Can no longer ask for surfer ZIP Code on signups? - GoFuckYourself.com

gleem · 02-10-2011, 07:29 PM

Looks like you can no longer ask for ZIP codes from surfers when they signup on the join form, at least in California:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110211/...ards_zip_codes

Quote:

SAN FRANCISCO – The California Supreme Court ruled Thursday that merchants can no longer ask for the ZIP codes of customers who make purchases with credit cards because such requests violate a state consumer-protection law.

He said gas stations that require ZIP codes be entered at the pump are exempt because the gas station "doesn't record the transaction." Stonebarger said that information is sent directly to the banks and credit card companies as a security measure and those transactions won't be affected.

The Supreme Court returned the case to the appeals court for further action, which could include assessing damages. Merchants can be fined up to $250 for a first time infraction and as much as $1,000 for additional violations.

Mike Burns, who represents the retailer Michaels Stores in a similar lawsuit said that several class action lawsuits on the ZIP code issue are pending throughout the state. He predicted more will be filed because of the ruling.

SmokeyTheBear · 02-10-2011, 07:47 PM

i don't get how gas pumps are exempt ?

online the zip code is used in much the same fashion, how is it any different if they simply don't record zips from cali

xenigo · 02-10-2011, 07:51 PM

I've always scratched my head when I surf a cell phone site like WireFly.com and their first question is "Please give us your zip code, so we can serve you better". Is this the lame-brain method of Geo-IP tracking?

I always give them 90210.

SteveHardeman · 02-10-2011, 08:06 PM

You can still use a zip code for billing verification. You just can't use it for marketing purposes. For gas stations, it's the bank asking for the zip to verify the card.

Twoface31 · 02-10-2011, 08:06 PM

um this was strange and also good for us

Spudstr · 02-10-2011, 08:11 PM

well this makes things difficult? American express validates your zip code against your card when you process the transaction.

xenigo · 02-10-2011, 08:15 PM

I guess this would explain why I've been seeing a ton of signups coming in without ZIP codes lately?

AmeliaG · 02-10-2011, 08:16 PM

Any idea what state consumer-protection law zip code verification violates?

woj · 02-10-2011, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Any idea what state consumer-protection law zip code verification violates?

Rochard · 02-10-2011, 08:42 PM

What they have gotten rid of is fucking Barnes and Nobles asking you for your zip before they even begin the transaction. These companies are just using this information for their own marketing research. Ross and TJ Max also do this as well.

Chevron still asks me for my zip code because it's using that info for credit card verification, not to track what city their customers live in.

will76 · 02-10-2011, 08:56 PM

Sounds stupid, they can't ask you for your zip code but yet it is ok to ask you for your home address including city, your telephone number, and anything else they want but nooooo can't enter in something broad like a zip code. makes no sense. Can someone explain the logic... if there is any ?

fuzebox · 02-10-2011, 09:05 PM

I hate how you can't buy anything without being asked for a ton of info... Half the time I tell them I am travelling and have no fixed address or phone.

BSleazy · 02-10-2011, 09:30 PM

cant buy clothes anywhere anymore without being asked for your fucking email address.

xenigo · 02-10-2011, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCyber

cant buy clothes anywhere anymore without being asked for your fucking email address.

Hmm... I've NEVER been asked for my email when buying clothes. And if I did, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves. They'd probably explain they don't spam, and I'd explain that I've never given my email to anyone that said they spammed... yet I still get spammed regularly to the email addresses I've given out...

DateDoc · 02-10-2011, 10:16 PM

Your CA tax dollars hard at work.

will76 · 02-10-2011, 10:17 PM

I've been asked my zip code, that one I don't care I will tell them. When they ask for my email, I just tell them I don't have one lol. They kind of look at me like "yeah right" I am sure they get that one from time to time. Although if the check out girl is cute I will ask her for hers first, that usually throughs them for a curve ball.

Its just a matter of time and they will have you trying to add their facebook page and following them on twitter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DateDoc

Your CA tax dollars hard at work.

you think CA would be more concerned about not going bankrupt. So what if people ask for your zip, they not putting a fucking gun to your head, just tell them no or give them the zip code for a city in alaska and fuck up their geo tracking data collecting shit.

gleem · 02-11-2011, 11:48 AM

Funny thing about this is, people & lawmakers are all against this zip code collection and get all bent out of shape about handing it over at stores, but these SAME people have no problem posting every detail of their life on FaceBook and twitter who both sell this info as well as track every site you goto on the net and sell that info as well.

Idiots

GrouchyAdmin · 02-11-2011, 11:50 AM

This is right up there with Visa wanting a <CORP NAME INITIALS>*BLAH.COM for descriptors. All they're trying to do is fuck you harder on the fees.

iamtam · 02-11-2011, 12:44 PM

what it would mean mostly is that the pre-join forms used by some programs to collect consumer data and email addresses cannot include zip codes, as that data is not only for the billing but for marketing.

Quentin · 02-11-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Any idea what state consumer-protection law zip code verification violates?

And the answer is (drum roll, please).... California Civil Code Section 1747-1748.7, AKA the "Song-Beverly Credit Card Act."

My understanding is that the Court interpreted 1747.8, specifically, such that its definition covers ZIP code data.

Here's the actual language of the pertinent section of the law:

Quote:

1747.8. (a) Except as provided in subdivision (c), no person, firm, partnership, association, or corporation which accepts credit cards for the transaction of business shall do either of the following:
(1) Request, or require as a condition to accepting the credit card as payment in full or in part for goods or services, the cardholder to write any personal identification information upon the credit card transaction form or otherwise.

The statute defines "personal identification information as:

Quote:

(b) For purposes of this section "personal identification information," means information concerning the cardholder, other than information set forth on the credit card, and including, but not limited to, the cardholder's address and telephone number.

I've only skimmed the decision thus far, so there might be more to the ruling than the court's reading of that section, but I think that's the only portion of the statute that would make sense as a basis for the ruling.

Kimmykim · 02-11-2011, 02:26 PM

Wow, lots of misinformation in this thread.

The CA law is in regards to swipe transactions with the customer present.

When someone is buying something at a POS terminal, the card company may require the store clerk to type in the last 4 digits of the card, which is pretty much designed to make the clerk actually look at the card and check the back for a signature. Then if the consumer hasn't signed the card, they are supposed to ask for ID. Most card companies don't ask for ZIP codes at POS since the customer is standing there with their card, and presumably, their ID.

Card not present transactions can ask for zip codes at the processing point, same as always, as that's one of the more basic card verification processes. It's no different than a gas station asking for a ZIP since there is no one standing at the pump to check to make sure the cardholder is the one using the card.

Kimmykim · 02-11-2011, 02:28 PM

(c) Subdivision (a) does not apply in the following instances:
(1) When the credit card is being used as a deposit to secure
payment in the event of default, loss, damage, or other similar
occurrence.
(2) Cash advance transactions.
(3) When the person, firm, partnership, association, or
corporation accepting the credit card is contractually obligated to
provide personal identification information in order to complete the
credit card transaction or is obligated to collect and record the
personal identification information by federal law or regulation.

marlboroack · 02-11-2011, 02:47 PM

I think it's total BS.

Quentin · 02-11-2011, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

Wow, lots of misinformation in this thread.

The CA law is in regards to swipe transactions with the customer present.

Correct - in quoting Amelia's question, I should have noted that the real answer to her question is "none," because this isn't about using ZIP codes as part of a verification protocol, at all.

It's a little less clear to me that it is specifically limited to in-person/swipe transactions, however. That's definitely the kind of transaction involved in Pineda v. Williams Sonoma, but the plain language isn't entirely definitive on that score... unless I'm missing something?

AmeliaG · 02-13-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

Wow, lots of misinformation in this thread.

The CA law is in regards to swipe transactions with the customer present.

When someone is buying something at a POS terminal, the card company may require the store clerk to type in the last 4 digits of the card, which is pretty much designed to make the clerk actually look at the card and check the back for a signature. Then if the consumer hasn't signed the card, they are supposed to ask for ID. Most card companies don't ask for ZIP codes at POS since the customer is standing there with their card, and presumably, their ID.

Card not present transactions can ask for zip codes at the processing point, same as always, as that's one of the more basic card verification processes. It's no different than a gas station asking for a ZIP since there is no one standing at the pump to check to make sure the cardholder is the one using the card.

Thanks, KK

Ron Bennett · 02-13-2011, 07:55 PM

Also, asking for at least a zip code, often used in conjunction with IP geolocation, is important for various hardcore niche sites to quickly filter out / redirect away potential customers who may be accessing from locales with strict local community standards.

Ron

02-10-2011, 07:47 PM	#2
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	i don't get how gas pumps are exempt ? online the zip code is used in much the same fashion, how is it any different if they simply don't record zips from cali __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

02-10-2011, 08:06 PM	#4
SteveHardeman Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,728	You can still use a zip code for billing verification. You just can't use it for marketing purposes. For gas stations, it's the bank asking for the zip to verify the card. __________________ BrokeAmateurs And ErosPOV And GirlsGoingSolo And PureAshley Sign Up At AmateursConvert.com Questions? I-C-Q: 3Five1FiveFive3476

02-10-2011, 08:06 PM	#5
Twoface31 Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,746	um this was strange and also good for us __________________ Email: [email protected] HentaiG4h * Lusty Life ICQ: 291-953

02-10-2011, 08:11 PM	#6
Spudstr Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In a Tater Patch Posts: 2,321	well this makes things difficult? American express validates your zip code against your card when you process the transaction. __________________ Managed Hosting - Colocation - Network Services Yellow Fiber Networks icq: 19876563

02-10-2011, 08:16 PM	#8
AmeliaG Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,533	Any idea what state consumer-protection law zip code verification violates? __________________ GFY Hall of Famer AltStar Hall of Famer Blue Blood's SpookyCash.com Babe photography portfolio

02-10-2011, 07:51 PM	#3
xenigo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 8,067	I've always scratched my head when I surf a cell phone site like WireFly.com and their first question is "Please give us your zip code, so we can serve you better". Is this the lame-brain method of Geo-IP tracking? I always give them 90210.

02-10-2011, 08:15 PM	#7
xenigo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 8,067	I guess this would explain why I've been seeing a ton of signups coming in without ZIP codes lately?

02-10-2011, 08:42 PM	#10
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 73,264	What they have gotten rid of is fucking Barnes and Nobles asking you for your zip before they even begin the transaction. These companies are just using this information for their own marketing research. Ross and TJ Max also do this as well. Chevron still asks me for my zip code because it's using that info for credit card verification, not to track what city their customers live in. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

02-10-2011, 08:56 PM	#11
will76 Making $$$$ w/ ClickCash Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 18,037	Sounds stupid, they can't ask you for your zip code but yet it is ok to ask you for your home address including city, your telephone number, and anything else they want but nooooo can't enter in something broad like a zip code. makes no sense. Can someone explain the logic... if there is any ? __________________ ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com PROGRAM SHIT LIST - DO NOT PROMOTE (click link for gfy thread) FNCash \| Media Revenue

02-10-2011, 09:05 PM	#12
fuzebox making it rain Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: seattle Posts: 22,036	I hate how you can't buy anything without being asked for a ton of info... Half the time I tell them I am travelling and have no fixed address or phone.

02-10-2011, 09:30 PM	#13
BSleazy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: USA Posts: 6,721	cant buy clothes anywhere anymore without being asked for your fucking email address. __________________ icq 156131086

02-10-2011, 10:16 PM	#15
DateDoc Outside looking in. Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: To Hell You Ride Posts: 14,243	Your CA tax dollars hard at work. __________________

02-11-2011, 11:48 AM	#17
gleem Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sunny Land Posts: 5,593	Funny thing about this is, people & lawmakers are all against this zip code collection and get all bent out of shape about handing it over at stores, but these SAME people have no problem posting every detail of their life on FaceBook and twitter who both sell this info as well as track every site you goto on the net and sell that info as well. Idiots __________________ Contact me: \\// E: webmaster /at/ unprofessional.com

02-11-2011, 11:50 AM	#18
GrouchyAdmin Now choke yourself! Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 12,085	This is right up there with Visa wanting a <CORP NAME INITIALS>*BLAH.COM for descriptors. All they're trying to do is fuck you harder on the fees. __________________ AIM: GrouchyGfy

02-11-2011, 12:44 PM	#19
iamtam So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,211	what it would mean mostly is that the pre-join forms used by some programs to collect consumer data and email addresses cannot include zip codes, as that data is not only for the billing but for marketing.

02-11-2011, 02:26 PM	#21
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Wow, lots of misinformation in this thread. The CA law is in regards to swipe transactions with the customer present. When someone is buying something at a POS terminal, the card company may require the store clerk to type in the last 4 digits of the card, which is pretty much designed to make the clerk actually look at the card and check the back for a signature. Then if the consumer hasn't signed the card, they are supposed to ask for ID. Most card companies don't ask for ZIP codes at POS since the customer is standing there with their card, and presumably, their ID. Card not present transactions can ask for zip codes at the processing point, same as always, as that's one of the more basic card verification processes. It's no different than a gas station asking for a ZIP since there is no one standing at the pump to check to make sure the cardholder is the one using the card.

02-11-2011, 02:28 PM	#22
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	(c) Subdivision (a) does not apply in the following instances: (1) When the credit card is being used as a deposit to secure payment in the event of default, loss, damage, or other similar occurrence. (2) Cash advance transactions. (3) When the person, firm, partnership, association, or corporation accepting the credit card is contractually obligated to provide personal identification information in order to complete the credit card transaction or is obligated to collect and record the personal identification information by federal law or regulation.

02-11-2011, 02:47 PM	#23
marlboroack So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ☣ Posts: 9,327	I think it's total BS.

02-13-2011, 07:55 PM	#26
Ron Bennett Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,653	Also, asking for at least a zip code, often used in conjunction with IP geolocation, is important for various hardcore niche sites to quickly filter out / redirect away potential customers who may be accessing from locales with strict local community standards. Ron __________________ Domagon - Website Management and Domain Name Sales