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Or is the whole "Afghanistan is unconquerable" idea just a myth?

Afghanistan has been conquered several times: From the Persian emperor Darius to Alexander the Great to the Kushans to the Islamic conquests to the Mongols and Tamerlane to the Moguls to the Persian Nadir Shah. It was only in the late 1700s than Afghanistan had a string of local Pashtun leaders. This spanned all the way to the famous Soviet defeat of the 80s.

Maybe the question should not revolve around "conquest" per se but establishing a working peace among the MANY ETHNICITIES that populate the hasty borders that colonial powers (namely the British) assembled as modern AFGHANISTAN. Maybe Afghanistan is less a MILITARY puzzle but more of how to help foster a multicultural confederation. The standard / conventional wisdom framing of the problem as primarily a "Taliban" or "military" issue misses the much larger cultural dynamics of Afghanistan. The Taliban is primarily a PASHTUN movement--with its own distinct power source and cultural motives.

If the West can help birth a SOLUTION in Afghanistan, it would go a long way in helping solve problems elsewhere. Afghanistan's problems are actually shared by many African and Asian countries--how to create a working centralized government in light of the reality of older cultural allegiances.



What do you think?

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Paul Markham

Afghanistan is rules by local warlords and mullahs. The idea of getting them to all work together is crazy.

Bringing the country into the 21st century might help but I'm not so sure that can be done.

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LongBG

I think, fuck it.. Continue to conquer.

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I would agree that it would be "crazy" if Western concepts of representative democracy are "stamped" into Afghanistan. But why not work within the tribal/cultural loyalties. And let the map reflect such cultural reality?

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DVTimes

Afghanistan is full of worriers, and we are fighting with an army.

hystorically no army has ever beaten wrorriers.

it was why hadran simply built the wall to cut scotland off rather than invading as he knew it was pointless.

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Interesting point. The Celtic clans were fragmented and the Romans' pattern of governance is based on stable "centers". In that scenario there were none. Compare that to their experience in Gaul. Maybe there's a lesson here that the Americans/NATO forces can learn from. Actually, one Russian plan was to just hold the cities and connect them via air routes.

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Ethersync

Here is Reagan hanging out in the Whitehouse with some Taliban...

ottopottomouse

You can't conquer somewhere that is divided up into lots of small places all with their own local leader and local forces and with sympathetic supporters outside the country both ready to fund defence and also ready to actually go there and help defend.

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james_clickmemedia

yep, I agree.
We need to get out of that country now and stop waisting money.

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Paul Markham

One of the earliest lessons given out in sales or marketing is;

You can change what a person knows easily.
Changing what he believes is often impossible.

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The Duck

Funny how they are labeled freedom fighters in that case and terrorists today.

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I think you got to the core of the issue if what you meant was how to synch what the "developed" or outside world BELIEVES with what the tribal/ethnic/regional groupings on the ground in Afghanistan KNOW.

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Ethersync

Yeah, Reagan even dedicated a space shuttle launch to them.

The whole "Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan" was really the Soviets supporting the Afghan government, a long time ally going back to even before Soviet times, against the Islamic militants, who were funded, trained and armed by the US, and who were kicking their ass. The Afghan government had a treaty with the Soviets (similar to NATO) and they asked the Soviets for help with fighting what is now the Taliban. The Western media painted it all as the Soviets invading the good people of Afghanistan when in reality it was the Soviets fighting the very same people we are fighting today.

The only person to successfully subjugate Afghanistan was Genghis Khan.

officegirl2006

yes its unwinnable unfortunately in my opinion....
well unless you nuke em

natasha
xxx

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magicmike

They have to police and improve peoples lives. I know thats what the Canadian troops role is over there at least.

Then the people will not be intimidated by warlords etc, that shouldn't exist in modern society, its a backwards place.

Through improving peoples lives and letting them make some money and bringing them into the rest of the world, more than farming poppies and selling drugs does. They can start to fix afghanistan.

You don't fix afghanistan by conquering and warring, but the taliban and those that support them have a reason to keep fighting. The taliban still rule outside the cities, its a crazy place thats for sure... but i think the people that want help deserve it, esp. after what has been done to both sides as a result of the cold war.

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Maybe the answer is in the question of WHY does the Taliban rule outside the cities. What kind of cultural space and needs hierarchy do they fill? Are there ways to engage these needs that may lead to peace and cooperation?

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