Ground-zero "mosque" fact-check

[Brujah]

Islam is already part of the WTC neighborhood.

No mosque is going up at ground zero. The center would be established at 45-51 Park Place, just over two blocks from the northern edge of the sprawling, 16-acre World Trade Center site. Its location is roughly half a dozen normal Lower Manhattan blocks from the site of the North Tower, the nearest of the two destroyed in the attacks.

The center's location, in a former Burlington Coat Factory store, is already used by the cleric for worship, drawing a spillover from the imam's former main place for prayers, the al-Farah mosque. That mosque, at 245 West Broadway, is about a dozen blocks north of the World Trade Center grounds.

Another, the Manhattan Mosque, stands five blocks from the northeast corner of the World Trade Center site.

To be sure, the center's association with 9/11 is intentional and its location is no geographic coincidence. The building was damaged in the Sept. 11 attacks and the center's planners say they want the center to stand as a statement against terrorism.

...

Muslims also pray next to the Pentagon site.

The Pentagon opened an interfaith chapel in November 2002 close to the area where hijacked American Airlines flight 77 slammed into the building, killing 184 people.

Muslims gather there for a daily prayer service Monday through Thursday and hold a weekly worship service on Fridays, drawing no complaints. Similar but separate services are provided for other faiths.

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0818/ap-...-neighborhood/

[Scott McD]

Originally Posted by Brujah

Islam is already part of the WTC neighborhood.

And who's fault is that?



Anyway, i wouldn't have any fucking idiotic mosque's in the country. Here in the UK i think we have more mosque's than churches now.

I don't go doing any religious shit in other country's, i don't expect people to come and do it here either...

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

And who's fault is that?



Anyway, i wouldn't have any fucking idiotic mosque's in the country. Here in the UK i think we have more mosque's than churches now.

I don't go doing any religious shit in other country's, i don't expect people to come and do it here either...

the reason most of our families came here was for religious freedom

so no surprise here really

[Brujah]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

And who's fault is that?



Anyway, i wouldn't have any fucking idiotic mosque's in the country. Here in the UK i think we have more mosque's than churches now.

I don't go doing any religious shit in other country's, i don't expect people to come and do it here either...

I know, you poor thing. You can't help it that you were born in a country that believes in religious freedom. It was that way long before you were born. I bet there are countries you could move to that don't have any of this religious freedom bullshit.

[Scott McD]

Originally Posted by Brujah

I know, you poor thing. You can't help it that you were born in a country that believes in religious freedom. It was that way long before you were born. I bet there are countries you could move to that don't have any of this religious freedom bullshit.

Religious Freedom = Bending over backwards for fucktards that wouldn't do the same for you in their country...

[The Demon]

I love the liberals on this forum. They symbolize the dumbest of the dumbest. First they complain about religion and call everyone who doesn't like them or Obama "religious fanatics". Then when the Muslims want to build a mosque in the vicinity of where the WTC was, they're advocating religious freedoms. You gotta love idiots that think backwards.

[Vendzilla]

On the news last night, they said that there wasn't one muslim that lived within 1 mile of the Park 51 building

Also love the spin your putting on the distance from ground zero, nice touch
600ft is all

[Brujah]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Also love the spin your putting on the distance from ground zero, nice touch
600ft is all

Where do you see 600ft mentioned? Not that I care, I'm just not sure what you're talking about. How is 600ft being used as spin? Is that like the spin on calling a cultural center a mosque because a mosque will be inside it? Does that make the Pentagon a mosque too? How close does it have to be in order to be called "ground-zero mosque?" 5 blocks is too far but 2 blocks is ok?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

the reason most of our families came here was for religious freedom

so no surprise here really

and at that time there was no 'welfare' and actually the pilgrims came here to set up a up strict religious community with absolutely no freedom at all

[Brujah]

Originally Posted by The Demon

I love the liberals on this forum. They symbolize the dumbest of the dumbest. First they complain about religion and call everyone who doesn't like them or Obama "religious fanatics". Then when the Muslims want to build a mosque in the vicinity of where the WTC was, they're advocating religious freedoms. You gotta love idiots that think backwards.

Highlight an example for me? Where is a "liberal" posting that someone is a religious fanatic in the context of the Bill of Rights.

You aren't exactly known for caring about the truth or facts, but it'd be nice if you could back up just this one thing. I'm curious because I want to know if you can tell the difference. You see religious fanatics do exist, and so does freedom of religion. It isn't contradictory in itself.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by Brujah

Highlight an example for me? Where is a "liberal" posting that someone is a religious fanatic in the context of the Bill of Rights.

You aren't exactly known for caring about the truth or facts, but it'd be nice if you could back up just this one thing. I'm curious because I want to know if you can tell the difference. You see religious fanatics do exist, and so does freedom of religion. It isn't contradictory in itself.

I think you missed the point entirely. And I'm known for truth and facts, since I can present both in a clear, concise, and logical manner, something that eludes 99% of this forum. The only ones that claim I don't are the ones that themselves are both biased and incompetent. Let me dumb it down for you. The "liberals" on this forum shit on religion any chance they get. They constantly claim it should be outlawed. Then when a Mosque is to be built in the vicinity of the WTC, they suddenly start preaching freedom of religion. Hence the moronic, backwards thinking. Comprende?

[Brujah]

Originally Posted by The Demon

I think you missed the point entirely. And I'm known for truth and facts, since I can present both in a clear, concise, and logical manner, something that eludes 99% of this forum. The only ones that claim I don't are the ones that themselves are both biased and incompetent. Let me dumb it down for you. The "liberals" on this forum shit on religion any chance they get. They constantly claim it should be outlawed. Then when a Mosque is to be built in the vicinity of the WTC, they suddenly start preaching freedom of religion. Hence the moronic, backwards thinking. Comprende?

In otherwords, you can't prove what you just said in the previous post so you'll make up some more shit instead. Got it. I'll just stop bothering to reply to you then. If you change your mind and feel like proving what you said is true, I'll bother to respond. It should be easy for you to do since you're always throwing out numbers like 99% or even "all". Hell, you should be able to find it in 5 minutes even since there's just so dang much of it. Can't do it? Yeah, I didn't think so.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Brujah

. Its location is roughly half a dozen normal Lower Manhattan blocks from the site of the North Tower, the nearest of the two destroyed in the attacks.

half a dozen blocks?
does this look like half a dozen blocks?
or are you saying this is NOT a spin?

[Brujah]

The full quote was: The center would be established at 45-51 Park Place, just over two blocks from the northern edge of the sprawling, 16-acre World Trade Center site. Its location is roughly half a dozen normal Lower Manhattan blocks from the site of the North Tower, the nearest of the two destroyed in the attacks.

The first thing it says is that it is just over two blocks from the northern edge of the WTC site.

What's the spin?

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Brujah

The full quote was: The center would be established at 45-51 Park Place, just over two blocks from the northern edge of the sprawling, 16-acre World Trade Center site. Its location is roughly half a dozen normal Lower Manhattan blocks from the site of the North Tower, the nearest of the two destroyed in the attacks.

The first thing it says is that it is just over two blocks from the northern edge of the WTC site.

What's the spin?

the spin is throwing in half a dozen blocks, PERIOD half a dozen is a way of making it sound bigger than 6 blocks, they just threw that in there to make it sound bigger, basic sales pitch
Brass tacks, it's two blocks from the site, PERIOD

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

and at that time there was no 'welfare' and actually the pilgrims came here to set up a up strict religious community with absolutely no freedom at all

i suppose you can look at it that way

[Brujah]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

the spin is throwing in half a dozen blocks, PERIOD half a dozen is a way of making it sound bigger than 6 blocks, they just threw that in there to make it sound bigger, basic sales pitch
Brass tacks, it's two blocks from the site, PERIOD

You crack me up. Remove that HIGHLY OFFENSIVE sentence (which is probably true) and read the rest of the post.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by Brujah

In otherwords, you can't prove what you just said in the previous post so you'll make up some more shit instead. Got it. I'll just stop bothering to reply to you then. If you change your mind and feel like proving what you said is true, I'll bother to respond. It should be easy for you to do since you're always throwing out numbers like 99% or even "all". Hell, you should be able to find it in 5 minutes even since there's just so dang much of it. Can't do it? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Right, so you basically don't have any kind of argument and instead of trying to prove YOUR bullshit, you shift the burden of proof on me, because I've "proven" that you're neither intelligent, nor objective. Good try though Brujah.

[Bryan G]

What does it matter how close it is?? You think everyone that goes into that mosque is a Terrorist
While we are at it we should make sure there are no Catholic churches next to elementary schools, right??

[cwd]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

On the news last night, they said that there wasn't one muslim that lived within 1 mile of the Park 51 building

Wow, that must have been some serious investigative reporting to check each apartment within 1 mile of the proposed site and ask each person what their religion was. What news source was that from?

[ReGGs]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

half a dozen blocks?
does this look like half a dozen blocks?
or are you saying this is NOT a spin?

Yeah it doesn't look that far away at all... from space.


Two words. Pentagon Mosque. I bet none of you said shit about that.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by cwd

Wow, that must have been some serious investigative reporting to check each apartment within 1 mile of the proposed site and ask each person what their religion was. What news source was that from?

Don't see any apartment buildings, do you?

Originally Posted by ReGGs

Yeah it doesn't look that far away at all... from space.


Two words. Pentagon Mosque. I bet none of you said shit about that.

I know, funny they have one there too?
When less than 2% of the population is muslim

[cwd]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Don't see any apartment buildings, do you?

so it was a trick question? there are no muslims living within 1 mile of the proposed site because no one actually lives within 1 mile of the site? what news source was this from again?

[Tom_PM]

Muslim != terrorist.

Yes. It's really that simple.

[jjmerago]

Originally Posted by The Demon

Right, so you basically don't have any kind of argument and instead of trying to prove YOUR bullshit, you shift the burden of proof on me, because I've "proven" that you're neither intelligent, nor objective. Good try though Brujah.

Your and idiot! Not surprising your American. If you talk shit back it up! Its your burden of proof when you make false claims.

Only 60 years ago Hitler used Christianity to kill 6 million+ people.FACT! As of Aug 18th 2010 the Catholic church molests children around the world by thousands. Christianity has been responsible for more conflict terrorism and death in history the Islam PERIOD! The Basque separatists ETA, the IRA,anti-abortionists ( I think you get the point) Islam is going through the same things christianity went through when it turned 700. In the middle ages the popes highjacked the religion and committed the same atrocities (including mercy killings,honor killings,stake burning etc. etc.) Only dumb ignorant Yanks think otherwise.
There are only 2 options when you take sides with this.

1) You don't think its a big deal and that religious freedoms are one thing your country is proud of and what made it a once great nation.

2)Your a bigot! There is an actual Mosque closer to the dirt patch and its been since 1970 ... for you simpletons thats years before the towers were even built.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by cwd

so it was a trick question? there are no muslims living within 1 mile of the proposed site because no one actually lives within 1 mile of the site? what news source was this from again?

was something Oreilly said, so I looked at that picture and saw that really, no one lived within 1 mile of the place

[selena]

Originally Posted by Bryan G

What does it matter how close it is?? You think everyone that goes into that mosque is a Terrorist
While we are at it we should make sure there are no Catholic churches next to elementary schools, right??

[cwd]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

half a dozen blocks?
does this look like half a dozen blocks?
or are you saying this is NOT a spin?

do yo mean spin as in calling it the "Ground Zero Mosque" when it is not located at ground zero and is an islamic cultural center?

[cwd]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

was something Oreilly said, so I looked at that picture and saw that really, no one lived within 1 mile of the place

Funny, I was thinking that since the proposed site is approximately 1/10 of a mile from the ground zero site, that multiplying that distance times 10 would surely find some apartments or places where people live, at least looking at that picture anyway. But O'Reilly wouldn't just make something up, right? Not in the no spin zone, at least.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by jjmerago

Your and idiot! Not surprising your American. If you talk shit back it up! Its your burden of proof when you make false claims.

Only 60 years ago Hitler used Christianity to kill 6 million+ people.FACT! As of Aug 18th 2010 the Catholic church molests children around the world by thousands. Christianity has been responsible for more conflict terrorism and death in history the Islam PERIOD! The Basque separatists ETA, the IRA,anti-abortionists ( I think you get the point) Islam is going through the same things christianity went through when it turned 700. In the middle ages the popes highjacked the religion and committed the same atrocities (including mercy killings,honor killings,stake burning etc. etc.) Only dumb ignorant Yanks think otherwise.
There are only 2 options when you take sides with this.

1) You don't think its a big deal and that religious freedoms are one thing your country is proud of and what made it a once great nation.

2)Your a bigot! There is an actual Mosque closer to the dirt patch and its been since 1970 ... for you simpletons thats years before the towers were even built.

please refrain from spelling errors whilst calling someone an idiot ;)

[icymelon]

what happened to freedom of religion?

[2012]

keep an eye out for those terror babies

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by cwd

Funny, I was thinking that since the proposed site is approximately 1/10 of a mile from the ground zero site, that multiplying that distance times 10 would surely find some apartments or places where people live, at least looking at that picture anyway. But O'Reilly wouldn't just make something up, right? Not in the no spin zone, at least.

He does get things researched for him and when a mistake is made, he admits it. What I like about his show is he has liberals, conservatives, democrats, republicans and libertarians on his show. And there are things that he says Obama hs done right.

I try to watch GMA in the morning and Orielly at night, then read some yahoo during the day. Keeps a balance

[Scott McD]

Originally Posted by icymelon

what happened to freedom of religion?

You think you get the same freedom in "muslim" countries ??

[cwd]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

He does get things researched for him and when a mistake is made, he admits it. What I like about his show is he has liberals, conservatives, democrats, republicans and libertarians on his show. And there are things that he says Obama hs done right.

I try to watch GMA in the morning and Orielly at night, then read some yahoo during the day. Keeps a balance

O'Reilly is an entertainer, I will give him that. I wonder though, how many people hear him say no muslims live within 1 mile and simply leave it at that. I mean, looking at the map and drawing a radius of 1 mile (using the fact that from the ground zero site to the proposed cultural center is 1/10 of a mile) I would imagine there are apartments. New York is the most densely populated city in the US. I would love to see the research done to definitively state that there are no muslims living in those apartments.

But, it was said on a 24 hour news network, on a show that is very popular, and they would have no reason to simply make something up. Right?

[Coup]

big surprise.. vendzilla in here parroting everything foxnews tells him to. LOL

[Joshua G]

This is all babble because the builders will come to their senses & understand they will never live in peace on that site. ...or they will remain insensitive retards & will never live in peace when they build on that site.

[topnotch, standup guy]

Originally Posted by Brujah

How close does it have to be in order to be called "ground-zero mosque?" 5 blocks is too far but 2 blocks is ok?

The landing gear from one of the planes that crashed into the WTC landed on the roof of the proposed mosque. It's quite likely that body parts of some of the victims did as well.

I'd say that's pretty fucking close to ground zero.

Too fucking close.

[Bryan G]

Originally Posted by topnotch, standup guy

The landing gear from one of the planes that crashed into the WTC landed on the roof of the proposed mosque. It's quite likely that body parts of some of the victims did as well.

I'd say that's pretty fucking close to ground zero.

Too fucking close.

Got a link that verifies that?

[Brujah]

Originally Posted by Bryan G

Got a link that verifies that?

Wreckage scattered over a few miles, at least 2-1/2 miles I think. Still, it's just another piece of emotional garbage he wants to add to the discussion. We'll have him end up outraged about any mosque in the whole city next.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

please refrain from spelling errors whilst calling someone an idiot ;)

I think spelling errors are the least of his concerns with that hilarious post.

[topnotch, standup guy]

Originally Posted by Brujah

Wreckage scattered over a few miles, at least 2-1/2 miles I think. Still, it's just another piece of emotional garbage he wants to add to the discussion. We'll have him end up outraged about any mosque in the whole city next.

No, just any new mosque within the immediate area, of which that certainly qualifies on both counts.

Here's a couple of links Link one, Link two.

[cambaby]

You 9/11 victory HaMosque supporters are in the minority, gtfo.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by The Demon

I think spelling errors are the least of his concerns with that hilarious post.

don't get me wrong, he's dead on with what he was saying in the post. Religious freedom and tolerance is what your country is based on and it's sad to see this sort of media driven hysteria over something that i consider a 'non-issue'.

any strong society is unable to marginalize it's minorities this way, and if it does, puts the whole system at risk because it becomes unbalanced

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Don't see any apartment buildings, do you?

there are 100s and 100s of apartments within a 1mile radius of ground zero.
my ex-girlfriend lived in one, ~1200 feet away(circled in the photo) she had to clear out for several weeks after the tragedy, as did many many many others. it's manhatten, they have to put apartments everywhere. her bldg was ~20 stories of apartments if i recall correctly.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

don't get me wrong, he's dead on with what he was saying in the post. Religious freedom and tolerance is what your country is based on and it's sad to see this sort of media driven hysteria over something that i consider a 'non-issue'.

any strong society is unable to marginalize it's minorities this way, and if it does, puts the whole system at risk because it becomes unbalanced

Not exactly, especially when uses words like "bigot" without understanding its' definition. I'm not sure how you can call something like this a non issue. I think it's a huge issue. You can build a mosque anywhere, but they chose to do it within the vicinity of the WTC, and it's a NON issue? Not sure how someone can be that naive.

[Brujah]

Originally Posted by cambaby

You 9/11 victory HaMosque supporters are in the minority, gtfo.

Here you go.
http://www.gfy.com/profile.php?do=ad...ignore&u=17819

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by The Demon

Not exactly, especially when uses words like "bigot" without understanding its' definition. I'm not sure how you can call something like this a non issue. I think it's a huge issue. You can build a mosque anywhere, but they chose to do it within the vicinity of the WTC, and it's a NON issue? Not sure how someone can be that naive.

well there is economic, enviromental, and political struggles going on right now that i feel we should be spending our time and energy on

your concerns here, 'vicinity, propriety, respect'

far as i know, and that's not much by the way, there was already a mosque in the vicinity that was damaged in the attack

is it proper to build a mosque at ground zero? since they are building more of a community center in what could be described as the center of the known universe, well, yes.

and in conclusion, respect. in order for their action to be disrespectful, they would have to be in some way responsible for the attacks on the 9/11, and that is not correct. In fact, hundreds of muslims, americans, died in this attack.

if respect is in question, who is disrespecting who?

[Half man, Half Amazing]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

On the news last night, they said that there wasn't one muslim that lived within 1 mile of the Park 51 building

Maybe he meant 1 mile vertically.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

there are 100s and 100s of apartments within a 1mile radius of ground zero.
my ex-girlfriend lived in one, ~1200 feet away(circled in the photo) she had to clear out for several weeks after the tragedy, as did many many many others. it's manhatten, they have to put apartments everywhere. her bldg was ~20 stories of apartments if i recall correctly.

I just don't know how people could live there like that, I look out the window right now and see horses from the neighbors

Originally Posted by Brujah

Still, it's just another piece of emotional garbage he wants to add to the discussion. .

You mean like saying I hate Obama because he's black?

Originally Posted by Bryan G

Got a link that verifies that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/14/ny...nter.html?_r=2

Kinda puts in prospective as to the vailidity of it being close