Is now the time for affiliates to switch to PPS?

[Shap]

As you may know we run an affiliate program and we are affiliates of many programs. We get to see both ends of the situation. Recently my free site manager brought up the idea of switching, our affiliate accounts, to PPS. We haven't done it but it's being discussed. With the volatility in the banking sector as well as the industry as a whole it really isn't a bad idea. At the very least you have to be VERY VERY Careful who you choose to use for revshare. You have to join the site and see how they treat your credit card as well as how they treat members (ie updates, amount of content etc).

What are your thoughts?

[Wilsy]

Hi Shap I think that Rev share can be great as long as you are with a solid sponser and they are not hammering the cross sales out.

I think the way things are at the minute you will see less and less programs offering massive PPS as they do at the moment

[LoveSandra]

i think will be a great idea

[Stef.]

shit reply by lovesandra, as always...

Anyways,
i promote mostly revs and my ratio sale/rebill is still very good

[Shap]

Originally Posted by RSTGP_Stef

shit reply by lovesandra, as always...

Anyways,
i promote mostly revs and my ratio sale/rebill is still very good

Sale/rebill ratio isn't the issue you have to worry about.

[kane]

Over time I have found that I seem to make about the same amount of money with revshare as I do PPS. The difference is that the revshare payments take 3-4 months for me to get the money from rebills where PPS I get it right then. I do still use a few Revshare programs because that is all they offer or it is what I started with and I don't want to go back and change links, but these days I am about 90% PPS. I would rather get the money up front then risk the program going out of business or the site no longer being update etc and me then not making as much as I could.

[Sly]

I personally have actually been moving more to rev, but like you said, you have to be very selective in the programs you do that with.

[PR_Dave]

We offer both options. Majority use PPS.

Here are some details on our Revshare, it's much different then what your average cookie cutter program offers:

http://pimproll.com/super-revshare.html

www.PimpRoll.com has a variety of banking relationships that ensure your recurring DB would not be lost.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by kane

Over time I have found that I seem to make about the same amount of money with revshare as I do PPS. The difference is that the revshare payments take 3-4 months for me to get the money from rebills where PPS I get it right then. I do still use a few Revshare programs because that is all they offer or it is what I started with and I don't want to go back and change links, but these days I am about 90% PPS. I would rather get the money up front then risk the program going out of business or the site no longer being update etc and me then not making as much as I could.

Smart move. You get it

[Jack Sparrow]

My prediction is that nore and more programs will lose the pps, especially those that cant cross-sell anymore or never did.

Im on both ends too, i have always had this mix between pps and revshare. Pps for the fast buck to invest, but revshare because its making way more money with less traffic on the long run.

[FlexxAeon]

i chose revshare on very select few programs and it's whats keeping me profitable.

but the THING is... the whole revshare vs. PPS as a choice is all over the place! many times, programs that i'd want to go revshare with will only offer PPS, and vice versa. so i'm not as in control as i'd like to be

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Shap

Sale/rebill ratio isn't the issue you have to worry about.

exactly

ANYONE is prone today to loosing their mids or 3rd party accts. If the bank shuts you down what good is that revshare now?

revshare is a risky business move IMHO for atleast the next 12-18 months

[beerptrol]

I love revshare but what worries me is a sponsor killing it's affiliate program and keeping the rebills for themselves Times are tough and I think more programs will go tits up

[iSpyCams]

Originally Posted by Forest

exactly

ANYONE is prone today to loosing their mids or 3rd party accts. If the bank shuts you down what good is that revshare now?

revshare is a risky business move IMHO for atleast the next 12-18 months

I am curious as to where the 12-18 month timeframe comes from. Is that how long you think it will take for the dust to settle on all the shady processing practices being purged?

[Forest]

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

I am curious as to where the 12-18 month timeframe comes from. Is that how long you think it will take for the dust to settle on all the shady processing practices being purged?

ive been around a long time (11 years this august) and i have seen many times like this and not just in billing.

this industry and people people in it and processing for it have a short memory. This too shall pass and the banks will calm down and loosen their risk management as they want more revenue. Things will go back to what they were and people in the biz will find a new way to skin the cat.

they always do

12-18 months is a good estimate. BUT be prepared for the next 6-12 months. there will be a huge amount of risk ahead for both programs and affiliates.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

I am curious as to where the 12-18 month timeframe comes from. Is that how long you think it will take for the dust to settle on all the shady processing practices being purged?

If you mean for all the huge mainstream "shady" processing practices...maybe. And if you mean for the shady shit that Congress is all over Visa itself for pulling...maybe.

In the meantime, I always promote revshare. And thank God I always have even when there were much BIGGER scares with processing (like when AMEX pulled out or when PayPal pulled or when IBill went down, and the list goes on and on). That's why I have always made a lot of money as an affiliate and always will. I keep a steady course. I would suggest you do the same.

As a program owner of course, I would encourage you all to promote Claudia-Marie.Com and use the PPS option. I'd much rather pay you that one time and keep all the profits from there out.

[CarlosTheGaucho]

Only the very best programs don't offer no revshare at all.

I'd sure like to go revshare with Nastydollars.

[Caligari]

thats a tricky question.
i do 70% pps right now and i was thinking about going to 50% with pps BUT i've seen some problems as people have said with sites shutting down suddenly. ALSO with some of the rev share i am doing the rebills are awful.
2 months retention at best and a couple of the sites are TOP NOTCH in what they offer with updates etc.

but i think i might stay with pps at 70% from what i am seeing here.

[fuzebox]

Very few revshare programs have earned me $30+ per member with trials.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by fuzebox

Very few revshare programs have earned me $30+ per member with trials.

And you probably see one of the reasons for that when you read support emails. A lot of times people have made up their mind BEFORE they join a site that they don't want to get rebilled for whatever reason.

So you'll see their join come in at noon. And at one minute after noon you get a support email asking to cancel so they won't be rebilled in a month. They haven't even logged in to the site yet, they just do that as standard operating procedure.

It's not a lot of people statistically speaking (thank God), but it does happen.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Shap

As you may know we run an affiliate program and we are affiliates of many programs. We get to see both ends of the situation. Recently my free site manager brought up the idea of switching, our affiliate accounts, to PPS. We haven't done it but it's being discussed. With the volatility in the banking sector as well as the industry as a whole it really isn't a bad idea. At the very least you have to be VERY VERY Careful who you choose to use for revshare. You have to join the site and see how they treat your credit card as well as how they treat members (ie updates, amount of content etc).

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that you must be kidding.

If you want to chose a program that will fail then choose one that only offers PPS.

They get more sign ups then they can pay for and then haul ass.

[Varius]

Affiliates should have been contemplating this for a long time already (years), not just now

Generally, products like Cams and Sex Toys, if the site is long-standing and hasn't earned any reputation for shady billing practices, you want to be on Revshare with those.

Until a few years back I would have said the same about dating, but with the rampant fake activity, you are probably better off with PPS for almost all of them.

As for paysites, if it is a micro-niche or very niche site from a company who updates frequently and isn't known for problems, you can consider Revshare. Anything else, PPS.

Another thought I never see mentioned much is, say you push a site that would make you slightly less on PPS as it does on Revshare, but the Revshare takes 4 months. If you received the money in Month 1, re-invested it in your business(traffic, advertising, scaling, whatever) - would you be able to turn it into more money by Month 4 than the difference?

[epitome]

When I think of revshare, I think of the saying "I will gladly pay you $1 tomorrow for a hamburger today."

I will stick to PPS.

[gleem]

well if it weren't for PPS programs doing x-sells and other risky shit like $100PPS using double x-sell and forced upsell a page before they could even login along with blind upsale links in the members area, we wouldn't be in the world of shit we are in now.

Think about that.

[SGS]

How many non paying revshare threads are there here compred with non paying PPS?

[Mutt]

as the dude above me said - you just don't see revshare only programs with exclusive content ever having any of these problems. it's ALWAYS the PPS programs who are leaving affiliates in the lurch and you'll be seeing a lot more of it.

if the concern is that you might not get paid, small affiliates who spread their sales over hundreds of sites should be sticking with CCBILL and Epoch revshare programs and exclusive content sites that do revshare with their own processing - they carry risk too though, when their merchant bank pulls out of adult if they don't have another merchant account for backup they can't bring their rebilling members over to Epoch or CCBILL.

any small program that uses NATS or MPA3 and does their own payouts during these shitty times carries a greater risk, you have no idea what lifestyle they've become accustomed to - knowing adult webmasters they are probably into a lifestyle where they are spending everything they make on supporting that lifestyle, when sales go into the toilet and the mortgage and payments on the McMansion and the cars and boats can't be paid - good chance you won't be seeing your affiliate money.

[CarlosTheGaucho]

Originally Posted by Mutt

any small program that uses NATS or MPA3 and does their own payouts during these shitty times carries a greater risk, you have no idea what lifestyle they've become accustomed to - knowing adult webmasters they are probably into a lifestyle where they are spending everything they make on supporting that lifestyle, when sales go into the toilet and the mortgage and payments on the McMansion and the cars and boats can't be paid - good chance you won't be seeing your affiliate money.

Meaning like the "Pete KT style hustlaz" ?

[SleazyDream]

hummm, the sponser makes more on PPS ...... lol


damn dutchmen

[FrozenJag]

The time was about 2 to 3 years ago but especially in the last 1 to 2 years.

You should listen to him and then give him a raise.

Only time I do revshare is when its the only option or they are trying to bullshit around with 15 to 25 pps. As long as you can turn OFF trials! If not then maybe would still do 25 pps or just not promote them at all. Almost all programs are 30 to 50 range though.

[NaughtyRob]

I think its the other way around, PPS programs are always the ones that people are going after for non payment.

[FrozenJag]

Originally Posted by gleem

well if it weren't for PPS programs doing x-sells and other risky shit like $100PPS using double x-sell and forced upsell a page before they could even login along with blind upsale links in the members area, we wouldn't be in the world of shit we are in now.

Think about that.

Of course but why am I going to make less money using revshare when 90 percent of companies do whats explained above? So they can pay me .50 that doesnt rebill because they banged them with 2 xsales. Or do I take the 40 pps and do what I gotta do? Its not my fault they are xselling.

Why take 50 cents when they made 50 bucks even though the customer didnt rebill. Sounds like I took an ass fucking compared to 40 pps and move onto the next sale.

[BV]

Originally Posted by gleem

well if it weren't for PPS programs doing x-sells and other risky shit like $100PPS using double x-sell and forced upsell a page before they could even login along with blind upsale links in the members area, we wouldn't be in the world of shit we are in now.

Think about that.

qft!!!!!!!!

[BV]

Originally Posted by NaughtyRob

I think its the other way around, PPS programs are always the ones that people are going after for non payment.

qft.......

[gleem]

Originally Posted by FrozenJag

Of course but why am I going to make less money using revshare when 90 percent of companies do whats explained above? So they can pay me .50 that doesnt rebill because they banged them with 2 xsales. Or do I take the 40 pps and do what I gotta do? Its not my fault they are xselling.

Why take 50 cents when they made 50 bucks even though the customer didnt rebill. Sounds like I took an ass fucking compared to 40 pps and move onto the next sale.

I have never used a program that does x-sells and recurring, that's just retarded. the only ones that do that are PSS biz models that have a token recurring program, and you would have to be dumb to even try that.

[Relentless]

Keep your own traffic in mind. Sites of mine that send traffic likely to recur long term are revshare, sites unlikey to recur are PPS. If you send sales to dozens of programs rather than just a few your risk is also somewhat mitigated.

Also look at the REAL payouts. On a program like pimproll where revshare includes upsells it often pays put much better than PPS with quality traffic...

However on another program where they are not including other revenue that may not be the case.

Also, look for the websitesecure.org seal on their join page. That seal makes it very easy to see who is NOT screwing your traffic. Websitesecure checks join forms, terms, privacy policies , does test joins and cancels etc...So it's an excellent resource for webmasters as well as consumers.

[Nurgle]

Shap.. u wouldnt be trying to slyly get ure webmasters to switch to PPS.. so u can make a better cut..

if so.. congrats as i make way more revshare on twistys than i would PPS

[FrozenJag]

Originally Posted by gleem

I have never used a program that does x-sells and recurring, that's just retarded. the only ones that do that are PSS biz models that have a token recurring program, and you would have to be dumb to even try that.

You must not promote but a handful of programs then. Thats about how many dont do atleast something to do with cross sales.

I have 175 sponsors in alot of different niches. I have little choice at the end of the day or I wouldnt have enough content and programs to promote.


edit** I see what your saying. Yes that would be retarded indeed. Its just that some sponsors you dont have a choice but you just do what you can to avoid them.

[Roald]

now where did I read this message before....

;)))

[gleem]

Originally Posted by FrozenJag

You must not promote but a handful of programs then. Thats about how many dont do atleast something to do with cross sales.

I have 175 sponsors in alot of different niches. I have little choice at the end of the day or I wouldnt have enough content and programs to promote.


edit** I see what your saying. Yes that would be retarded indeed. Its just that some sponsors you dont have a choice but you just do what you can to avoid them.

I only do revshare on sites that don't have x-sell or upgrades before the mem area, and of course when I do revshare it's pretty easy to see after a few months how it stacks up against a PPS program, if they suck at rebills, move on. Gotta see what you are making per click over the long term compared to other programs.

[The Porn Nerd]

Basically, it depends on what you, as a business man running your life, wants for YOU personally:

The most amount of $ in the shortest possible time: PPS

Long-term "stability" from a company like CCBill or Epoch that you KNOW will pay you every single week, like a paycheck: Revshare

Many do a "combo" depending on the program, not wanting to keep all their 'eggs' in one basket; Revshare for the long(er)-term 'stability" and those nice PPS promo days for the immediate "let's go have a nice weekend in Vegas" money.

But in terms of a philosophical "what's good for the Industry"-type of thing I say this:

99.9% of the "Hey fucker pay me!" threads are PPS programs. PPS is the "arena" where shady Gladiators often play - harvest those affiliate sales, don't pay your affiliates, delay delay delay then POOF! Pop up four months later with a new PPS and rinse and repeat.

So: if you like higher risk becuase of the higher reward, go PPS. If you want to build something (relatively) more stable and long-term: Revshare. Two cents.

Oh, and promote PeabodyCash websites.

[nation-x]

considering I make twice as much per month from rebills as new sales... the answer is no.

[TeenCat]

with pps you are supporting all those shady practices, if there will be no high pps, there will be less scamms at the surfers. i am on revs everywhere where its possible, with pps i can make few thousands more per month, but i have been surfer once so i am trying to play nice ...

[Wilsy]

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Basically, it depends on what you, as a business man running your life, wants for YOU personally:

The most amount of $ in the shortest possible time: PPS

Long-term "stability" from a company like CCBill or Epoch that you KNOW will pay you every single week, like a paycheck: Revshare

Many do a "combo" depending on the program, not wanting to keep all their 'eggs' in one basket; Revshare for the long(er)-term 'stability" and those nice PPS promo days for the immediate "let's go have a nice weekend in Vegas" money.

But in terms of a philosophical "what's good for the Industry"-type of thing I say this:

99.9% of the "Hey fucker pay me!" threads are PPS programs. PPS is the "arena" where shady Gladiators often play - harvest those affiliate sales, don't pay your affiliates, delay delay delay then POOF! Pop up four months later with a new PPS and rinse and repeat.

So: if you like higher risk becuase of the higher reward, go PPS. If you want to build something (relatively) more stable and long-term: Revshare. Two cents.

Oh, and promote PeabodyCash websites.

Agreed and great post

[bbobby86]

Originally Posted by RSTGP_Stef

shit reply by lovesandra, as always...

Anyways,
i promote mostly revs and my ratio sale/rebill is still very good

yea...

[fuzebox]

The "long term" argument becomes less and less relevant as retention suffers in this industry... No matter how often you update and how clean your billing is

[FrozenJag]

Originally Posted by nation-x

considering I make twice as much per month from rebills as new sales... the answer is no.

That doesnt really mean anything though when you think about it.

If you were doing PPS your new sales overall amount would be way way higher therefore cancelling out your theory.

[Davy]

Originally Posted by Shap

switching, our affiliate accounts, to PPS.

That would be really fucked up. Way to go, bro!

[AmeliaG]

I think more PPS programs are going to close than revshare ones. I find customers are tending to buy year memberships or else rebilling for a shorter time, when monthly used to be most common. So, depending on whether longer discounted memberships are attractive enough, you might get more dough short term from some PPS programs, if their rebills are not good enough, but the flip side is that the PPS programs, especially ones with low rebills, are the ones most likely to get in over their heads in the current economy and be unable to pay.

Edit: Thinking about it, I do tend to go PPS with the occasional program, usually if the sponsor is both really really really big and established *and* the content is fairly non-niche. Even so, approx 100% of the folks I've had trouble collecting from seem to fall under that category.

[Brujah]

A few years ago I wouldn't have thought this, but today is a different Shap. If he's advising one thing, the likely motive behind it is greed. More money for Shap, and less for you.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Originally Posted by Brujah

A few years ago I wouldn't have thought this, but today is a different Shap. If he's advising one thing, the likely motive behind it is greed. More money for Shap, and less for you.

I concur.

Shap is a greedy asshole and I feel he will fuck you over at first opportunity.