Internext at the Palms 2010 - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Atticus · 01-20-2010, 11:42 PM

Just book Hooters (the old san remo). Rooms are cheap, happy hour special on wings and ice cold beer, motel six is next door for the super cheap asses, MGM Grand is across the street for some parties at Tabu and Studio 54, and the strip is within walking distance.

Never stayed there but the rooms have to be better than the Gold Coast. And if the Hooters rooms dont do it for ya the MGM grand bungalow and terrace suites are across the street as well. Just saying.

boneprone · 01-21-2010, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

FREMONT STREET!!! The Golden Nugget.

It's a very nice hotel. And it's on Fremont St! The original Vegas strip. Walk up and down the street from casino to casino if you like with your drink in your hand. Bands playing on the street.

It is so much more fun than the "new" strip and blows The Palms away for having a good time. It's not overpriced and the guys who like to gamble can do it at some of the casinos that helped start everything. I'm not a poker player, but there are a couple of the old school casinos right there on Fremont that are THE place to play poker as well.

It's time we stopped acting like tourists from Japan and started having Internext at a fun, affordable, and very cool place in Vegas. Fremont Street.

P.S. Glitter Gulch strip club is right there as well You just walk across the "street" (I say "street" because Fremont is closed to automobiles, it's a covered walkway now...very cool)

I like the Golden Nugget idea. The old LasVegas gives the whole thing a vintage vegas feel. That would be cool..

Tasty1 · 01-21-2010, 02:22 AM

Our flight from Internext went not so well. After they booked us to another flight to Amsterdam cause the one we were going had 4 hours delay, we were first flying to Washington. On the way a nervous sounding stewardess was saying that we were going to the nearest airport, Denver. There were problems with one engine and they had to drop kerosine to lighten the plane and land as soon as possible. After 40 minutes we landed at Denver. For the first time in years people start applauding when the plane landed safe. A new plane took us then to Washington where we had to wait 20 hours for the next flight. United dropped us in a fine resort, so they took care of next flights and a sleeping place.

My GF had another seat than i had. I was sitting at the emergency exit, see at he end of the plane. That was cuase they booked us to another plane with no place for 2 sitting next to eachother. We changed seats for the flight Denver - washington so she felt more comfortable.

I think this was a bad week for flying. People that had flights to AEE and Internext had serious delays, 40+ hours. Maybe next time in Amsterdam, more safe for us

JFK · 01-21-2010, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

I thank everyone for their continuing feedback on Internext.

If you prefer to provide me your thoughts non-publicly, please feel free by emailing me or sending me an ICQ.

Chris, you asked for public feedback, lets just keep it all up here

Johnny G · 01-21-2010, 07:15 AM

There's been a lot of valid comments so far and many of them I agree with fully. This year I did all of my networking at the center bar and at the parties and I did not plan it that way. There just seemed to be many people receptive to talking shop. The only vendor in Rain that interested me at this time was Red Light Center. I'm not sure Rain is the best place for vendor booths.

I stayed at The Rio this year because I got a good deal there at $40 per night and because in the past I have always wandered over there for a meal or a show. I would like to suggest that hotel as a possible future venue for Internext. It has a convention center, a selection of bars and restaurants, reasonable rates, nice ambiance, a casino, entertainment, a beach though it's cold in January, and it is walking distance to the Gold Coast and close enough to The Palms if some group had an event there.

Regardless of the venue I think there should be:
More girls (models or talent)
Reasonably priced drinks (I paid $5 for seltzer water at Rain)
Continued seminars
More parties that are geared for networking. Maybe have parties with vendor themes in mind such as a party with all billing sponsors and a party with all affiliate program sponsors.

tony286 · 01-21-2010, 07:57 AM

Why do people keep saying have more girls there? They dont have strip clubs where you live? lol

kristin · 01-21-2010, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

Why do people keep saying have more girls there? They dont have strip clubs where you live? lol

Yes, I agree. Not to be harsh towards the girls, but I've never gotten any biz done with them directly.

Connor · 01-21-2010, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneprone

The decline at internext over the year is part the fault of internext itself. But the major fact of the matter is a lot of the industry is washing out.

This is a really good point. People often point out the Internext of five years ago... but the difference between that show and the shows we all get now is less to do with anything AVN is doing and more to do with the companies and individuals who attend. Budgets are way down, plain and simple. Companies are still doing things, they're just doing less.

Take the show floor. Internext used to have a show floor that was as big as AEE's show floor is now. But webmasters started saying things like this: "Why should I buy a booth when I can just show up and work the floor for free?" Then their friends jumped in: "Yeah, yeah man, same here." And pretty soon, AVN was forced to come up with a new concept... and we got the night club format at the Palms. We saw a comment in this thread alone about not buying a badge, just showing up to the hotel to work deals. These kinds of things force AVN to make changes to react... but the industry should understand that when they do, it's just in reaction to all of us and how we're behaving.

Something everyone should keep in mind though is this: running a trade show like Internext isn't cheap. AVN has to come to an agreement with the hotel, and they're on the hook for things like the number of hotel rooms (at the Palms) that MUST be bought, the amount of food bought, etc. And hotels will nickel and dime you to virtual death any chance they get with things like 23% service fees on already inflated food prices for catering, $2000 to rent a projector for a day that costs $1000 to buy at Fry's, $40 for every banner that needs to be hung somewhere (time a hundred), etc, etc. AVN would have to pay all this stuff or not have a show there. So I can tell you this... Chris won't say this, but when you put a lot of money on the line to throw a show, you spend time and resources making it happen and promote it to the industry, then people show up and enjoy your work without even buying a badge... well that's frustrating beyond belief.

Also, the companies that DO show up and sponsor the show, throw parties for us, private or otherwise, etc., these people make the show possible. These companies deserve our appreciation at the very least, and our consideration for business. They're investing into the industry and making sure we have a culture outside of message boards, a chance to all meet up and network face to face.

I understand budgets aren't unlimited these days... so it comes down to this, IMO. The more support the industry can give a show, the better the organizers can make it. There's still plenty of love for Internext, and it's likely that companies will feel a little better in 2010 than they did in 2009, so I think given that AVN will put on the best show possible, as always.

tony286 · 01-21-2010, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

This is a really good point. People often point out the Internext of five years ago... but the difference between that show and the shows we all get now is less to do with anything AVN is doing and more to do with the companies and individuals who attend. Budgets are way down, plain and simple. Companies are still doing things, they're just doing less.

Take the show floor. Internext used to have a show floor that was as big as AEE's show floor is now. But webmasters started saying things like this: "Why should I buy a booth when I can just show up and work the floor for free?" Then their friends jumped in: "Yeah, yeah man, same here." And pretty soon, AVN was forced to come up with a new concept... and we got the night club format at the Palms. We saw a comment in this thread alone about not buying a badge, just showing up to the hotel to work deals. These kinds of things force AVN to make changes to react... but the industry should understand that when they do, it's just in reaction to all of us and how we're behaving.

Something everyone should keep in mind though is this: running a trade show like Internext isn't cheap. AVN has to come to an agreement with the hotel, and they're on the hook for things like the number of hotel rooms (at the Palms) that MUST be bought, the amount of food bought, etc. And hotels will nickel and dime you to virtual death any chance they get with things like 23% service fees on already inflated food prices for catering, $2000 to rent a projector for a day that costs $1000 to buy at Fry's, $40 for every banner that needs to be hung somewhere (time a hundred), etc, etc. AVN would have to pay all this stuff or not have a show there. So I can tell you this... Chris won't say this, but when you put a lot of money on the line to throw a show, you spend time and resources making it happen and promote it to the industry, then people show up and enjoy your work without even buying a badge... well that's frustrating beyond belief.

Also, the companies that DO show up and sponsor the show, throw parties for us, private or otherwise, etc., these people make the show possible. These companies deserve our appreciation at the very least, and our consideration for business. They're investing into the industry and making sure we have a culture outside of message boards, a chance to all meet up and network face to face.

I understand budgets aren't unlimited these days... so it comes down to this, IMO. The more support the industry can give a show, the better the organizers can make it. There's still plenty of love for Internext, and it's likely that companies will feel a little better in 2010 than they did in 2009, so I think given that AVN will put on the best show possible, as always.

if the show was done when not vegas is busy ie:the ces show. They could probably get much better deals on everything especially in these hard times.Also maybe in the internet age the show model is dying?

LAJ · 01-21-2010, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

if the show was done when not vegas is busy ie:the ces show. They could probably get much better deals on everything especially in these hard times.Also maybe in the internet age the show model is dying?

The show model is not dying. Getting smaller perhaps, but it's still a very relevant way of doing business. What's happening is the people who were going to shows primarily to party are just not going anymore in the droves that they used to, and many of the newcomers who are now going to adult shows are startups who are very hungry and motivated.

Connor · 01-21-2010, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

if the show was done when not vegas is busy ie:the ces show. They could probably get much better deals on everything especially in these hard times.Also maybe in the internet age the show model is dying?

The show model will die only if we as an industry LET it die... and I don't think that's happening. If it did happen, it would really be a shame. All of the best relationships that I've formed in this industry have come as a result of face-to-face environments. The reason why we have a presence at almost all of the shows is because getting together with people in person and talking business really does work.

Barefootsies · 01-21-2010, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAJ

the people who were going to shows primarily to party are just not going anymore in the droves that they used to, and many of the newcomers who are now going to adult shows are startups who are very hungry and motivated.

The shows need to better cater to that crowd, and not so much BROgrams then.

Seminars with these endless talking heads about nonsense, or repeating the same horse shit simply will not cut it. I do not want to hear about someone's product or sales pitch on a forum unless it is truly revolutionary.

A seminar would better be spent with fewer panelists, so you could get more meat on the bone of a subject, without sales pitch bullshit. Here is an example for you.... mobile. At a seminar on mobile, I want to hear about how to CONVERT mobile, how to filter your traffic for mobile, how to SELL mobile. Not some company simply talking about how they are mobile leader, and how they are having BROgrasmic sales.

Another good top would be distribution... how many content producers are hurting? Many. Not all are webmaster/content producers like myself. I am sure that some of them would like to know other places, and how, to sell their material to make some money and stay in business. Whether it is a clip store, or licensing, or companies who are doing DVD or other forms of distribution for them to make some money on their libraries. THAT would be a seminar of some use.

Or a seminar talking about quality traffic and sources, not just a sales pitch from some traffic broker. Things like that. The point being, that the middle class of adult is vanishing. The shows need to cater to the start ups, and mom and pops. That is the growth market.

BROgrams typically are NOT going to seminars at most shows. They already know most players and will close deals over BRO drinks. Seminars are typically for newer people, or for new concepts. Which is attended, typically, by new people. Frankly, this is one of many examples where I think some of the shows have lost their way.

Not all shows are the same. I have said this many times about the San Fran/YNOT show compared to many of these others. It was a nice change to see FULL seminars. It was nice to actually talk some real business, and meet people who were serious about knowledge and getting things done. Plus you meet many who you may not have noticed, or met, at other shows. Especially niche providers.

That said, I personally do not like San Fran. However, I will say Connor and LAJ put on a good show and if you have not checked it out, it's worth it. Plus you do not get ass raped like at some of the other shows.

Not all shows are the same, and they are what you make of them. However, some are put together better to support that business aspect, as well as a few social events for everyone. Not just private parties. Which seems to be coming more common.

tony286 · 01-21-2010, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAJ

The show model is not dying. Getting smaller perhaps, but it's still a very relevant way of doing business. What's happening is the people who were going to shows primarily to party are just not going anymore in the droves that they used to, and many of the newcomers who are now going to adult shows are startups who are very hungry and motivated.

Then maybe its the big over the top show is dead and the small more personal ones are the key. The only problem with them is for the people in the big show business.There isnt much money in having a smaller, intimate show that is low cost and effective.

Barefootsies · 01-21-2010, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

Then maybe its the big over the top show is dead and the small more personal ones are the key. The only problem with them is for the people in the big show business.There isnt much money in having a smaller, intimate show that is low cost and effective.

Correct.

While the most valuable. Not the most profitable.

Evil Chris · 01-21-2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFK

Chris, you asked for public feedback, lets just keep it all up here

I'm asking for private feedback too. "removed upon request"

Connor · 01-21-2010, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

The shows need to better cater to that crowd, and not so much BROgrams then.

As much as I agree that shows should not discount newbies... which happens too often... you can't discount to "BROgrams" either. First, the good ones gives the newbies content, and something to promote that stands a good chance of converting. Second, they are the primary sponsors of these shows, and that makes the shows possible in the first place. Ideally, you get a nice mix, and everyone finds something of value at the show for their particular goals.

Barefootsies · 01-21-2010, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

As much as I agree that shows should not discount newbies... which happens too often... you can't discount to "BROgrams" either.

True dat.

However, I can remember many show seminars that have been absolutely worthless and more than deserved the 12-36 people in the audience. They were little more than 6-8 people on a panel giving you a sales pitch and telling you about how BROgasmic they were.

I guess if you want to throw shows like that, where the only real use is in the out of seminar networking time, then it is common sense why most do not want to buy a badge. Nor support the show and opt instead to going out side to have their BRO drinks and do business.

The point is, if you want people to pay $300.00 for a badge. Then you need to make it of some use to them. If the seminars are going to be talking heads, and sales pitches, then no one will want to go and pay for it. So do not blame the attendees for not wanting to waste their money.

If the badge can't get them some useful seminars, then maybe a free meal, a discount on their hotel room, some nice parties, or free BRO drinks. You need to actually have some kind of ROI on the badge investment. I have yet to see any provided by the show sponsor people in the thread.

The point is... you have to prove some actual VALUE for the cost of a badge. Just giving people a time and place to show up at a hotel and shake some hands for a few days is not a real VALUE, nor cost effective, to anyone. Big or small.

Iron Fist · 01-21-2010, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

The $5diet cokes and $10 bloody mary's should go

WTF? Seriously? I think pop/water should be free and drinks $2... you paid $300 to get in the bloody door... makes me think the same guys who do the pricing for movie theater concessions run the show... brutal.

Would never attend a show if the drink prices were that high... ever. I'd attend just to check out seminars and maybe network a little for some traffic trades but that would be pretty much it for me from a affiliate standpoint... the show wouldn't really offer me anything else of value.

MichaelP · 01-21-2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

This is a really good point. People often point out the Internext of five years ago... but the difference between that show and the shows we all get now is less to do with anything AVN is doing and more to do with the companies and individuals who attend. Budgets are way down, plain and simple. Companies are still doing things, they're just doing less.

Take the show floor. Internext used to have a show floor that was as big as AEE's show floor is now. But webmasters started saying things like this: "Why should I buy a booth when I can just show up and work the floor for free?" Then their friends jumped in: "Yeah, yeah man, same here." And pretty soon, AVN was forced to come up with a new concept... and we got the night club format at the Palms. We saw a comment in this thread alone about not buying a badge, just showing up to the hotel to work deals. These kinds of things force AVN to make changes to react... but the industry should understand that when they do, it's just in reaction to all of us and how we're behaving.

Something everyone should keep in mind though is this: running a trade show like Internext isn't cheap. AVN has to come to an agreement with the hotel, and they're on the hook for things like the number of hotel rooms (at the Palms) that MUST be bought, the amount of food bought, etc. And hotels will nickel and dime you to virtual death any chance they get with things like 23% service fees on already inflated food prices for catering, $2000 to rent a projector for a day that costs $1000 to buy at Fry's, $40 for every banner that needs to be hung somewhere (time a hundred), etc, etc. AVN would have to pay all this stuff or not have a show there. So I can tell you this... Chris won't say this, but when you put a lot of money on the line to throw a show, you spend time and resources making it happen and promote it to the industry, then people show up and enjoy your work without even buying a badge... well that's frustrating beyond belief.

Also, the companies that DO show up and sponsor the show, throw parties for us, private or otherwise, etc., these people make the show possible. These companies deserve our appreciation at the very least, and our consideration for business. They're investing into the industry and making sure we have a culture outside of message boards, a chance to all meet up and network face to face.

I understand budgets aren't unlimited these days... so it comes down to this, IMO. The more support the industry can give a show, the better the organizers can make it. There's still plenty of love for Internext, and it's likely that companies will feel a little better in 2010 than they did in 2009, so I think given that AVN will put on the best show possible, as always.

Very good points

""Chris won't say this, but when you put a lot of money on the line to throw a show, you spend time and resources making it happen and promote it to the industry, then people show up and enjoy your work without even buying a badge... well that's frustrating beyond belief.""

Very True

tony286 · 01-21-2010, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

As much as I agree that shows should not discount newbies... which happens too often... you can't discount to "BROgrams" either. First, the good ones gives the newbies content, and something to promote that stands a good chance of converting. Second, they are the primary sponsors of these shows, and that makes the shows possible in the first place. Ideally, you get a nice mix, and everyone finds something of value at the show for their particular goals.

if the model only works with huge sponsors and you still have to pay to get in. Then the model is either broke or greed plays a role. The mainstream video show to walk the show floor is free, at comdex in atl the show floor was free. That's the point of sponsors.They "sponsor" the show. Now you want to go to the classes its very expensive.
I have a idea that would be productive for the people that would go but wouldnt make a dime it would be a wash actually.

fuzebox · 01-21-2010, 10:15 AM

Couple of things.

I think it's important not to confuse cheapness with value. People don't book rooms at the Gold Coast because they're poor, they do it because there is little extra value in being in the more expensive venue across the street. I don't think anyone would mind a more expensive hotel (Westin Diplomat, Mission Palms, for example) if they were getting their moneys worth. You can say it's not fair to compare to other better shows all you want, but that's what the attendees are doing.

By the same token, guilt shouldn't be your only way of selling those $300 badges. If they were worth $300, everyone would buy one. Show threads always complain about value. I mean really, take a sheet of paper and write down what someone with a badge receives compared to someone without a badge... it's pretty funny.

MichaelP · 01-21-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

if the model only works with huge sponsors and you still have to pay to get in. Then the model is either broke or greed plays a role. The mainstream video show to walk the show floor is free, at comdex in atl the show floor was free. That's the point of sponsors.They "sponsor" the show. Now you want to go to the classes its very expensive.
I have a idea that would be productive for the people that would go but wouldnt make a dime it would be a wash actually.

Ok you bring a good point, but these are probably consumers (b2c) shows. and please don't forget the kind of industry we work in... IF the shows were free, then you'd have 1000 Johny Dicks on the floor but you wouldn't do any business... We have B2B shows... The idea of having a price tag and a badge to get in filters the Joe Shmoes who are coming for the "tits& Asses" factor only. Ok I agree that 300$ for the badge is "over filtering", but you really need to have a minimal price in order to filter who gets in and who is serious about doing biz in this industry

Barefootsies · 01-21-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzebox

take a sheet of paper and write down what someone with a badge receives compared to someone without a badge... it's pretty funny.

Connor · 01-21-2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

if the model only works with huge sponsors and you still have to pay to get in. Then the model is either broke or greed plays a role. The mainstream video show to walk the show floor is free, at comdex in atl the show floor was free. That's the point of sponsors.They "sponsor" the show. Now you want to go to the classes its very expensive.
I have a idea that would be productive for the people that would go but wouldnt make a dime it would be a wash actually.

Sponsors put a lot of money into shows like Internext, but it's unreasonable to expect them to cover the entire bill for a large show like that, especially in a business climate where spending is conservative. I don't think many people appreciate just how expensive these hotels really are, and the risk they force organizers to take on. AVN stands to LOSE money if the show goes badly... and not just a little... there are all kinds of possible risks that keep show organizers up at night. So given they're putting on the show at huge risk, and they're spending resources, paying for marketing so as many people as possible show up, devoting staff, etc., shouldn't they get SOMETHING for the effort? Take a look at what shows like Web 2.0 Expo charge for full attendance for multiple days... and then look at that obscene list of sponsors with names like Microsoft. Prices are so good in this industry for shows it's not even funny... and we have the more interesting talent at our shows. ;)

ShellyCrash · 01-21-2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneprone

I like the Golden Nugget idea. The old LasVegas gives the whole thing a vintage vegas feel. That would be cool..

I agree

Freemont street is what you make it. I'm not crazy about the light show but where else do you have so much within stumbling distance? There's something to be said for "slummin it" it Vegas, when you go to the older casinos you don't just get more bang for your buck but you also get unparalled service. When you drop $500 on the strip no one bats and eye, but you drop $500 in old town it's like everyone knows your name. And Glitter Gultch might not have the hottest girls, but I guarantee they're more fun than the girls at the Rhino.

Also, seriously, the Golden Nugget is alot nicer than some of you think. When I have to go into Vegas for family business that's where I stay and over the last 6 years it has been constantly improving. Everytime I'm in it there's something new, something different, you'd be surprised how classy they made the joint.

Connor · 01-21-2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelP

Ok you bring a good point, but these are probably consumers (b2c) shows. and please don't forget the kind of industry we work in... IF the shows were free, then you'd have 1000 Johny Dicks on the floor but you wouldn't do any business... We have B2B shows... The idea of having a price tag and a badge to get in filters the Joe Shmoes who are coming for the "tits& Asses" factor only. Ok I agree that 300$ for the badge is "over filtering", but you really need to have a minimal price in order to filter who gets in and who is serious about doing biz in this industry

Exactly! You really can't compare our industry to consumer shows where the whole goal is to just get as many people as possible in the door to sell them stuff. With a B2B show, you want people who take their attendance at least somewhat seriously.

Tasty1 · 01-21-2010, 10:42 AM

People buy a badge for; seminars, floorparties, playboy club parties, open bar parties, fun, networking, talk about experiences.

- seminars, to early to attend
- floorparties, the best were in Goldcoast and Sapphire
- playboy club parties - none
- open bar parties, few
- fun
- networking, circle bar
- talk about experiences, circle bar
- floorshow, much billing

So next year in hooters?
- everyone drops 100 dollar for an own bar and beer
- sponsors/ affiliates can rent a booth/chair in the bar, we spend that on alcohol
- seminars are 25 dollars, sponsors can buy a seat in the panel
- from 11 - 18:00 the bar is also the showfloor
- from 19:00 - 21:00 walk in buffet
- sponsors can sponsor more booze, or dinners and better club parties
- after 19:00 there is a cheap bar, beer 1 dollar, domestic drinks 2 dollar
- 20 dollar lapdance not included, can be sponsored

All we need is a cheap bar, a seminar room and affiliates organise it. We can easily promote it by using our newsletters, msn, forums and sites

we make banners, every sponsor / attendee that signs up by your aff id will get 10 dollar off from the hotel price.

We send newsletters to all sponsors/attendees with affiliate id's in it. That money will be spend on drinks.

Let's go dutch.

Maybe it is possible for affiliates to set up floorparties. Why wait till a big sponsors set something up.

Tasty1 · 01-21-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShellyCrash

I agree

Freemont street is what you make it. I'm not crazy about the light show but where else do you have so much within stumbling distance? There's something to be said for "slummin it" it Vegas, when you go to the older casinos you don't just get more bang for your buck but you also get unparalled service. When you drop $500 on the strip no one bats and eye, but you drop $500 in old town it's like everyone knows your name. And Glitter Gultch might not have the hottest girls, but I guarantee they're more fun than the girls at the Rhino.

Also, seriously, the Golden Nugget is alot nicer than some of you think. When I have to go into Vegas for family business that's where I stay and over the last 6 years it has been constantly improving. Everytime I'm in it there's something new, something different, you'd be surprised how classy they made the joint.

Golden Nugget is a good hotel. Better dan Harrah's and even the normal rooms in the Palms. But the atmospehere at the strip is more bling bling. Which is nice, different crowd and more show off. If you don't try, we will never know it. The Pallms isn't a good location either, to far away from the strip.

Connor · 01-21-2010, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzebox

By the same token, guilt shouldn't be your only way of selling those $300 badges. If they were worth $300, everyone would buy one. Show threads always complain about value. I mean really, take a sheet of paper and write down what someone with a badge receives compared to someone without a badge... it's pretty funny.

Let's be honest, that's just an excuse for freeloaders to feel better about what they're doing. Porn is worth something too... it costs to produce it, the girls have to get paid at the very least, there's equipment to buy, there's demand for the product, etc., yet people still take what they can get for free more often than pay for it. It's why so many people here are complaining about the $300 badge now for a three day event -- that wouldn't have happened in 2003, for example, when porn sales were higher. Either enough people see the big picture, or they can instead choose to think of themselves as clever freeloaders and watch as all the show organizers move on to other things.

If the event isn't worth the badge price then just don't show up. Simple. If you're showing up, then you see value. If you see value, then don't be cheap... buy a badge. Personally I note when people don't have a badge but show up anyway... it doesn't impress me, it makes me think that person is broke. Most shows offer discounted badges for people who buy early too... I don't recall, but I bet AVN did with Internext.

Barefootsies · 01-21-2010, 11:19 AM

Come on man. People, and companies, do not put on these conferences out of the good of their heart and for the warm fuzzy feeling of their industry brotherin. They do it for profit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

So given they're putting on the show at huge risk, and they're spending resources, paying for marketing so as many people as possible show up, devoting staff, etc., shouldn't they get SOMETHING for the effort?

Right.

When the the attendance goes down, the value of a show, and ROI for the expense go down the profit margin those throwing the show should also go down. Funny the shows even 12-18 months ago provided more parties, and better all around experience for the money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

Let's be honest, that's just an excuse for freeloaders to feel better about what they're doing.

If the event isn't worth the badge price then just don't show up. Simple. If you're showing up, then you see value. If you see value, then don't be cheap... buy a badge.

Yes, let's. Porn production is not the same as an adult industry conference.

As fuzebox said, take a piece of paper. Fold it in half. Write out what the badge, and non-badge, benefits are. In 2009/2010 there is little value in the badge. Which is why few buy them, and many more are not even staying at the conference hotel.

So Called Benefits:

Seminars that suck or are repeats of last show.
Show floors that are nothing but processors or billing booths.
No/few parties. Most are invite only now.
Pussycash neck band.
Looking BROgasmic with your badge around your neck

I respect you man, and think you do a good job on your show and making it stand out from the crowd. However, some of these arguments do not hold water for attendees.

boneprone · 01-21-2010, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristin

Yes, I agree. Not to be harsh towards the girls, but I've never gotten any biz done with them directly.

I have..

Atticus · 01-21-2010, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShellyCrash

And Glitter Gultch might not have the hottest girls, but I guarantee they're more fun than the girls at the Rhino.

Good One.

The stench of desperation is always a great turn on and tons of fun.

It's basic math, there is a reason these girls are working at Glitter Gulch and not at Rhino, Sapphires, Club Paradise, Penthouse etc etc. And it isnt the convenient location.

Holly Lez! · 01-21-2010, 11:36 AM

I did really good business. I have a few suggestions, there should have been a few parties or something for people to do at night. I know it is hard to do this without sponsors (trust me working at Cybersocket I know) but you could have arrange an outing with a no host bar in that case we did for the gays and it was packed! Also get some new faces on the panels. And yes the Gold Coast is a nice alternative, I stayed there and loved the quiet of it!

Barefootsies · 01-21-2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly Lez!

Also get some new faces on the panels.

Thank you.

Connor · 01-21-2010, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

As fuzebox said, take a piece of paper. Fold it in half. Write out what the badge, and non-badge, benefits are. In 2009/2010 there is little value in the badge. Which is why few buy them, and many more are not even staying at the conference hotel.

Everything you write down as a benefit you can get from NOT buying a badge is a benefit that was delivered by the people running the show. It's something that you SHOULD be paying for, so it doesn't work to take that off the list of benefits of buying a badge.

Shows COULD just be badge police... they could be really aggressive about making sure everyone has a badge, and just have the hotel kick everyone out who doesn't have one. Then make sure that every sponsored party is in the hotel. Then, you'd list those parties and networking and everything else on the "badge benefits" list. But show organizers don't like to make things a pain for the people who do contribute, and they like to keep things loose. But people who freeload make it hard for organizers to do that.

Redmanthatcould · 01-21-2010, 11:59 AM

I'd like to see the show move to a smaller hotel, without a casino, that's still upscale. That way you can rent out the entire place, and do a lot more business. The Palms' "casino" is a joke anyways, and anyone that wants to gamble can just play 2 less hands of BJ for a cab to a big casino. Something like the Artisan hotel would be perfect - it reminds me of a classier Roosevelt.

Try to put more value into the badge-required events...hire some big mainstream SEO guys to give keynotes or workshops, and have actual events during the day instead of just the show floor. As it stands now, there's really no point in buying a badge, or even attending the show for all the days; you could get all your business done in one day at the circle bar, with no badge or room fee.

Robbie · 01-21-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

Shows COULD just be badge police... they could be really aggressive about making sure everyone has a badge, and just have the hotel kick everyone out who doesn't have one.

That would be impossible. lol

The Palms is going to throw the thousands of people who are staying at the hotel or who are there gambling out of the place for the 100 or so that have badges?

I don't think that would ever happen.

You could have fit everyone that was there for Internext in one small room. As D$ did so well for the Players Ball. How the heck could a show that is one of the smallest things coming to Vegas these days, possibly kick paying customers out of a big casino?

Barefootsies · 01-21-2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

It's something that you SHOULD be paying for

I've always bought a badge at any show I have ever went to.

However, I agree with the increasing number of people who do NOT buy a badge, and their rationale behind it. I have seen a big change in the shows, and what is offered for my money over the years.

So they have a valid point.

fuzebox · 01-21-2010, 12:34 PM

Organizing a show is a business, and the show is a product. If it isn't worth the price tag, people are not going to buy. If the area outside the show (circle bar, casino) are more interesting than the area inside the show (overpriced drinks, billing companies of the month), why should people 1) bother going inside or 2) pay for that privilege? Because they don't want to "look broke"?

Barefootsies · 01-21-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzebox

Organizing a show is a business, and the show is a product. If it isn't worth the price tag, people are not going to buy. If the area outside the show (circle bar, casino) are more interesting than the area inside the show (overpriced drinks, billing companies of the month), why should people 1) bother going inside or 2) pay for that privilege?

Because they don't want to "look broke"?

Connor · 01-21-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

That would be impossible. lol

The Palms is going to throw the thousands of people who are staying at the hotel or who are there gambling out of the place for the 100 or so that have badges?

I don't think that would ever happen.

You could have fit everyone that was there for Internext in one small room. As D$ did so well for the Players Ball. How the heck could a show that is one of the smallest things coming to Vegas these days, possibly kick paying customers out of a big casino?

The way you do it is... you simply find a smaller hotel, and you buy out the entire venue. For example, the hotel in Phoenix has just over 100 rooms, I believe. A casino is a problem, yes, but that's only a problem for the January show. Internext did this with the Summer show once or twice, so people who didn't buy badges were at a major disadvantage. The downside is, it's a pain for the rest of us... cause if you forget your badge, you get hassled trying to get back IN to the hotel, etc.

Connor · 01-21-2010, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzebox

Organizing a show is a business, and the show is a product. If it isn't worth the price tag, people are not going to buy. If the area outside the show (circle bar, casino) are more interesting than the area inside the show (overpriced drinks, billing companies of the month), why should people 1) bother going inside or 2) pay for that privilege? Because they don't want to "look broke"?

You know... the entire reason that the area "outside" the show is "interesting" is because of the money and effort and time and energy that the show organizers put into getting a lot of people from the industry in the same place at the same time. Try going to the Palms circle bar right now and see how much business you get done. lol

J-SiN · 01-21-2010, 12:54 PM

This is the perfect time to be having this debate because the show situation is not improving. It could even be argued that industry B2B shows are in a tailspin which wont recover until a complete reinvention of the show format is embraced.

Connor, I respect the effort you and Jay put behind hosting Cybernet. It is a show I truly enjoy. However much like brand advertising it is all about the perception of value, with critical mass being a big component of any event's perceived value. I'm not sure I agree with your summation that attending a show is a 'take it or leave it' proposition though. Modern day sales and marketing is not about forcing your will on as many 'marks' as possible; we both know you survive today by intimately knowing what your target audience wants and satisfying that need.

If anyone puts on a show, and doesn't understand or listen to the wants of the community, it is not the fault of anyone but that show owner if the community's commercial participation (or lack there of) does not align with the show's ability to break even (or make a buck). Besides no one wants to support a business which doesnt truly represent or support their own agenda or ideals.

PixelVixens · 01-21-2010, 12:56 PM

I hope I get to go next year!

PantiesDropped · 01-21-2010, 03:34 PM

Chris it was a pleasure meeting you at the Playboy event during Internext.

I think AVN is doing what it can to continue putting together one of the best known tradeshows in adult, however, it?s time the tradeshow model for adult B2B changes. Over all Vegas for me was very productive but I can?t say the cost of a $300 badge was worth the expense. Personally, I had a badge but I can see how some people opted for not buying one.

Seminars: It?s Vegas, everyone is out late enjoying endless entertainment. Move seminar to a later time, around noon or so. Instead of having sponsors as panelist, have people with something real and informative to say not just some sales pitch. Don?t let the big sponsor rule the show, it?s AVN-Intenext not ?so-and-so's show? Lastly, asking people for seminar/panel ideas rather than reusing the same topics over and over and over again would be ideal.

Networking: During Internext about 90% of my time was spent at the circle bar. Sadly it wasn?t just me or a few others hanging out there. It seems everyone decided to go out there due to the lack of networking events. The problem is not the cost of the badge but what the badge provides. We need new fresh networking events. In addition I would really like to see an outdoor networking event. Yes it?s winter and it?s a bit cold, however, it?s Vegas and we?re all stuck indoors with a ton smoke, artificial lighting and loud ass music. Nothing an outdoor heater can?t fix.

Location: Like everyone else, change location! Vegas has such a great variety of big and small hotels; Why the Palms? For the amount of people attending Internext, we need a smaller hotel OR a hotel well suited for conferences. This year there had to be about 400 -500 people attending Internext. The only way to find people at the Palms was by going to the circle bar. Changing venues would be a very smart move for AVN-Internext in so many levels; it allows attendees to network efficiently and most likely be cost effective for AVN.

People, including myself, go to these tradeshows to educate themselves, find new sources of information, network and find new business opportunities. However, the show itself was not what it was put out to be even though it had the attendance.

J-SiN · 01-21-2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeRoy

Limit the # of billing companies.

or at the least limit them in the speed networking and seminars.

I know it's wishfull thinking.

Thank you!

...and perhaps thin out this over-saturated representation by charging billers more to participate in these types of events. Its just my assumption but it would seem billing companies signing a new company as a result of these specific actions would result in more value for them then the typical adult company participating for more business development reasons than just sales.

fuzebox · 01-21-2010, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

Try going to the Palms circle bar right now and see how much business you get done. lol

I am headed there right now coincidently

Barefootsies · 01-21-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzebox

I am headed there right now coincidently

JFK · 01-21-2010, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

I'm asking for private feedback too. "removed upon request"

OK , lets Cyber

JFK · 01-21-2010, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airholland

People buy a badge for; seminars, floorparties, playboy club parties, open bar parties, fun, networking, talk about experiences.

- seminars, to early to attend
- floorparties, the best were in Goldcoast and Sapphire
- playboy club parties - none
- open bar parties, few
- fun
- networking, circle bar
- talk about experiences, circle bar
- floorshow, much billing

So next year in hooters?
- everyone drops 100 dollar for an own bar and beer
- sponsors/ affiliates can rent a booth/chair in the bar, we spend that on alcohol
- seminars are 25 dollars, sponsors can buy a seat in the panel
- from 11 - 18:00 the bar is also the showfloor
- from 19:00 - 21:00 walk in buffet
- sponsors can sponsor more booze, or dinners and better club parties
- after 19:00 there is a cheap bar, beer 1 dollar, domestic drinks 2 dollar
- 20 dollar lapdance not included, can be sponsored

All we need is a cheap bar, a seminar room and affiliates organise it. We can easily promote it by using our newsletters, msn, forums and sites

we make banners, every sponsor / attendee that signs up by your aff id will get 10 dollar off from the hotel price.

We send newsletters to all sponsors/attendees with affiliate id's in it. That money will be spend on drinks.

Let's go dutch.

Maybe it is possible for affiliates to set up floorparties. Why wait till a big sponsors set something up.

Good points

01-21-2010, 07:15 AM	#55
Johnny G Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 516	There's been a lot of valid comments so far and many of them I agree with fully. This year I did all of my networking at the center bar and at the parties and I did not plan it that way. There just seemed to be many people receptive to talking shop. The only vendor in Rain that interested me at this time was Red Light Center. I'm not sure Rain is the best place for vendor booths. I stayed at The Rio this year because I got a good deal there at $40 per night and because in the past I have always wandered over there for a meal or a show. I would like to suggest that hotel as a possible future venue for Internext. It has a convention center, a selection of bars and restaurants, reasonable rates, nice ambiance, a casino, entertainment, a beach though it's cold in January, and it is walking distance to the Gold Coast and close enough to The Palms if some group had an event there. Regardless of the venue I think there should be: More girls (models or talent) Reasonably priced drinks (I paid $5 for seltzer water at Rain) Continued seminars More parties that are geared for networking. Maybe have parties with vendor themes in mind such as a party with all billing sponsors and a party with all affiliate program sponsors. __________________ Imagine porn stars doing electrical work https://MrElectrician.TV

01-21-2010, 11:36 AM	#83
Holly Lez! She's back Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,480	I did really good business. I have a few suggestions, there should have been a few parties or something for people to do at night. I know it is hard to do this without sponsors (trust me working at Cybersocket I know) but you could have arrange an outing with a no host bar in that case we did for the gays and it was packed! Also get some new faces on the panels. And yes the Gold Coast is a nice alternative, I stayed there and loved the quiet of it! __________________ [email protected] Skype: hollyruprecht

01-21-2010, 12:54 PM	#93
J-SiN Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 41	This is the perfect time to be having this debate because the show situation is not improving. It could even be argued that industry B2B shows are in a tailspin which wont recover until a complete reinvention of the show format is embraced. Connor, I respect the effort you and Jay put behind hosting Cybernet. It is a show I truly enjoy. However much like brand advertising it is all about the perception of value, with critical mass being a big component of any event's perceived value. I'm not sure I agree with your summation that attending a show is a 'take it or leave it' proposition though. Modern day sales and marketing is not about forcing your will on as many 'marks' as possible; we both know you survive today by intimately knowing what your target audience wants and satisfying that need. If anyone puts on a show, and doesn't understand or listen to the wants of the community, it is not the fault of anyone but that show owner if the community's commercial participation (or lack there of) does not align with the show's ability to break even (or make a buck). Besides no one wants to support a business which doesnt truly represent or support their own agenda or ideals. __________________ Host of the SiN2.0 Adult Webmaster Podcast

01-21-2010, 12:56 PM	#94
PixelVixens Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 109	I hope I get to go next year! __________________ www.pixel-vixens.com Alt porn for geeks

01-21-2010, 03:34 PM	#95
PantiesDropped Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 321	Chris it was a pleasure meeting you at the Playboy event during Internext. I think AVN is doing what it can to continue putting together one of the best known tradeshows in adult, however, it?s time the tradeshow model for adult B2B changes. Over all Vegas for me was very productive but I can?t say the cost of a $300 badge was worth the expense. Personally, I had a badge but I can see how some people opted for not buying one. Seminars: It?s Vegas, everyone is out late enjoying endless entertainment. Move seminar to a later time, around noon or so. Instead of having sponsors as panelist, have people with something real and informative to say not just some sales pitch. Don?t let the big sponsor rule the show, it?s AVN-Intenext not ?so-and-so's show? Lastly, asking people for seminar/panel ideas rather than reusing the same topics over and over and over again would be ideal. Networking: During Internext about 90% of my time was spent at the circle bar. Sadly it wasn?t just me or a few others hanging out there. It seems everyone decided to go out there due to the lack of networking events. The problem is not the cost of the badge but what the badge provides. We need new fresh networking events. In addition I would really like to see an outdoor networking event. Yes it?s winter and it?s a bit cold, however, it?s Vegas and we?re all stuck indoors with a ton smoke, artificial lighting and loud ass music. Nothing an outdoor heater can?t fix. Location: Like everyone else, change location! Vegas has such a great variety of big and small hotels; Why the Palms? For the amount of people attending Internext, we need a smaller hotel OR a hotel well suited for conferences. This year there had to be about 400 -500 people attending Internext. The only way to find people at the Palms was by going to the circle bar. Changing venues would be a very smart move for AVN-Internext in so many levels; it allows attendees to network efficiently and most likely be cost effective for AVN. People, including myself, go to these tradeshows to educate themselves, find new sources of information, network and find new business opportunities. However, the show itself was not what it was put out to be even though it had the attendance. __________________ ICQ 40six38nine01two My Adult Who's Who Wanna stalk me? Find me on Twitter PLAYPEN.COM

01-20-2010, 11:42 PM	#51
Atticus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,051	Just book Hooters (the old san remo). Rooms are cheap, happy hour special on wings and ice cold beer, motel six is next door for the super cheap asses, MGM Grand is across the street for some parties at Tabu and Studio 54, and the strip is within walking distance. Never stayed there but the rooms have to be better than the Gold Coast. And if the Hooters rooms dont do it for ya the MGM grand bungalow and terrace suites are across the street as well. Just saying.

01-21-2010, 02:22 AM	#53
Tasty1 Judge Jury and Executioner Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: South-America Posts: 8,939	Our flight from Internext went not so well. After they booked us to another flight to Amsterdam cause the one we were going had 4 hours delay, we were first flying to Washington. On the way a nervous sounding stewardess was saying that we were going to the nearest airport, Denver. There were problems with one engine and they had to drop kerosine to lighten the plane and land as soon as possible. After 40 minutes we landed at Denver. For the first time in years people start applauding when the plane landed safe. A new plane took us then to Washington where we had to wait 20 hours for the next flight. United dropped us in a fine resort, so they took care of next flights and a sleeping place. My GF had another seat than i had. I was sitting at the emergency exit, see at he end of the plane. That was cuase they booked us to another plane with no place for 2 sitting next to eachother. We changed seats for the flight Denver - washington so she felt more comfortable. I think this was a bad week for flying. People that had flights to AEE and Internext had serious delays, 40+ hours. Maybe next time in Amsterdam, more safe for us

01-21-2010, 07:57 AM	#56
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	Why do people keep saying have more girls there? They dont have strip clubs where you live? lol

01-21-2010, 10:15 AM	#71
fuzebox making it rain Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: seattle Posts: 21,858	Couple of things. I think it's important not to confuse cheapness with value. People don't book rooms at the Gold Coast because they're poor, they do it because there is little extra value in being in the more expensive venue across the street. I don't think anyone would mind a more expensive hotel (Westin Diplomat, Mission Palms, for example) if they were getting their moneys worth. You can say it's not fair to compare to other better shows all you want, but that's what the attendees are doing. By the same token, guilt shouldn't be your only way of selling those $300 badges. If they were worth $300, everyone would buy one. Show threads always complain about value. I mean really, take a sheet of paper and write down what someone with a badge receives compared to someone without a badge... it's pretty funny.

01-21-2010, 10:42 AM	#77
Tasty1 Judge Jury and Executioner Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: South-America Posts: 8,939	People buy a badge for; seminars, floorparties, playboy club parties, open bar parties, fun, networking, talk about experiences. - seminars, to early to attend - floorparties, the best were in Goldcoast and Sapphire - playboy club parties - none - open bar parties, few - fun - networking, circle bar - talk about experiences, circle bar - floorshow, much billing So next year in hooters? - everyone drops 100 dollar for an own bar and beer - sponsors/ affiliates can rent a booth/chair in the bar, we spend that on alcohol - seminars are 25 dollars, sponsors can buy a seat in the panel - from 11 - 18:00 the bar is also the showfloor - from 19:00 - 21:00 walk in buffet - sponsors can sponsor more booze, or dinners and better club parties - after 19:00 there is a cheap bar, beer 1 dollar, domestic drinks 2 dollar - 20 dollar lapdance not included, can be sponsored All we need is a cheap bar, a seminar room and affiliates organise it. We can easily promote it by using our newsletters, msn, forums and sites we make banners, every sponsor / attendee that signs up by your aff id will get 10 dollar off from the hotel price. We send newsletters to all sponsors/attendees with affiliate id's in it. That money will be spend on drinks. Let's go dutch. Maybe it is possible for affiliates to set up floorparties. Why wait till a big sponsors set something up.

01-21-2010, 11:59 AM	#86
Redmanthatcould Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,771	I'd like to see the show move to a smaller hotel, without a casino, that's still upscale. That way you can rent out the entire place, and do a lot more business. The Palms' "casino" is a joke anyways, and anyone that wants to gamble can just play 2 less hands of BJ for a cab to a big casino. Something like the Artisan hotel would be perfect - it reminds me of a classier Roosevelt. Try to put more value into the badge-required events...hire some big mainstream SEO guys to give keynotes or workshops, and have actual events during the day instead of just the show floor. As it stands now, there's really no point in buying a badge, or even attending the show for all the days; you could get all your business done in one day at the circle bar, with no badge or room fee.

01-21-2010, 12:34 PM	#89
fuzebox making it rain Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: seattle Posts: 21,858	Organizing a show is a business, and the show is a product. If it isn't worth the price tag, people are not going to buy. If the area outside the show (circle bar, casino) are more interesting than the area inside the show (overpriced drinks, billing companies of the month), why should people 1) bother going inside or 2) pay for that privilege? Because they don't want to "look broke"?