sense and if they tried to sell back the gold they purchased to the gold 'buyers' they will get about a 60% ROI

We haven't been on the gold standard for a very long time. The Gold Standard as I understand it was that US Currency was guaranteed by our gold reserves. It is screamingly obvious that reserve, while it still exists, does not guarantee the nations monetary system.

WE are not on the Federal Rserve System
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System


spaz

The Demon

Oh I know rofl. That shit is a scam.

We got off in 1971. The Gold standard works very well, even if we are low on gold deposits, we could use the Gold Cover Clause ratio. Growth with the gold standard is slow, but we don't have deficits.

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Greed is Good

spazlabz

Yes, the stimulus was a good thing even though it increased national debt, it supported the financial powers that be. Without them = total socio-economic collapse. However it failed on 2 major fronts and that is it has done nothing to improve the infrastructure which is in a serious state if degradation and it has completely failed to generate jobs on any level only, at best slowing the growth of unemployment. One of the problems, probably the biggest, with the American economy is that we have moved almost all manufacturing over seas.

Manufacturing was the largest producer of 'middle class' jobs that kept the economic engine running. Give people money to spend and they will spend it. With the money being moved outside of the US by US Corporations they work against a strong healthy US economy. The divide between those with great wealth and the poor becomes wider and wider. Couple that with the apathy rampant in US society and you have a country of people who see no way out, think there is no way out and they are powerless to act on their own behalf

it is not liberal or conservative, republican or democratic, it is ugly and as long as though those who speak out are called unpatriotic it is a slow cycle that America can't escape. I don't have a crystal ball but I feel that the United States 20 years from now would be unrecognizable to those of us alive today who witnessed the slow demise of the middle class since the 1980s


spaz

The Demon

Actually, the stimulus was NOT good. It did NOT do anything other than create artificial growth and a false sense of security. The only people who believe we'd have a total collapse without stimulus are the government stimulus loving Keynesians. If we allow certain things to fail that are meant to fail, we would be out of the recession/depression cycles quickly. Deficit spending in the form of stimulus programs not only prolonges the inevitable, but makes the upcoming collapse even worse.

And yes, we used to be a manufacturing economy and turned into a service/consumption economy starting in the 70's. It's sad. That's why our trade deficit is huge.

Post WWII we experienced the greatest amount of economic prosperity in human history.

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Greed is Good

spazlabz

My memory is weak on this but I believe that is also the time period that the government started getting all deficit spending happy. To quote Jeff Foxworthy

"OH A CHECK!?............I thought you wanted money"

If you will remember back to that time the US had the strongest middle class in the world, manufacturing, while suffering from quality issues, was extremely strong. No one said "Buy American" because we already were. The OPEC fucked us over, cheap but higher quality Japanese autos began their slow rise to dominance in the auto market and when the 80s hit Reaganomics hit with the philosophy that you could get fewer workers to do more work and cut down on your biggest expense (employees) and once that was in place Clinton signed NAFTA and BOOM, it was done, I believe that was the tipping point for the American economy. After those 2 events our hostory was already written


spaz

TheDoc

True the stimulus plans helped - even though I think they didn't need to be so damn big... but spending in the time of a recession/depression has always pulled us out before, so I'm willing to wait and see if history repeats itself for about the 5th time.

Jobs are the very last thing to return, normally after a recession ends or right at the very end.

Manufacturing is over, it was dieing 30 years ago before they started to move out of the Country. Everything gets cheaper, other than what we pay Americans, pay for benefits, insurance, etc... something HAD to give.

We have more than enough jobs to replace these people, but they need to move and they aren't at $30-60 an hour with full benefits and retirement plans that are crazy. But young dumb and full of cum Americans blew it on bullshit and now have nothing.

The stimulus parts that focus on infrastructure is going to be a huge shot in the arm.. rebuilding America from the inside out, it's pretty much the strongest growth points in our history.. railroads, bridges, roads.. it's time for the next round.

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spazlabz

There is no point in arguing if the stimulus had any positive effect or not. If you get a dozen people in the same room you will get a dozen different opinions. I think the stimulus saved the financial institutions, but I think without regulation... just a return to what was established after the depression, is pointless... more abuse is going to take place so nothing is solved... so in that regard, prolonging the inevitable you and dead on
True about post WWII, baby boomers grew up in a good time, but I was speaking more along the lines of my Gen (both just post baby boomer)

spazlabz

Historically employment has been a leading indicator, spending is a lagging. That is what makes this 'recovery' so hard for Americans to accept. Its hard to tell a man the recession is on its way out when he cant find a job
The reason for the costs of pay and benefits for employees being 'crazy' is because of the corporations. Someone mentioned health care before and it strangles entrepreneurs. There is a roll for the government. Some people act that the government should not exist, I mean they do not come right out and say that but you can tell thats exactly what they are thinking. The government exist for the benefit of the people who elected them, I think that the government working with companies and examining things like tarriffs could go a long way towards re-establishing American economic power. But thats a lot of work and companies would have to tighten their belts and accept lower profit margins. But that shit aint never gonna happen!

Great point, as long as some politicians scream about socialism, vote no on every spending bill as welfare but then pump hands and pose for pictures when they can spend that money, then it will never happen. a high speed rail system in the US is my wet dream the same goes for clean energy. Not because I wear hemp sandals but because in the long term it will have a dramatic effect on foriegn policy and create cheaper energy


spaz

TheDoc

If it's an indicator, wouldn't that mean that we are really pulling out, if not already out?

From what I remember, the jobs took off in the 80's pretty much after everything else turned around... but I can't say if something else did that or not.

Not some bad ideas at all... I'm all about the capital gains tax, drop it to the floor and let companies bring money into America, hell maybe that wouldn't work today - I don't know.

America was BUILT on our social policies... good ones and bad ones, just more Americans don't realize it and think socialism means communism for some reason.

I like my hemp sandals...

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The Demon

Like I said, we had the strongest middle class post WWII. The OPEC didn't fuck us over, we fucked each other over. The tipping point was in the 70's when we got off the gold standard, started printing money, stopped saving money, and started spending more than we had. THAT is why we're fucked, for the most part. This is disregarding the sub prime mortgage crisis.

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Greed is Good

The Demon

Bro, opinions are irrelevant, it's the indicators you need to look at. I'm a fiscal conservative who follows the Austrian School of Economics. I don't believe the institutions needed to be saved. We were rewarding them for their stupidity. I love the private sector and if they can get away with ripping Americans off, they should be allowed to fail as well. Instead, Wall Street gets away with ripping people off, and gets bailed out. This is not how things are supposed to work.

We fucked up allowing Unions to take over the manufacturing industry, increasing the wages and ergo, increasing the prices.

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Greed is Good

spazlabz

In a 'normal' recession or slump it is usually employment that is the first thing to improve, with more jobs comes more spending which moves the whole process forward


spaz

The Demon

The problem is, when we moved away from the manufactoring economy and into the service economy, we were dooming a LOT of jobs. Those jobs aren't coming back anytime soon, probably not in our lifetime. We need to decrease the power of unions, we need to start producing again. According to various economic indicators, Americans are slowly beginning to understand that Obama and Bernanke are full of shit, and that our economy is NOT improving but leading towards a double dip depression.

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Greed is Good

spazlabz

OK you are a fiscal conservative so by definition you and I will agree very little. I dont generally label myself but in this case I will. I am a social liberal and fiscal left leaning moderate.

As an example. I enthusiastically endorsed and voted for Obama, With gleaming optimism I looked forward to his first term as being historical and I placed zero import on his race. I do not care that he is the first black President, in that case I am color blind.

Now I view him as completely ineffectual with no helm and absolutely no ability to lead. I will not vote for him again unless there are major changes that I had expected to see and not this spineless bobblehead that caves quicker then a bridge made of sand that is constantly on his knees to people who are laughing at him and winning the war of words

Of course opinions matter, I would rather here yours, take it in and decide if it changes my view then to debate it in an attempt to win you over to my way of thinking. I read your previous posts, realized that you are quite comfortable and committed to your point of view so it benefits me more to simply state what my views are and allow you to express yours while respecting your right to have them

Let me sum up my point by saying I have seen an awful lot of debates on GFY with almost all parties involved thinking the opposing views are morons LOL


spaz

p.s. I have enjoyed this quite a lot, the banter between you and the doc and me. But my kids are calling me out to Family Guy on [Adult Swim]

spazlabz

quick note before I lean the office for the night.... you do realize that it is exactly the work place reforms that the unions created that gave the US that strong middle class right? heh heh

BTW, I used to be a member of the UAW in Springfield Ohio, I worked for International (they build trucks and school bus chasis )


spaz

The Demon

I agree with all of this.

Well, I want to know why you think the stimulus programs helped.

The majority of people on GFY are morons. Spearheaded by the infinitely incompetent people such as TheDoc and BFT3k, I'm wondering how these people were able to find their way to a computer. If someone has an opposing view and can explain his view in a clear and concise manner as you're doing, then I'm happy to listen.

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TheDoc

Enjoyed it as well....and same here, off to melt the brain on some adult cartoons...

Anyway, it was no banter between me and the demon, the kid is a grade A douche bag, a proven liar and isn't in our Industry at all - mater of fact, he has bashed those in our Industry - everyone, including you.

So don't give that slime ball the time of day... he shouldn't even be posting here.

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The Demon

Hey Spaz, ignore the forum clown, everyone else usually does. The guy has to make up hilarious bullshit, and then project his insecurities on others. The guy is a true joke and an example why college degrees might be necessary.

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TheDoc

Posted this on the 2nd page - I'm sure the idiot has or will bump the thread, trust me.... he will - same old shit, different day.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7023

This is from StuartD, it's bad ass and totally worth it to filter out the dolts. It drops the replies, the posts, threads, it's slick!

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The Demon

In which case, this social outcast will cease to exist on this forum!

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Greed is Good

Joshua G

i dont know why people get so overly intellectual about things. fact is, once the apollo program was scrapped in 74, rockets scientists had nothing to do, so wall street hired them to manufacture the exotic financial instruments that created the calamity. it may have been prevented if the pols in DC weren't so in bed with big money special interests that they turned over the levers of government to them. But pols are weak by nature & money corrupts all massive entities. No matter what happens, the rich will be fine. That is all that history teaches us.

wig

Smartest economists alive? Commodities are the only way to go? Been buying for two years now?

Since the 2008 top in the CRB you have lost 58% to the low in 2009 and 44% at current levels.

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digitaldivas

just peeking in... i would have voted for a ron paul obama ticket btw. and also imho Sarah Palin is the dumbest bitch the republicans could ever have as a spokesperson in any sense of the word. God, I hope she runs for pres in 2012.
Not taking sides at all, I am an independent. Good points on both ends.
~ta ta

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seeandsee

its showup of world economy

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wig

That's a bit simple, don't you think??

And maybe you mean "wealthy" instead of "rich" cuz many, many rich people got wiped out in the last few years as they first lost on their home(s), then their stocks, and if they were dumb enough to seek shelter in commodities they got killed there, too (with the exception of gold and sugar).

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BlackCrayon

I agree that we need to start manufactoring things again and unions are a lot of bloat but in my opinion, necessary to some extent. Should people take pay cuts and lose their benefits to bring jobs back here? I don't think they should have to. Look at the clothing industry..in 1995 50% of clothes sold in America were made in America. In 2008 its now 5%. A HUGE drop in just 15 years. Even if people took pay cuts and lost their benefits they still couldnt compete with foreign labor.

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TheDoc

Save your breath.... he studied under the best and posts on GFY too - It's a deadly combo of lies and stupid mixed into one.

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mmcfadden

please revisit this thread... email me... send me 100 hundo. ty

http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=952482

email is listed 2 times

wig

Yeah, he does not seem too interested in responding to the points I made.

I'm interested in the inflation vs deflation scenario. It seems to me that 99% of the bears (who I think are on the right side) have this dooms day scenario of dollar demise / hyperinflation even though that is not what is taking place currently.

If one is just theorizing or prognosticating on the future, that is one thing. But, if one is actually investing / trading, mistaking what is at play will be painful.

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