JFK

One fitty frozen assets

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Suckerpunch

And the latest... http://newswire.xbiz.com/view.php?id=150447

BIGTYMER

Stick it to them CF!

Paul Markham

Paypal need to be told where the money is coming from to fund the selling of porn.

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lucas131

but you must agree they have balls, still up and fighting not like all the other services that quietly closed doors and pissed their pants, looks more like they think they are doing legal thing

Slappin Fish

Oron Can Only Withdraw $100K Judge Rules...

http://www.xbiz.com/news/150475

DWB

They were offered to settle for $500k. That's a big drop from 34 million.

Robbie

So let me get this straight...if any of us just so much as buys ANYTHING that PayPal suspects is "porn related" then they will close the account and never give you ANY Of your money.

But when Oron actually has their PayPal account FROZEN by a judge for piracy of porn....the account is still open?

And no...don't anybody tell me that it's because of the money. PayPal doesn't give a shit about that...they shut down all of adult years ago and kissed millions of dollars goodbye without hesitation.

That's the freakin' strange thing about the fact that they process for these pirate sites. EVERYBODY in the world...from 12 year olds to 90 year olds...know that is where the FREE PORN is.

No way in hell that not even one person at PayPal didn't realize that "yes" they are processing for porn when they process a file locker? And not only that...but they are processing for copyright infringrement?

Very strange. And since I don't believe in things "just happening", I can only assume that they are purposefully doing it. Perhaps in the same frame of mind that the govt. has had with allowing the porn industry to be gutted by piracy.

Intended to destroy our industry once and for all I guess.

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Quentin

The dodge from PayPal's perspective is that when people buy services from a cyberlocker through that cyberlocker's PayPal account, that consumer isn't buying content, or even buying access to content; he is merely buying the "cloud storage services" offered by the cyberlocker.

Don't get me wrong -- we all know that's a load of willfully blind bullshit. I'm just saying that "workaround," along with asserting the legal position that all of the illegal activity taking place on the cyberlockers is the sole responsibility of the individual users and not the cyberlocker operators themselves, is how PayPal rationalizes allowing cyberlockers to bill through them.

Yes, it's cynical as hell, and nowhere near in keeping with the spirit of the DMCA's safe harbor provisions.... but until or unless PayPal is successfully dragged into one of these fights as a defendant, or the law itself changes, I suspect PayPal will continue to maintain the same policies concerning cyberlockers.

The funny thing is, we operate a legitimate porn-specific file locker in PVLocker.com (all the content sold there is either ours or duly licensed from the rights-holder, users cannot share any content they upload, only store it and view it themselves through their own account, etc.) but I'm sure PayPal would not process for it, simply because it's porn-specific.

So, ironically, we can't sell our own content through our own cyberlocker by way of PayPal.... but a pirate can rip our videos, upload them to some sketchy, DMCA non-compliant cyberlocker, and sell access to it through PayPal all day long.

Go figure.

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Q. Boyer

Robbie

Yes Quentin, that's true...BUT, we've seen over and over where Paypal accounts have been shut down when programs paid their affiliates via Paypal.

That's much further off from buying porn than getting a membership to a file locker to download pirated materials.

And yet...that's what Paypal does. ANYTHING connected in any way to the legal and legitimate adult industry gets your account shut down. Even affiliate payments.

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Klen

Lol that's not filelocker,its itunes/clips4sale clone.Filelocker is when you offer free downloads(without need for registration) plus selling premium speed.But it's pretty nice site,definitely better then clip4sale,good luck with it.

Paul Markham

Or get dragged into the court of public opinion.

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AdultKing

I can assure you that is not Paypal's position. Illegal file lockers days are numbered with Paypal.

While Paypal will still only investigate them on a case by case basis, there's a lot of cases under review.

Phoenix

i have sat and spoke with a lawyer who works at the firm who represents paypal worldwide.
his response when i told him what a pile of crap paypal was...was that he was not aware of what i told him. And they were prepared to defend paypal. In the end off the record he says, all that happens is he will make more money.

Paypal seems to be untouchable.

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Tijuana_Tom

Man Robbie you need to cut down on the caffeine.

File Lockers is not against PayPals TOS.

Porn always has been.

PayPal has to cover their own Ass on every level not just to protect porn producers. This also easily becomes a massive legal matter with sites involved in illegal activities.

PayPal now has to go through their own internal process while following the rules.

Tijuana_Tom

I guess you don't talk to many lawyers. You will NEVER hear them talk bad about their client. It's an incredible skill.

Paul Markham

Maybe his firm will drop PayPal like a stone when the media tell everyone they represent PayPal.

This has nothing to do with legal, it's all about public opinion.

Still I agree with Tom. It's actually a wonder he spoke to you about a client.

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Jamie Gardner

You can use PayPal to pay for x-rated DVDs on Adult DVD Empire, Bush DVD, Excalibur Films, etc..

DWB

I think it's intentional.

It doesn't make sense otherwise.

DWB

That's great. If I sell the content on DVD, Paypal can be used. If someone steals that same content and loads it to a file locker for others to steal, Paypal can be used. If I sell the exact same content on a paysite, Paypal can not be used.

Barefootsies

Sorry my friend, but there is no anti-porn global conspiracy, with key players, being controlled at the highest levels of the government, or the banking industry working toward the total destruction of the porn business.

While it sounds like a plot straight out of the X-Files, it's just about as insane as FEMA being the "secret government". Which New Orleans showed was no where close to being accurate. For those who believes such fodder in the first place that is.

What you have going on here is the same as a hosting company, url shortener, registrar, 10 minute email, or alike. They are providing a service. That service is being abused.

I am not saying that these File Lockers repeatedly being discussed are not set up for the sole purpose to do whatever one is claiming in regards to piracy, content theft, copyright, and so forth. But from the outside looking in, they provide a sort of cloud hosting solution for people wanting to host their files.

That being said, I believe that you need to have a checks and balances in this equation. Which is probably the stance of the processor. They get complaints, approach the merchant who claims Sgt Schultz and will deal with abusers as they come up, but claim 90% of not that sort of abuse, etc.. Or they give them a three strikes out before closing their account, whatever the case is.

In short, unless you can prove active knowledge, such as affiliate programs or alike where people are paid to steal shit and upload it, you basically would have some degree of safe harbor if you can prove you are Sgt Schultz in regards to what is going on. However, in the case of ORON or some of these others, they have had active affiliate programs rewarding people for this behavior.

Sadly, the laws as they stand is a slippery slope. You have to prove knowledge of the infringement. You have to prove their whole business model is made up on this premise. You have to prove they are ignoring DMCA complaints, and not removing shit or telling you to fuck yourself.

There are many different issues involved here from just a legal stand point. Which does not even get into all of the Paypal complexities in regards to digital goods, and porn.

In the DWB example.... you setting up a porn website is a digital product specifically set up for the peddling of porn. A file locker (in theory) is not set up for the hosting, and distribution of porn. It is a sort of cloud hosting product, and that is it's supposed intent. Which, I am sure, is the position they are taking legally.

Your only defense here is to have the RYC's or alike start a DB collecting all of the DMCA and other complaints stemming from the theft, how quickly they respond to DMCA if at all, and then you can go to the processor with a mountain of evidence and show that they are not following U.S. copyright laws.

As most, not all, processing, Paypal, registrars, and alike are here in the states. You can hit them that way when the mountain of evidence shows that they are all about theft, versus providing a legitimate service. In summary, it's going to take a whole lot more legally that a few pornographers crying fowl.

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Should You Email Your Members?

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Barry-xlovecam

Barry-xlovecam

Tijuana_Tom

elaborate.

Barry-xlovecam

Barefootsies

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Should You Email Your Members?

Link1 | Link2 | Link3

Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Django

2000 (5 years) or more

DWB

No global conspiracy needed. It only takes one person sitting at the top of Paypal to do exactly what they are doing now.

You can send 100s or 1000s of DMCAs to Paypal, pointing out not only material that has been stolen from you, but also that it is adult in nature and they are processing for it. I personally have sent 100s, so I know collectively they have received 10s of 1000s (or more), all telling them that file locker X has porn on it. What do they do? Nothing. Even after 10s of 1000s notices, they bury their head in the sand.

However, if you or myself takes one payment from a customer to give access to one of our pay sites, and they find out about it, our paypal account is closed without question. Period.

So the question is to be asked, if they will do that over one sale, why won't they do ANYTHING after being notified 1000s of times, and usually those notifications are about the same handful of sites.

The only reason they are finally doing something is because of the association of child porn that is now public and spreading rapidly. It has nothing to do with porn or piracy, as they have ignored them for years.



This is what you get when you tell them about someone selling porn, beats sex, or child porn:

This is what you get after you send a DMCA for porn content:

Not once did the site in question have their account frozen or terminated, even though I've sent endless amounts of DMCAs on just one site, as have many others, and even though those sites have had child porn on them. The links have actually remained up after paypal was notified about them.

The fact is, not one of us knows why they are doing it. It could be because they really are that dumb, or it could be that the CEO wants to see the demise of the porn industry. None of us know the answer to that, and either are possible. Or maybe the CEO is just a big Jerry Sandusky who gets his rocks from downloading kiddy porn from the lockers.

Roald

Dont really think you can compare VPlocker with any of file lockers out there.

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Barefootsies

I feel your pain fine sire. You know this. However, you missed my point.

In the one example, you are a pornographer, and peddling porn, or directly receiving from porn. Your whole purpose for your pay site is to peddle porn. You receiving a payment from a sponsor is for peddling porn. There is a hard connection there, or line of proof, in that regard to say that you.... the DWB is involved in porn.

A file locker on the other hand, hosting company, search engine, registrar, proxy host, url shortener, 10 minute email service provider, is NOT a porn company (in theory). They actually are a service provider who 'may' have some porn using their service in some capacity... which may need to be removed, sgt schultz, against AUP, etc..... but they (in theory) have many more non-porn, non-copyright violator, customers who are using their service for a legitimate, legal, purpose.

Legally.... that is the slippery slope, and my original point here.

You have to show that those file lockers knowingly promote copyright theft. They knowingly host porn. They are knowingly involved with Oron, or alike in some capacity. They intentionally disregard DMCA notices, and copyright claims. You must have some level of PROOF.

Otherwise, it is being looked at as a one off issue with a couple of abusers on a service that has a million legal, legit, paying users. When a processor looks at it like that, they see the abusers are a drop in the bucket, and there are a million others not abusing. You have to show them otherwise.

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Should You Email Your Members?

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Paul Markham

PayPal don't care if they process for stolen goods. The "illegal" angle isn't going to work.

These headlines will.

PAYPAL USED TO PAY FOR XXXXXXX

XXXXXX can be what ever will shock the most.

Our job now is to get this into the court of public opinion.

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