Tech What's the best for delivery for adult email newsletters?

[onlytease]

We have a large double-opt in list for emails - both a daily update of the site and a weekly newsletter - all double opt in.

We currently use an inhouse system to send but our mail server is now heavily blacklisted.

So am looking at other solutions to send these out - any recommendations?

Am looking for something with an API where we can automate the sending out of mails.

Cheers Paul.

[onlytease]

No suggestions?

[The Porn Nerd]

I am emailing via the CCBill affiliate emails system - and it SUCKS. No way to opt out/unsubscribe. LOL

So I will be usig YNOT for mailings. But that can get expensive depending on the size of your list.

[Forest]

http://ynotmail.com/

[kumanaz]

for big list you have to use service with more IP addresses and IP blacklist monitoring

no way to stay white-listed in time. If you want proffesional help in this area contact me here: k u z m a n i n [at] gmail
just remove empty spaces and add dot comat the end of my email address.

[RazorSharpe]

Originally Posted by onlytease

We have a large double-opt in list for emails - both a daily update of the site and a weekly newsletter - all double opt in.

We currently use an inhouse system to send but our mail server is now heavily blacklisted.

So am looking at other solutions to send these out - any recommendations?

Am looking for something with an API where we can automate the sending out of mails.

Cheers Paul.

We use Interspire and SMTP.com for a list of 250K. It is the same solution ynotmail uses (or at least use to).

In the next few months however, we're going to switch the software we use to octeth (OEMPro) simply because we've evolved a bit and need things like segmenting which isn't an option with Interspire. Additionally, Interspire hasn't seen an update in ages and seems a dead project.

We'll also be testing out Amazon's SES solution with Octeth which is a great price but you need to manage bounces and whitelisting etc. Bounces can be handled automatically with Octeth or Interspire however so no issues there.

[onlytease]

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe

We use Interspire and SMTP.com for a list of 250K. It is the same solution ynotmail uses (or at least use to).

In the next few months however, we're going to switch the software we use to octeth (OEMPro) simply because we've evolved a bit and need things like segmenting which isn't an option with Interspire. Additionally, Interspire hasn't seen an update in ages and seems a dead project.

We'll also be testing out Amazon's SES solution with Octeth which is a great price but you need to manage bounces and whitelisting etc. Bounces can be handled automatically with Octeth or Interspire however so no issues there.

thanks for the reply

[Mickey_]

Have a chat with GammaCash, see if their solution could work as a win-win.

[dicknipples]

mailgun or mailchimp

[Roald]

Paul, drop me a line at r.riepen @ sansyl .com

Might have what you are looking for ;)

[RazorSharpe]

Originally Posted by Bowser Koopa

mailgun or mailchimp

Hardly feasible if he is pushing adult, not to mention they are really expensive. Especially when there are solutions like this available to use with Amazon SES: http://sendy.co/

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by onlytease

We have a large double-opt in list for emails - both a daily update of the site and a weekly newsletter - all double opt in.

We currently use an inhouse system to send but our mail server is now heavily blacklisted.

So am looking at other solutions to send these out - any recommendations?

Am looking for something with an API where we can automate the sending out of mails.

Cheers Paul.

YNOT is EXACTLY what you are looking for. I'll hit you up.

[onlytease]

Originally Posted by Roald

Paul, drop me a line at r.riepen @ sansyl .com

Might have what you are looking for ;)

thanks email sent
ta paul

[onlytease]

Originally Posted by Rochard

YNOT is EXACTLY what you are looking for. I'll hit you up.

all replied
ta
paul

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe

We use Interspire and SMTP.com for a list of 250K. It is the same solution ynotmail uses (or at least use to).

In the next few months however, we're going to switch the software we use to octeth (OEMPro) simply because we've evolved a bit and need things like segmenting which isn't an option with Interspire. Additionally, Interspire hasn't seen an update in ages and seems a dead project.

We'll also be testing out Amazon's SES solution with Octeth which is a great price but you need to manage bounces and whitelisting etc. Bounces can be handled automatically with Octeth or Interspire however so no issues there.

This is all the information you need Paul. RazorSharpe is totally right. Don't bother with YNOT, it is just an overpriced whitelabel of inter spire. They claim they have heavily customised it, but I couldn't see any proof of this when I trialled it for a client. Quickly switched away and had much better results for MUCH less money.

Stick with the advice in RS's post. It is SPOT on.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe

We'll also be testing out Amazon's SES solution with Octeth which is a great price but you need to manage bounces and whitelisting etc. Bounces can be handled automatically with Octeth or Interspire however so no issues there.

Going the ESP route, like Amazon, is only for the cleanest of clean lists. Most ESP's have a complaint threshold you can't go over or risk termination. I would suffice to say most people in adult do not do proper list management first and foremost.

Second, these is a lot more needed for effective email delivery than just loading up your spam cannon and firing away. While this 'may' get you some opens and clicks, there is significantly more involved in making the most of your data and offers.

As others have pointed out, clean ip's are a must for best delivery potential. You must segment and manage your data. That includes getting out old dead addresses, spamtraps, bounces, and alike. Then there is the matter of inboxing versus junking. Not to mention tracking all of your opens/clicks based on the different offers. Let's not forget content in your email creatives getting past spam filters, and so forth and so on.

As to the O.P, most of what DamainJ/RazorSharpe and that other chap are saying is true. In short, effective email marketing is a lot more than just loading up a mta and hitting send. Anyone can 'spam' someone and cross their fingers hoping for a sale. Effective email marketing on the other hand, is a whole different ball game.

[RazorSharpe]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Going the ESP route, like Amazon, is only for the cleanest of clean lists. Most ESP's have a complaint threshold you can't go over or risk termination. I would suffice to say most people in adult do not do proper list management first and foremost.

Agreed, which is why I said:

"but you need to manage bounces and whitelisting etc."

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe

Agreed

Indeed.

[onlytease]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Going the ESP route, like Amazon, is only for the cleanest of clean lists. Most ESP's have a complaint threshold you can't go over or risk termination. I would suffice to say most people in adult do not do proper list management first and foremost.

Second, these is a lot more needed for effective email delivery than just loading up your spam cannon and firing away. While this 'may' get you some opens and clicks, there is significantly more involved in making the most of your data and offers.

As others have pointed out, clean ip's are a must for best delivery potential. You must segment and manage your data. That includes getting out old dead addresses, spamtraps, bounces, and alike. Then there is the matter of inboxing versus junking. Not to mention tracking all of your opens/clicks based on the different offers. Let's not forget content in your email creatives getting past spam filters, and so forth and so on.

As to the O.P, most of what DamainJ/RazorSharpe and that other chap are saying is true. In short, effective email marketing is a lot more than just loading up a mta and hitting send. Anyone can 'spam' someone and cross their fingers hoping for a sale. Effective email marketing on the other hand, is a whole different ball game.

Totally agree with the above. I never said we are just spamming people, all the emails we send are to double opt in lists, or past / present members. And we manage all bouncebacks, unsubscribes, feedback loops correctly as well

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by onlytease

Totally agree with the above. I never said we are just spamming people, all the emails we send are to double opt in lists, or past / present members. And we manage all bouncebacks, unsubscribes, feedback loops correctly as well

I think you're getting defensive unnecessarily.

My comments were in general practice to mailing as a subject on the whole. They were not directed at you, nor at RazorSharpe, in regards to you being right or wrong. I was simply talking about best practices and my 2cts based on what was being discussed on topic. No more, no less. It was nothing personal toward either of you.

With that being said, the vast majority of the adult industry who talks on mailing/email marketing does not know what they are talking about. There is so much more to effective email marketing than simply being able to send the mail. As discussed above, there is plenty of other things to consider if you're looking at this from a long term strategy with the best ROI.

[Umbalabob]

I was testing around 7-8 different solutions and was involved in builiding a own system. We use now a partner for sending our stuff that was reaching the highest inbox rate. Let me know if I should hook you up with him.

[venus]

we are giving SMTP a try while our new server is being built, they seem really good with the small amount we have sent through already, but we mail weekly, and the cost would be to high for the amount of emails we send out a month. For us, using our own dedicated mail server is the way to go, been doing it for about 15 yrs that way.

basically anyone wanting to mail needs to compare how much it will cost them to use a service to setting up their own dedicated mailer.

[RazorSharpe]

Originally Posted by venus

we are giving SMTP a try while our new server is being built, they seem really good with the small amount we have sent through already, but we mail weekly, and the cost would be to high for the amount of emails we send out a month. For us, using our own dedicated mail server is the way to go, been doing it for about 15 yrs that way.

basically anyone wanting to mail needs to compare how much it will cost them to use a service to setting up their own dedicated mailer.

You may be missing a trick using Amazon SES. You can't beat 10 cents per thousand emails and unlimited scale.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by venus

For us, using our own dedicated mail server is the way to go, been doing it for about 15 yrs that way.

basically anyone wanting to mail needs to compare how much it will cost them to use a service to setting up their own dedicated mailer.

You are exactly right. It's simple math.

If you're mailing more frequently that a couple of times per month, or you have a decent sized list, an ESP is not good for anything beyond your open/clicker data, assuming it's a VERY CLEAN and SMALL file. If you have a fairly large file of data, even if it's an o/c file, and you need to send out more than once or twice a month, you need to look at your own hosted solution. It's as simple as that.

[cwd]

Originally Posted by Mickey_

Have a chat with GammaCash, see if their solution could work as a win-win.

[mikke]

hey Paul,

i think, i could help you out with your problem.. hit me up on icq

[wehateporn]

The OTCams email come in fine, but the Only Tease Daily Email heads into Spam

[venus]

I signed up for amazon ses, it said I could only send out 200 emails in a 24 hour period...that's about worthless

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe

You may be missing a trick using Amazon SES. You can't beat 10 cents per thousand emails and unlimited scale.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by venus

I signed up for amazon ses, it said I could only send out 200 emails in a 24 hour period...that's about worthless

[dicknipples]

Originally Posted by venus

I signed up for amazon ses, it said I could only send out 200 emails in a 24 hour period...that's about worthless

It's called building trust. Amazon isn't gonna let you just sign up and then start sending 500k emails every 24 hours.

[venus]

smtp.com did...

Originally Posted by Bowser Koopa

It's called building trust. Amazon isn't gonna let you just sign up and then start sending 500k emails every 24 hours.

[dicknipples]

Originally Posted by venus

smtp.com did...

Amazon isn't SMTP.com.

[Ferus]

Set up your own server, and configure the SPF record correctly, and you end up saving a lot of money.

Problem with most hosted solutions is tha risk of one of their other customers getting one of their outgoing smarthosts blacklisted.

[RazorSharpe]

Originally Posted by venus

I signed up for amazon ses, it said I could only send out 200 emails in a 24 hour period...that's about worthless

You need to click the link to take yourself out of their test mode. It's instantaneous.

[RazorSharpe]

Originally Posted by Ferus

Set up your own server, and configure the SPF record correctly, and you end up saving a lot of money.

Problem with most hosted solutions is tha risk of one of their other customers getting one of their outgoing smarthosts blacklisted.

If you're sending any sort of volume you're on a dedicated IP so I'm not sure that applies here.

[dillonaire]

Check https://messagebus.com/

You will thank me later.

[Ferus]

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe

If you're sending any sort of volume you're on a dedicated IP so I'm not sure that applies here.

Sure as hell depends on what hosted solution/service you use. Most places the FQDN you provide for reverse lookup, resolves to an IP shared with a lot of other customers.

If you want total control, set up your own box

[venus]

ya think?

Originally Posted by Bowser Koopa

Amazon isn't SMTP.com.

[RazorSharpe]

Originally Posted by Ferus

Sure as hell depends on what hosted solution/service you use. Most places the FQDN you provide for reverse lookup, resolves to an IP shared with a lot of other customers.

If you want total control, set up your own box

Of course it depends on the service you use, no one suggested using a mickey mouse operation. Saying the best way forward is to use a self hosted solution is totally incorrect and in some cases, very short sighted.

We use to host our own using mailer using Interspire and found the cost prohibitive the larger we grew (in terms of our lists). I'm not just talking money here; I'm talking maintenance, architecture and knowledge too. These have serious impacts and these are the areas where you will see benefits when using a service.

Some people will say build your own mailing application. This isn't as simple as it sounds. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes in an application of this nature. So why then re-invent the wheel when there are very capable and tested applications that do almost all of the work for you, like Interspire and OemPro (maybe sendy but I haven't tested this yet).

Similarly, using a service to actually deliver the mail (like SMTP and Amazon SES) have major advantages. You are putting the expertise of people a lot smarter than you to work for you (this is a general you). Yes, some services are extortionate and yes, some services are less than "fit for purpose"but that's where you need to do some research and figure out what is best for you economically and technologically.

Most people wouldn't host their main money site in their garage, and most regular hosts aren't capable of setting you up with a mass mailing solution that covers all the bases for a best practise mailer. This is precisely why you have services.

I'm no mailing guru and I don't claim to know it all but what I do know is that handling the actual MTA isn't for everyone and that it isn't always economically or technologically sound to do it. I know that in my specific case, it made more sense to outsource this to a service (SMTP.com) that knew what they were doing. I only recently discovered Amazon SES and have run a few tests. It works quite well and at $0.10 / 1000 emails, it is a steal. This means more money in my pocket and less hassle too. I don't have to worry about hardware, I don't have to worry about scale, I just have to make sure I handle bounces, unsubscribes, feedback loops, etc. Basically everything I would do if I hosted it myself ...

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe

Some people will say build your own mailing application.

I do not know of many people who would say that (i.e. build your own), when there are so many out of the box solutions available on the open market in regards to an MTA. It comes down to what you want to spend to license or buy them among other things. Each MTA has different bells and whistles, so you pick what best fits your needs and budget.

If you're doing a small scale list or newsletter a few times a month, an ESP (like Amazon) will be a dandy for you.

If you have decent sized lists, older lists that you need to clean up, or you plan to send more than a few times a month, you're going to need to look at other more cost effective options. I can tell you even at .10ct, if you're sending daily or even a couple of times a week on a decent sized list it will cost you considerably more than your own hosted solution.

Lastly, if you're mailing adult, you might want to bone up on the laws, especially for Michigan and Utah to make sure you're not mailing shit to minors. Following CAN-SPAM, especially in regard to adult mailing, is key to keep you out of hot water.

[RazorSharpe]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

I do not know of many people who would say that (i.e. build your own), when there are so many out of the box solutions available on the open market in regards to an MTA. It comes down to what you want to spend to license or buy them among other things. Each MTA has different bells and whistles, so you pick what best fits your needs and budget.

If you're doing a small scale list or newsletter a few times a month, an ESP (like Amazon) will be a dandy for you.

If you have decent sized lists, older lists that you need to clean up, or you plan to send more than a few times a month, you're going to need to look at other more cost effective options. I can tell you even at .10ct, if you're sending daily or even a couple of times a week on a decent sized list it will cost you considerably more than your own hosted solution.

Lastly, if you're mailing adult, you might want to bone up on the laws, especially for Michigan and Utah to make sure you're not mailing shit to minors. Following CAN-SPAM, especially in regard to adult mailing, is key to keep you out of hot water.

By application I was talking about the web or desktop based software you use to create the mailing, manage your lists, and track stats. I didn't mean develop your own MTA; an MTA isn't an app. They are two different beasts.

I've already stated that "for me" outsourcing to a place like SES is economical, it may not be for everyone. However, I don't know many pay sites who will send out more than 2-3 million emails a month. This would work out to $200-300 using SES. For me this is totally worth it. I would pay more to purchase my own hardware, house it, get it loadbalanced. A self hosted setup may be cheaper for you where you host.

You're making assumptions that people don't know they have to be compliant. Being compliant has nothing to do with whether you send using a service or send via your in-house setup.

At the end of the day, I'm not saying your way is wrong, I'm just stating that going the route of a service could, for some people, be a better option.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe

Of course it depends on the service you use, no one suggested using a mickey mouse operation. Saying the best way forward is to use a self hosted solution is totally incorrect and in some cases, very short sighted.

We use to host our own using mailer using Interspire and found the cost prohibitive the larger we grew (in terms of our lists). I'm not just talking money here; I'm talking maintenance, architecture and knowledge too. These have serious impacts and these are the areas where you will see benefits when using a service.

Some people will say build your own mailing application. This isn't as simple as it sounds. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes in an application of this nature. So why then re-invent the wheel when there are very capable and tested applications that do almost all of the work for you, like Interspire and OemPro (maybe sendy but I haven't tested this yet).

Similarly, using a service to actually deliver the mail (like SMTP and Amazon SES) have major advantages. You are putting the expertise of people a lot smarter than you to work for you (this is a general you). Yes, some services are extortionate and yes, some services are less than "fit for purpose"but that's where you need to do some research and figure out what is best for you economically and technologically.

Most people wouldn't host their main money site in their garage, and most regular hosts aren't capable of setting you up with a mass mailing solution that covers all the bases for a best practise mailer. This is precisely why you have services.

I'm no mailing guru and I don't claim to know it all but what I do know is that handling the actual MTA isn't for everyone and that it isn't always economically or technologically sound to do it. I know that in my specific case, it made more sense to outsource this to a service (SMTP.com) that knew what they were doing. I only recently discovered Amazon SES and have run a few tests. It works quite well and at $0.10 / 1000 emails, it is a steal. This means more money in my pocket and less hassle too. I don't have to worry about hardware, I don't have to worry about scale, I just have to make sure I handle bounces, unsubscribes, feedback loops, etc. Basically everything I would do if I hosted it myself ...

Bingo.... Anyone can buy software and set up their server and send email. However, this is like saying "All I need to do is put gas in my car to make it go". There is a lot more to emailing - DKIM and SPF, approved senders... And when you run into problems and a large ISP is blocking you, what do you do then? You can't call Microsoft or Google and ask them to unblock you...

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe

By application I was talking about the web or desktop based software you use to create the mailing, manage your lists, and track stats. I didn't mean develop your own MTA; an MTA isn't an app. They are two different beasts.

Again, this reinforces you do not know what you're talking about when it comes to an MTA and what is out there on the market. Many, not all, already offer this stuff built in. You can track your openers, clickers, unsubs, FBL's, and all of that. You can segment your lists, build your creatives, import them from ad networks via their API's and so on. It all can be done within the MTA. You can even manage your ip reputation and rotations to keep the from getting BL'd in the first place if you are running clean lists.

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe

I've already stated that "for me" outsourcing to a place like SES is economical, it may not be for everyone.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe

You're making assumptions that people don't know they have to be compliant. Being compliant has nothing to do with whether you send using a service or send via your in-house setup.

You're getting sidetracked with nonsense. That was not my point at all.

Bingo.... Anyone can buy software and set up their server and send email. However, this is like saying "All I need to do is put gas in my car to make it go". There is a lot more to emailing - DKIM and SPF, approved senders... And when you run into problems and a large ISP is blocking you, what do you do then? You can't call Microsoft or Google and ask them to unblock you...

It sounds like you do not know a lot about mailing making such comments. That being said, I have a lot of experience and am simply trying to help the O.P. in looking at all solutions available so they can pick what is best for them. I do not have any dog in this fight other than years of experience. I am not trying to shill a product, nor do I have any ego or machismo involved as I do not get paid to win web duels.

With that being said, unless you know about both ESP and hosting your own mail solutions, you do not know what you're talking about. However, if something like Amazon has worked out well for Razorharpe and the little newsletter he sends, that's great!! However, as I said, it is not a fit for everyone and there are other options available out there. Both hosted, and otherwise.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by gamelinkjeff

Check https://messagebus.com/

You will thank me later.

Thank you for wasting their time because they don't allow adult?

Or have they changed that policy?

[RazorSharpe]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Again, this reinforces you do not know what you're talking about when it comes to an MTA and what is out there on the market. Many, not all, already offer this stuff built in. You can track your openers, clickers, unsubs, FBL's, and all of that. You can segment your lists, build your creatives, import them from ad networks via their API's and so on. It all can be done within the MTA. You can even manage your ip reputation and rotations to keep the from getting BL'd in the first place if you are running clean lists.



Exactly.



You're getting sidetracked with nonsense. That was not my point at all.



It sounds like you do not know a lot about mailing making such comments. That being said, I have a lot of experience and am simply trying to help the O.P. in looking at all solutions available so they can pick what is best for them. I do not have any dog in this fight other than years of experience. I am not trying to shill a product, nor do I have any ego or machismo involved as I do not get paid to win web duels.

With that being said, unless you know about both ESP and hosting your own mail solutions, you do not know what you're talking about. However, if something like Amazon has worked out well for Razorharpe and the little newsletter he sends, that's great!! However, as I said, it is not a fit for everyone and there are other options available out there. Both hosted, and otherwise.

I suppose someone had to say exactly what I've been saying but make an argument of it, veiled insults included. This wouldn't be GFY if it didn't happen.

I'm your average user on GFY, my suggestions were aimed at the average user. Not more than a handful of users on this forum are sending any more than 500K to a million emails a month so it made sense (to me) to provide practical, usable, tested suggestions.

Like most average users, I'm not a mailing guru. I want software that doesn't cost me an arm and a leg and that is basically point and click to handle my mailings. Why would I want to get into the nuts and bolts of setting up and configuring some overly complicated MTA that has all the bells and whistles for my "little newsletter"?

So far in this thread I've offered verifiable suggestions that have worked for me. Is it for everyone? Maybe not. All you've done is try to insult people and try to prove that you're the dog's bollocks when it comes it mailing. What use is telling someone to do something like mailing in-house without offering any suggestions on how he/she could achieve this. So sorry, you're not "simply trying to help the O.P. in looking at all solutions available so they can pick what is best for them" ....

I'll leave you to make your inevitable reply, as far as I'm concerned this has just become a thread with a lot of dick swinging and I don't really want any part of it. I need to get back to trying to make my "little newsletter" a "little" bigger ....

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe

I need to get back to trying to make my "little newsletter" a "little" bigger ....

There ya go. A much better use of your time. Carry on.

[edgeprod]

In this thread: information beyond the scope of most people's understanding being ignored by people too inept to make use of it anyway.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by edgeprod

In this thread: information beyond the scope of most people's understanding being ignored by people too inept to make use of it anyway.

[candyflip]

Thanks for the Sendy.co link, whoever posted it. In the process of moving a few lists and getting that set up.

[RazorSharpe]

Originally Posted by candyflip

Thanks for the Sendy.co link, whoever posted it. In the process of moving a few lists and getting that set up.

You're welcome