My tube thoughts and a question for you guys... - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

pr0 · 09-25-2009, 07:29 AM

50 thoughts...........

alias · 09-25-2009, 07:29 AM

Fifty one deep thoughts. pr0 stop reading my mind today wtf!

Stardust_ · 09-25-2009, 07:39 AM

You're saying "stolen content" isn't the reason why Tubes are better than TGPs... well no shit you fucking clown...

The STOLEN CONTENT affects the PAYSITES that don't get nearly as much sales / conversions due to STOLEN CONTENT on Tubes... nothing to do with TGPs you fucking bozo the clown

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

The pathetic reality is that arguments about "tubes" are NO DIFFERENT than every argument that's existed since day on in this biz.

Everyone has always blamed everything else for their own failure. The reality is that this is a business that has evolved and changed very rapidly, as has technology, content, content delivery, connection speeds, market tastes/user expectations, copyright issues, user now having many experiences as members (bad and good) and so on.

There is not other industry on this planet that has/and has had a more adversarial relationship with its own market/customers. The mantra in 97/98/99 etc was "surfers are stupid"... and although that mentality has faded some, people in this industry seem to still seem to feel that they can dictate to users what they will get, rather than focusing on giving them what they want.

Be honest with yourself. Where do you surf for porn? sleazydream.com? Of course not. What fucking moron would? You head right to where you can get what you're looking for, without games, without deception, without blind links. Then at the same time, you act like tubes are unfairly killing your shitty, deceptive, unfriendly sites.

Pornhub/keez/tube8 are still kicking ass in Google and have been for a couple years now. WHy? Do you care? Do you know? They've been putting in the work right in front of your face. They've been buying up links where they can, they've been doing very clever trades and building up other sub networks. They have MANY copies of their tube sites, on other domains that i don't see people complaining about. And you worry about them stealing? Stealing or not stealing has nothing to do with the fact that they are sucking up search traffic.

The idea that pornhub.com owns the top "porn" phrases in Google because of "stolen content" is laughable. If you believe that, you have no business owning a website. They have embarked on a very aggressive and well thought out and well managed linking campaign for several years now. They owned you. Period. You can bitch about "stolen content" and you won't change the fact that their visitors have NOTHING to do with "stolen content". Their search traffic won't change one bit tomorrow (to tube8, keez etc) based on whether or not a video is licensed to them or not. They will still be kicking your asses in the SERPs.

This business has always been its own worst enemy. And while everyone is arguing about law, virtue, morals, ethics or whatever the fuck... there has NEVER been a shortage of people to slide in, break every rule and dominate while you morons preach from your soap box.

TGP's, MGP's and link lists are dead. Not today... but they are dying. They aren't going to one day suddenly become "not dead" anymore than horses are going to become the primary mode of transportation again. Are you really so detached from the customer that you can't understand that people would rather go right to a video site and watch what they want than spend 20 minutes clicking around your shitty sites, being redirected, clicking 80% blind links etc? Really? You can't understand that?

... and those that have accepted that massive change is happening that they can't keep up with... can only blame one last thing for their failure... "stolen content" - but the fact remains that pornhub.com, tube8.com, keezmovies.com and a few others will remain at the top of the SERP's because they are kicking your asses with basic SEO... not because a site has stolen content on it. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you will be able to admit to yourselves that you have some work to do, or that maybe you should move on and spend your time doing something that will yield a return, ... maybe construction or something.

BigDeanEvans · 09-25-2009, 07:45 AM

Only thing there is to do now is find the people running the tubes and smash their fucking skulls in with a baseball bat.

mpahlca · 09-25-2009, 07:49 AM

Love whoever posted that they live in the US genious comment really know what you are talking about fantastic keep up the great detective work.

Libertine · 09-25-2009, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488

bounce rates are not as big a factor as people think, if at all.

there are tgps and other sites that rank well too, but guess what, they are everywhere also busting their asses seo-wise.

the tubes-rank-well-due-to-bounce-rates is a cop out.

Right now, bounce rates are already a fairly big factor. In the future, that will only increase. Moreover, tubes also get more truly organic links, since surfers are more inclined to post links to stuff they truly enjoy.

The "SE rankings are all about SEO" bullshit is one of the reasons so many people in this business are failing.

Search engines try to give the most relevant sites the best rankings. SEO is about either displaying your relevance to the search engines or faking relevance. However, if a site has the benefit of actually being relevant, it will always have a basic advantage. Given equally valid SEO strategies, the most relevant site will almost always come out on top.

For surfers, the illegal tubes provide the most relevant content. As SE algorithms continue to improve, their advantage will continue to grow.

That is why legal tubes featuring only 2-5 minute clips have no chance in hell of winning the battle. The ones featuring long vids not only get bookmarked and shared more by surfers, they also get better rankings as the search engines continue to improve.

The path from CJs to linklists to TGPs to MGPs to blogs to tubes wasn't a coincidence, nor is it reversible. Centralized high-quality content is the golden standard of popularity. Because in the end, what matters is relevance. Give surfers more of what they want and they will almost inevitably end up coming to you in great numbers.

Agent 488 · 09-25-2009, 08:03 AM

try to rank for for a competitive porn keyword without a multi-year sustained incredibly aggressive seo campaign and just rely on your killer bounce rate and surfer links then. good luck with that.

give me a break. save that shit for the noobs at dp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine

Right now, bounce rates are already a fairly big factor. In the future, that will only increase. Moreover, tubes also get more truly organic links, since surfers are more inclined to post links to stuff they truly enjoy.

The "SE rankings are all about SEO" bullshit is one of the reasons so many people in this business are failing.

Search engines try to give the most relevant sites the best rankings. SEO is about either displaying your relevance to the search engines or faking relevance. However, if a site has the benefit of actually being relevant, it will always have a basic advantage. Given equally valid SEO strategies, the most relevant site will almost always come out on top.

For surfers, the illegal tubes provide the most relevant content. As SE algorithms continue to improve, their advantage will continue to grow.

That is why legal tubes featuring only 2-5 minute clips have no chance in hell of winning the battle. The ones featuring long vids not only get bookmarked and shared more by surfers, they also get better rankings as the search engines continue to improve.

The path from CJs to linklists to TGPs to MGPs to blogs to tubes wasn't a coincidence, nor is it reversible. Centralized high-quality content is the golden standard of popularity. Because in the end, what matters is relevance. Give surfers more of what they want and they will almost inevitably end up coming to you in great numbers.

alias · 09-25-2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpahlca

Love whoever posted that they live in the US genious comment really know what you are talking about fantastic keep up the great detective work.

Seriously.

Pleasurepays · 09-25-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stardust_

You're saying "stolen content" isn't the reason why Tubes are better than TGPs... well no shit you fucking clown...

The STOLEN CONTENT affects the PAYSITES that don't get nearly as much sales / conversions due to STOLEN CONTENT on Tubes... nothing to do with TGPs you fucking bozo the clown

first, i was talking about the constant bitching about tubes as being the source of all problems in adult.

second, that's total bullshit. show me reality kings content on tube sites. you can't. now show me that reality kings converts 10 times better than similar paysites WITH their content on tube sites. you can't. that correlation doesn't exist.

third, people do shit loads of pay site sales from tube sites... and the traffic converts.. which again, contradicts every point made against tube sites.

gideongallery · 09-25-2009, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine

Right now, bounce rates are already a fairly big factor. In the future, that will only increase. Moreover, tubes also get more truly organic links, since surfers are more inclined to post links to stuff they truly enjoy.

The "SE rankings are all about SEO" bullshit is one of the reasons so many people in this business are failing.

Search engines try to give the most relevant sites the best rankings. SEO is about either displaying your relevance to the search engines or faking relevance. However, if a site has the benefit of actually being relevant, it will always have a basic advantage. Given equally valid SEO strategies, the most relevant site will almost always come out on top.

Quote:

try to rank for for a competitive porn keyword without a multi-year sustained incredibly aggressive seo campaign and just rely on your killer bounce rate and surfer links then. good luck with that.

give me a break. save that shit for the noobs at dp.

you need to read this more carefully i have underlined bold and highlighted the relevent point.

this has more to do with the length and quality of the movie then weather it is stolen or not.

i have done the tests and some of you guys should too, make up to pages optimize them equally one with a 2 minute clip and one with the full movie.

do the same seo on both, get the same quality inbound links and see which one ranks higher

the full movie will rank higher every time.
google and bing both consider bounce rate in the equation. people going to a page and hanging out for 10 minutes makes google think the page is more relevent.

Barefootsies · 09-25-2009, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

I say either do something or shut up.

True dat.

Stardust_ · 09-25-2009, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

first, i was talking about the constant bitching about tubes as being the source of all problems in adult.

I don't think anyone thinks tube sites are the source of ALL the problems in adult. If they do, they're fucking stupid. But I think it's more so that you have a problem differentiating between 'serious' remarks against tubes, and sarcastic ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

second, that's total bullshit. show me reality kings content on tube sites. you can't. now show me that reality kings converts 10 times better than similar paysites WITH their content on tube sites. you can't. that correlation doesn't exist.

Doesn't matter. Paysites are affected in two ways. Yes, I believe keeping your (full length/hq) off tube sites WILL keep your conversion rates higher, if complimented with sample tube videos / legit affiliate links / other means of good marketing. But you've missed part of the point here. The fact that illegal tubes exist in general (whether they specifically host your content or not) still provides surfers with a quick fix to jacking off while they're horny as opposed to taking out the creditcard. If you run: lame-reduntant-uncreative-realitykings-program here, and keep your content off tubes, your conversion rate may still be down because even though a surfer can't access your content directly of washedup-overused-slutwhore-pornstar there, they can access other scenes of washedup-overused-slutwhore-pornstar from some other scene where the webmaster didn't decide to complain to the tube to get it removed.[/QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleasurepays

third, people do shit loads of pay site sales from tube sites... and the traffic converts.. which again, contradicts every point made against tube sites.

Okay so I guess you're an illegal tube site owner then? Find his IP and get'em guys!!!.... how do you know that? Do you have access to stats? I'm sure tube sites make sales... when you pound your site with millions of hits of traffic, you're bound to make a couple hundred a day per banner/affiliate. The conversion ratios are actually horrid, but with that kind of volume, you're still making some money (but not as much as you are on advertising).

I had a friend that was running a pretty big tube site a few years back, not sure what his deal is now, but back then he was making incredible amounts of money off CPM advertising because his tube had so much traffic... of course he'd make SOMETHING off affiliate links, but the conversion rates were horrible, even in comparison to a spammy misdirecting TGP.

BradM · 09-25-2009, 08:34 AM

Agent 488 · 09-25-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideongallery

do the same seo on both, get the same quality inbound links and see which one ranks higher

the full movie will rank higher every time.
google and bing both consider bounce rate in the equation. people going to a page and hanging out for 10 minutes makes google think the page is more relevent.

i was going to write a reply ... fuck it, the people who get it get, those that don't don't.

epitome · 09-25-2009, 08:46 AM

The easiest way to get rich is on the back of someone else. Bill Gates can tell you all about this. If you don't want to do it on the back of someone else, the second easiest way is through loopholes in the law. Tens -- perhaps hundreds -- of billions of dollars have been made with loopholes.

One way to shut up 3/4 of the webmaster community would be for these big tubes to launch an affiliate program with white label tubes. Most webmasters would then be OK with things and even willing to look the other way. The content producers would still be fucked, but that is a much smaller percentage of folks.

That's the reality of how the world (and this industry) works.

GetSCORECash · 09-25-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradM

LOL

I wouldn't find this funny normally, but in this thread it is...

Stardust_ · 09-25-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradM

True

8chars

Libertine · 09-25-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488

try to rank for for a competitive porn keyword without a multi-year sustained incredibly aggressive seo campaign and just rely on your killer bounce rate and surfer links then. good luck with that.

give me a break. save that shit for the noobs at dp.

Read it again, you damn noob.

Or better yet, read your own damn post, the one I just quoted. Do you understand what the word "competitive" means?

In case you don't: there will be a number of companies competing for competitive keywords, a number of them all using a "multi-year sustained incredibly aggressive seo campaign".

Try and guess which one comes out on top. The one with a great SEO campaign and nothing else, or the one with a great SEO campaign, low bounce rates and a shitton of surfer links.

Not to mention the fact that spontaneous links are great at looking like the kind of links that search engines value most - because they actually are the kind of links that search engines value most.

Again: search engines try to provide relevant results. The best starting point for appearing relevant is actually being relevant. It really should not be that fucking hard to understand.

SoloGirlsContent · 09-25-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488

because people know how to make money with brazzers and don't know how to make it with tubes.

Stardust_ · 09-25-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stardust_

I don't think anyone thinks tube sites are the source of ALL the problems in adult. If they do, they're fucking stupid. But I think it's more so that you have a problem differentiating between 'serious' remarks against tubes, and sarcastic ones.

Doesn't matter. Paysites are affected in two ways. Yes, I believe keeping your (full length/hq) off tube sites WILL keep your conversion rates higher, if complimented with sample tube videos / legit affiliate links / other means of good marketing. But you've missed part of the point here. The fact that illegal tubes exist in general (whether they specifically host your content or not) still provides surfers with a quick fix to jacking off while they're horny as opposed to taking out the creditcard. If you run: lame-reduntant-uncreative-realitykings-program here, and keep your content off tubes, your conversion rate may still be down because even though a surfer can't access your content directly of washedup-overused-slutwhore-pornstar there, they can access other scenes of washedup-overused-slutwhore-pornstar from some other scene where the webmaster didn't decide to complain to the tube to get it removed.

Okay so I guess you're an illegal tube site owner then? Find his IP and get'em guys!!!.... how do you know that? Do you have access to stats? I'm sure tube sites make sales... when you pound your site with millions of hits of traffic, you're bound to make a couple hundred a day per banner/affiliate. The conversion ratios are actually horrid, but with that kind of volume, you're still making some money (but not as much as you are on advertising).

I had a friend that was running a pretty big tube site a few years back, not sure what his deal is now, but back then he was making incredible amounts of money off CPM advertising because his tube had so much traffic... of course he'd make SOMETHING off affiliate links, but the conversion rates were horrible, even in comparison to a spammy misdirecting TGP.

Your lacking of a response must mean you agree. Glad you now understand your misunderstandings.

tranza · 09-25-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toma

sig spot .

wargames · 09-25-2009, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr0

It's a perfect storm right now against existing sites/webmasters.

1) Bandwidth is becoming cheaper in 3rd world countries. More people are "webmastering" & saturating existing methods like never before.

2) Bandwidth is becoming almost "free" at high levels at hosting companies. Where it used to cost a host $30mbps, then to $20, then to $15....then to like $8 last year. And now most hosts are paying maybe $4mbps (retail) for the highest end providers. If they push even a little volume. The biggest hosts will soon be paying $0.50.

3) SE masters have set up their own tube sites. This has the biggest impact on organic SE traffic/relating to conversions on free porn keywords. People like 3pic (who runs tube8 etc), who have owned the best keywords for years, now run full length video sites & surfers only really need to bookmark 1 page now for EVERYTHING. Let me say this again....3pic & his network, are some of the best search engine guys in the world (especially with teen keywords). I am just using them as an example though. But as a search engine guy myself, I have a lot of respect for what 3pic/tube8 has been able to do with organic search. I do NOT player hate.

The search engine masters will not be able to run the show forever though. As more "legal" tube sites open on decent domains, surfers will be sent to 2min vid clips, which is no different than the old MGP style sites & the prevalence of tubes (as related to search engine queries) will become less diluted.

I think people just need to keep their head down & ride out the storm (by working hard & shutting up). If you want to do something about it.....set up your own legal tube with 1-2minute clips. Start getting your piece of organic search traffic & it will dilute the effectiveness of the illegal tubes. You can do the same exact thing with traffic trading & tube sites

Great post

wargames · 09-25-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libertine

Right now, bounce rates are already a fairly big factor. In the future, that will only increase. Moreover, tubes also get more truly organic links, since surfers are more inclined to post links to stuff they truly enjoy.

The "SE rankings are all about SEO" bullshit is one of the reasons so many people in this business are failing.

Search engines try to give the most relevant sites the best rankings. SEO is about either displaying your relevance to the search engines or faking relevance. However, if a site has the benefit of actually being relevant, it will always have a basic advantage. Given equally valid SEO strategies, the most relevant site will almost always come out on top.

For surfers, the illegal tubes provide the most relevant content. As SE algorithms continue to improve, their advantage will continue to grow.

That is why legal tubes featuring only 2-5 minute clips have no chance in hell of winning the battle. The ones featuring long vids not only get bookmarked and shared more by surfers, they also get better rankings as the search engines continue to improve.

The path from CJs to linklists to TGPs to MGPs to blogs to tubes wasn't a coincidence, nor is it reversible. Centralized high-quality content is the golden standard of popularity. Because in the end, what matters is relevance. Give surfers more of what they want and they will almost inevitably end up coming to you in great numbers.

We have a legal tube site and it out ranks a lot of the illegal ones.

raymor · 09-25-2009, 12:22 PM

When I started, adult was mostly small sites with stolen content.
Then slowly the small sites with legal content took over, because criminals are generally stupid.
Then some people stole a bunch of content and made bigger sites.
Next, people bought a bunch of content and made bigger legal sites.
The legit guys did better with bigger sites because criminals are stupid and
burn their friends, while legit operators do things right.
Next, webmasters complained about TGPs, until they learned how to make
money with legal TGPs.
Next, a new round of thieves started doing illegal tube sites. After a while, a
couple of legal tubes popped up.
Based on history, I'm betting that the legitimate operators will take over tubes
just like they've taken over everything else in time. Remember, the tube operators
are thieves - thieves with big bandwidth bills. Eventually, they fuck their hosts and
stop paying those bills, while the legit guy keeps building a relationship with the
same hosts they've been with for years. While the thief works on moving to a new
host, the legit tube guy is working on traffic. The thieves eventually try to rip off
their sponsors, because they are thieves after all. While the thieves are setting up
new sponsors, the legit guy is building traffic. The thieves, being thieves, then try
to rip off their partners. The legit guy keeps building traffic with his loyal partners.
All in all, the bad guys tend to be a flash in the pan in this industry - they flare up,
but don't last long. The good guys keep on going for decades. After 12 years of
doing the right thing and treating people right, if we ever ran into a big problem I
could make a couple of phone calls and get just about whatever help we need from
guys like Shap who know and trust us. When the thief gets in trouble, he goes out
of business because he's burned everyone who could help him.

It's just like one fugitive I chased when I was in a different sector of the security
industry - since she was a thief by nature she had at one time or another fucked
over just about everyone she knew, so they were all willing to help us track her down
and lock her up.

The bad guys always lose in the end, but as some have said how long it takes them to
lose is directly related to how the webmaster community in general responds. If everyone
refused to do business with the tubes and anyone associated with the tubes they'd
be gone pretty quick. If most webmasters don't care that the thieves are killing the
companies who produce what the industry sells, they could be around a lot longer and
do a lot more damage.

Just like our fugitive - she stayed out there ripping off everyone she met just until
they all decided they'd had enough and stopped putting up with it. How long will the
adult industry as a whole put up with these thieves ripping us off?

Why · 09-25-2009, 01:46 PM

arent you all tired of having this argument? the horse is fucking dead! stop beating it!

i do think its funny that some of these sites were built almost entirely on stolen content and now they are selling ad space to the same people they pirated stuff from. but life is a bitch and then you die!

WWC · 09-25-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

Ok my last thread didn't go over too well

so I thought I'd start fresh with my main points. I'm really not good at getting my point across especially when it's touchy subjects. My natural tendency is always to try to get a rise out of people and that usually doesn't work out too well lol.

Tubes that steal content piss me off and are bad for the industry. You will never hear me argue otherwise. I personally believe they exist because of the DMCA loophole. I may be wrong but I think if they didn't have the DMCA law to hide behind things would be very different. Unfortunately for the time being that is what they get to hide behind.

The sad thing is the majority of people complaining this week about tubes have done nothing but complain for 3 years now. I know complaining on GFY is the easiest and quickest way to feel you've contributed. But really it does nothing to help push the industry away from allowing these guys to exist. That was the point I wanted to get across in my last thread. Enough complaining already. I say either do something or shut up. If you feel these guys are that bad then start boycotting. Boycott every company running these type of tubes. Boycott every company sponsoring these tube companies. Be public about your boycott. Instead of spending time refreshing threads on gfy spend that time getting more people together to fight the cause you are putting forth. If you are fair and decide to deal with absolutely no company that deals with these sites then you may get somewhere. If the group grew to 50 to 100 affiliates that refuse to do business with anyone sponsoring tube sites (or go even further and not do business with anyone who does business with those that sponsor these tube sites) then you may get somewhere.

There is one problem with that type of boycott and one reason it hasn't happened. The companies that are working with tube sites, generally speaking, have the best content and they are the companies affiliates really want to work with. I think it goes without question that Brazzers, Reality Kings, Bang Bros, Naughty America, Twistys, Nubiles, Ftv Girls all produce some of the best content online today. The reality is when you are spending the type of money we are on content sitting back you can't sit back and watch your content get raped on these tube sites. Not only would our content be raped but our competition would be snatching up valuable branding space. It's nice to be the one guy who takes a stand in the industry but this is a business.

Now here is my question to you guys...

Why is it ok for Brazzers to skin the board (and sponsor gfy) but a TrafficJunky skin is not ok?

Davy · 09-25-2009, 02:26 PM

I think it's weird that people like to call out "illegal" tubes, while they support the legal ones.

What we are witnessing is a case of external effects that affect everybody in the market.

I think we can all agree that a "legal" site like bigtube (I am assuming all their videos are licensed) can give away as many 25+ minute clips as they want. If they think they can sell the HD versions while giving away the low-res videos for free... let them do that.

But this business practice has an adverse effect on everybody's business.
Both the LEGAL and ILLEGAL tube sites are hurting this business.

gideongallery · 09-25-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davy

I think it's weird that people like to call out "illegal" tubes, while they support the legal ones.

What we are witnessing is a case of external effects that affect everybody in the market.

I think we can all agree that a "legal" site like bigtube (I am assuming all their videos are licensed) can give away as many 25+ minute clips as they want. If they think they can sell the HD versions while giving away the low-res videos for free... let them do that.

But this business practice has an adverse effect on everybody's business.
Both the LEGAL and ILLEGAL tube sites are hurting this business.

Joshua G · 09-25-2009, 03:44 PM

IMO a tubes legality is only relevant to those whose content was stolen. the average surfer does not differentiate. tubes are a component of the darwin theory of the strong surviving. the big porn producers are backing the big tubes & killing the weaker players. it should be no surprise that playboy helps the tubes. in time, those making vanilla porn that is no different than the big boys have no chance. besides, there is far too much porn that does not stand out in any way. consolidation was inevitable in porn, tubes or no tubes.

The key to success is producing innovative content & creating standout publicity to build a brand name. content theft can dilute your success but cannot kill it unless you have nothing new to offer the world. so i agree with shap that whining is pointless.

Tubes are here to stay. they are the earliest incarnation of the future of porn distribution, which resembles the broadcast model - you give away the content & monetize the traffic with ads & affiliates. The web is still young, but in a generation the power to create an audience will dwarf the highest TV ratings. so think about how you position your content to succeed in the glut of free content.

but who am i but a dumb porn consumer? LOL

Nautilus · 09-25-2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davy

I think it's weird that people like to call out "illegal" tubes, while they support the legal ones.

What we are witnessing is a case of external effects that affect everybody in the market.

I think we can all agree that a "legal" site like bigtube (I am assuming all their videos are licensed) can give away as many 25+ minute clips as they want. If they think they can sell the HD versions while giving away the low-res videos for free... let them do that.

But this business practice has an adverse effect on everybody's business.
Both the LEGAL and ILLEGAL tube sites are hurting this business.

Well those are legal but dumb tubes, and I do not think they're doing much harm because generic filler content they license in bunches is not going to hurt sales at those sites that have more or less unique stuff produced in house.

But still those legal tube sites that use sponsor content and promote paysites are much better or course, and they're more profitable because they have paysite sales in addition to their income from ad spots.

Boobzooka · 09-25-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpahlca

Love whoever posted that they live in the US genious comment really know what you are talking about fantastic keep up the great detective work.

My understanding is that the owners of some of the biggest illegal tubes are Americans or Canadians, citizens of countries where copyright law is supposed to be enforced. As are the hosts. That's just hearsay, so correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't smell like a product of Nigeria.

Libertine · 09-25-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wargames

We have a legal tube site and it out ranks a lot of the illegal ones.

Then your seo strategy is better than theirs.

Illegal full-length content isn't the end-all be-all of rankings and traffic, it's just a large competitive advantage.

Compare it to professional sports:

site concept = innate talent
business plan = technique
working hard = training hard
moment of entry = starting age
stolen content = doping

Doping gives a major edge, but if the other factors are missing it won't be enough. Without talent, training and technique you'll probably never become a world-class athlete. Likewise, without a good concept, a good business plan and hard work, you'll probably never develop a successful site.

However, just like illegal doping, stolen content can put you ahead of the competition if you get the other stuff right as well.

09-25-2009, 07:29 AM	#51
pr0 rockin tha trailerpark Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: ~Coastal~ Posts: 23,088	50 thoughts........... __________________ __________ Loadedca$h - get sum! - Revengebucks - mmm rebills! - webair (gotz sErVrz)

09-25-2009, 07:29 AM	#52
alias aliasx Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 19,010	Fifty one deep thoughts. pr0 stop reading my mind today wtf! __________________ https://porncorporation.com

09-25-2009, 07:49 AM	#55
mpahlca Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,821	Love whoever posted that they live in the US genious comment really know what you are talking about fantastic keep up the great detective work. __________________ I could give two shits wether you read this sig or not.

09-25-2009, 12:22 PM	#74
raymor Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,745	When I started, adult was mostly small sites with stolen content. Then slowly the small sites with legal content took over, because criminals are generally stupid. Then some people stole a bunch of content and made bigger sites. Next, people bought a bunch of content and made bigger legal sites. The legit guys did better with bigger sites because criminals are stupid and burn their friends, while legit operators do things right. Next, webmasters complained about TGPs, until they learned how to make money with legal TGPs. Next, a new round of thieves started doing illegal tube sites. After a while, a couple of legal tubes popped up. Based on history, I'm betting that the legitimate operators will take over tubes just like they've taken over everything else in time. Remember, the tube operators are thieves - thieves with big bandwidth bills. Eventually, they fuck their hosts and stop paying those bills, while the legit guy keeps building a relationship with the same hosts they've been with for years. While the thief works on moving to a new host, the legit tube guy is working on traffic. The thieves eventually try to rip off their sponsors, because they are thieves after all. While the thieves are setting up new sponsors, the legit guy is building traffic. The thieves, being thieves, then try to rip off their partners. The legit guy keeps building traffic with his loyal partners. All in all, the bad guys tend to be a flash in the pan in this industry - they flare up, but don't last long. The good guys keep on going for decades. After 12 years of doing the right thing and treating people right, if we ever ran into a big problem I could make a couple of phone calls and get just about whatever help we need from guys like Shap who know and trust us. When the thief gets in trouble, he goes out of business because he's burned everyone who could help him. It's just like one fugitive I chased when I was in a different sector of the security industry - since she was a thief by nature she had at one time or another fucked over just about everyone she knew, so they were all willing to help us track her down and lock her up. The bad guys always lose in the end, but as some have said how long it takes them to lose is directly related to how the webmaster community in general responds. If everyone refused to do business with the tubes and anyone associated with the tubes they'd be gone pretty quick. If most webmasters don't care that the thieves are killing the companies who produce what the industry sells, they could be around a lot longer and do a lot more damage. Just like our fugitive - she stayed out there ripping off everyone she met just until they all decided they'd had enough and stopped putting up with it. How long will the adult industry as a whole put up with these thieves ripping us off? __________________ For historical display only. This information is not current: support@bettercgi.com ICQ 7208627 Strongbox - The next generation in site security Throttlebox - The next generation in bandwidth control Clonebox - Backup and disaster recovery on steroids

09-25-2009, 02:26 PM	#77
Davy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 4,323	I think it's weird that people like to call out "illegal" tubes, while they support the legal ones. What we are witnessing is a case of external effects that affect everybody in the market. I think we can all agree that a "legal" site like bigtube (I am assuming all their videos are licensed) can give away as many 25+ minute clips as they want. If they think they can sell the HD versions while giving away the low-res videos for free... let them do that. But this business practice has an adverse effect on everybody's business. Both the LEGAL and ILLEGAL tube sites are hurting this business. __________________ --- ICQ 14-76-98 <-- I don't use this at all

09-25-2009, 07:45 AM	#54
BigDeanEvans So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,368	Only thing there is to do now is find the people running the tubes and smash their fucking skulls in with a baseball bat.

09-25-2009, 08:34 AM	#63
BradM Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: 1123,6536,5231 Posts: 3,397

09-25-2009, 08:46 AM	#65
epitome So Fucking Lame Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 12,156	The easiest way to get rich is on the back of someone else. Bill Gates can tell you all about this. If you don't want to do it on the back of someone else, the second easiest way is through loopholes in the law. Tens -- perhaps hundreds -- of billions of dollars have been made with loopholes. One way to shut up 3/4 of the webmaster community would be for these big tubes to launch an affiliate program with white label tubes. Most webmasters would then be OK with things and even willing to look the other way. The content producers would still be fucked, but that is a much smaller percentage of folks. That's the reality of how the world (and this industry) works.

09-25-2009, 01:46 PM	#75
Why MFBA Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: PNW Posts: 7,230	arent you all tired of having this argument? the horse is fucking dead! stop beating it! i do think its funny that some of these sites were built almost entirely on stolen content and now they are selling ad space to the same people they pirated stuff from. but life is a bitch and then you die!

09-25-2009, 03:44 PM	#79
Joshua G dumb libs love censorship Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,198	IMO a tubes legality is only relevant to those whose content was stolen. the average surfer does not differentiate. tubes are a component of the darwin theory of the strong surviving. the big porn producers are backing the big tubes & killing the weaker players. it should be no surprise that playboy helps the tubes. in time, those making vanilla porn that is no different than the big boys have no chance. besides, there is far too much porn that does not stand out in any way. consolidation was inevitable in porn, tubes or no tubes. The key to success is producing innovative content & creating standout publicity to build a brand name. content theft can dilute your success but cannot kill it unless you have nothing new to offer the world. so i agree with shap that whining is pointless. Tubes are here to stay. they are the earliest incarnation of the future of porn distribution, which resembles the broadcast model - you give away the content & monetize the traffic with ads & affiliates. The web is still young, but in a generation the power to create an audience will dwarf the highest TV ratings. so think about how you position your content to succeed in the glut of free content. but who am i but a dumb porn consumer? LOL