klinton

klinton

they freely self- determinated, with a little help of "friends"


without help, who knows, maybe they wouldnt have balls to self determinate !

Manfap

Ask them what?

Sid70

See dickhead, no interference. Russia invaded and forced it, stupid bitch.

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directfiesta

my answer was to your FALSE claim :

AS for '' invasion '' , this can be debated for ever .... The population voted in favor of separation from Ukraine, then integration in Russia ....

< insert drunken slovak insult as answers HERE >

Tasty1

Look up how Holland thinks over the Ukrain, we had a referendum about it. And than the Dutch president put in an extra paragraph, after the outcome that the dutch didn't want it, that Holland won't be involved in military action. The Dutch president said that way he could sign anyway and made clear to the anti voters that Holland wouldn't join in any military action. We will soon see that is a lie. The Dutch goverment even bought jeeps for IS so they could fight against Assad.

It will be trouble in the Ukrain for the next decade. They will lose crimea to Russia in the end. (they already did).
Not that i support Russians. It is what is going to happen.

Sid70

You're full of shit. There is nothing to debate. Russia invaded Ukraine.

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Sid70

I don't understand why did you have to referendum it at all, there was nothing about Ukraine joining EU at all, association did not mean joining - it was clear to every other EU country except Holland.

You see, you are arrogant as you think if Russia invades Holland NATO will help you. Fuck NO. Germany will join Russia and reap Holland apart.

Welcome to hybrid war and world.

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klinton

nein nein nein !

Tasty1

We will see what it was all about and if the EU will make Ukrain join.

Many voted against the treaty because of the military integration with a country almost in war with Russia and because Ukrain is the most corrupt country in the eu. The Animal party was against cause than all animals like a lot of chicken would be exported to the eu while it didn't have the EU animal standards. The EU found that out two months ago, the animal party said it on forhand. And we know the political leaders have a big cut in the chicken industry, that guy became more rich now he dumps it in the EU. And that cost Holland already money. They produce in Ukrain. Bring it some days to Holland, and sell it in the EU. And most in Holland doesn't want more poor EU countries, so even the suggestion that the agreement it is a start to join the eu, dutch people voted against it. Just like turkye that has an agreement while hardly any european want them in the EU. Most see that as a mistake that keeps going on.

That is how most people think and why there was a referendum. That was ignored mostly. Now we see the chicken problem, the Russian / Ukrain tension is used for political goals to get Europe and the USA involved. And in the end Ukrain will be divided in 1,2,3 pieces or in ruins. The Russia standof is the best situation for this moment. At least, i think. So the provoking on all sides will keep going on for some time. I hope without a lot of deaths. And than maybe in a few years Ukrain makes an Agreement with Russia.

Do you think i would wait for NATO to help Holland when Russia invades Holland? By that time i am long gone and living on some beach. Like i am doing now. I don't live to get into wars. And certainly not for some dumb political leaders with their own agenda.

ilnjscb

So, we see a good slice of life here. Ancient arguments, name calling, bullshit. Meaning this is going to be an action that results in belligerence on a global scale.

klinton

??????
so this movie wasnt based on facts ???


such a dissapointment ! I thought that the Dutch resistance in ww2 was "as strong" as French and Czech ! such a dissapointment !

VRPdommy

Not to worry. They claim some sort of justification with those elections, but 60% of those voting were the troupes sent in to invade. They were not wearing uniforms but plain clothes.
Not many really noticed though since most in Crimea speak Russian to start with.
It was well known even the day of the election, The population suddenly doubled. But the plain clothed troupes had been there for months as 'freedom fighters'.

It's now time to up the ante on the play. Take off the velvet gloves before they make larger moves.
And you all should know there will be larger moves if we do nothing.

Tasty1

Soldaat van Oranje, Orange Soldier, the most famous person in the Dutch resistance.
After the war he went to live in Canada. And he was angry cause after the war nothing changed politicaly and people that where wrong or didn't resist got the best jobs again.

The state of the military is bad in Holland. Just like before WW2. Dutch soldiers even haven't got a qualified shooting range. They had to close the last one cause it was unsafe (thin wooden fencesinstead of concrete) and a soldier got killed. And that is when they have ammunition, most of the time they have to shout Pang Pang (not kidding, a minister laughed about it cause he found that funny, while he sends troop to wars). A mortar exploded and killed 2 dutch soldiers cause the army used old second hand ones, they had to buy quickly cause they where run out. I was in military 9 months and realy, those people are so dump and stupid. Not capable of thinking themselves. People that in real life won't be able to have a good career.

So, i won't be fighting. Shouting pang-pang to some planes or cruise missile isn't smart. And why fight, they want 1 big Europe, and Russia is Europe. Than they have what they want. I was against the Ukrain treaty just for that. And if there will be a war, i would buy my own weapons, easier and better.

My brother was in Srebrenica when the enclave went down. He was in the bunker with Karremans (that guy on the picture). He had to sent the messages from Karremans to drop bombs on/near their own positions. but the France and other backed of. Another reason for me never to count on an EU army or NATO. He could tell weeks before what was happening cause he could make phone calls... my mother could hear the bombs falling when he called. but the politicians didn't know…. they say.. And that politician that laughed about soldiers having to shout pang-pang. That political party insisted that Holland would only go to Srebrenica with minor weapons, cause it was a peace mission.... the last 2 months they even hadn't gasoline or much food. And nobody thought about helping them. Children who where begging at the gates for food and they gave it to them… where was NATO? Where was EU?

So that is my advice like a said several years before. Leave, and come back in a few years. Or try making a good economy in the part of the Ukrain that is still Ukrain. It is already better i heard, know people that go on holiday there.

celandina

Why they claim that beside the majority vote, they also claim an ancestral right to self-determination.

klinton

You know, sometimes it's all about being less pragmatic, less calculated and more brave and emotiuonal. Vietnamese had inferior arms to USA, yet they kicked US out of their country....(and brought communism at the same time...).
Poles in 1939 were fucked by Nazis, later Soviets, betrayed by their western "allies" like France especially, yet they built their own whole Underground Country with its own structures (like schools for example - Polish people were not meant to have any education greater than first 4 classes, according to Nazi doctrine), with the biggest partisans army in ww2 (right after soviets) and were HUGE pain in the ass for the Germans in ww2...
Poster like this was simply not possible in Poland

Of course, these days, saying that Russia will invade any country is simply a lie. They are not interested in that... What for ? Better destabilize Ukraine,its closest neighbour, spread propaganda on the west and do some business everywhere...
btw. I will watch that movie Orange Soldier, has to be interesting :>

Tasty1

Brave means many times you will be canon food as we call it. I haven't paid so much taxes to should Pang Pang when Holland is in trouble. They should have invested more, but didn't cause other problems costed more. But my life is more important than shouting Pang Pang. I only have been to Holland 2 months last 8 years. And why if there is a real war, why fight in Holland while there must be enough enemies living in other countries that could be targeted more easy? I see Russians, Israelians, Ukrains, Syrian people everywhere.

Good if the people try to get back whole Ukrain. But don't let the whole world get involved. What will happen than is the same as in Syria, Ukrain will be used to settle some conflicts between other countries and they will let Ukrains die to get their goal by sending weapons to rebels in Ukrain. Like Turkye, Russia, Iran, Irak, EU all fighting in Syria against assad and eachother. Nobody cares about Syria, only about their own world wide agenda. Syria / Ukrain will just be the battle ground.

klinton

Ukraine is kind of diverse and "fresh" country, with low awareness of citizen-ship spirit. This situation was exploited and now it is like it is...Dont worry, it wont get much worse IMO.
they have a great and cheap herbal vodka, just finishing one

Sid70

Holland sucked the plane thing deep enough to shut up and do noting, homos.

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Sid70

The smartest thing you said. Did. Now get the fuck outta here.

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O MARINA

My people the funniest

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Sid70

Odessa would make a deal. With anyone. Indeed. Those are your people.

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O MARINA

edited ...

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klinton

greetings from Mama
deals are good ! you want to have constant war ?

Grapesoda

history repeates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge..._Light_Brigade

celandina

I hope that NATO will not be that stupid, but eh, the World population needs some " pruning" so the idiots may start a 3rd WW. So, from six billion back to one, may not be such a bad idea. After all the Russians are due soon for another Great Patriotic War..

Sid70

You don't understand my saying. Odessa would deal with anyone - means they will adjust even if Pootin invades.
They are the weak point.
And no, Ukraine does not want any deal of that type.

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Tasty1

That was also a reason people voted against Ukrain joining. A lot of people believe Ukrain knows more than they are saying. At least they could give a warning not to fly over there.

Sid70

I know you will suck Putin's cocks when he comes.

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Tasty1

Why would he come? Much more profit for him selling us the gas from Crimea.

Bladewire

Putin is going to cause a lot of his population to be killed. Sad

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klinton

Hey man, I watched this Soldier Orange movie and it was kind of funny. Fresh perspective on ww2 for me, yes, but this whole occupation of Holland by Germans with Nazi twist seemed more like a picnic to me. Or more like a dispute among two friends, with one of them being mad (Germans) and other trying to be reasonable with him (Dutch).
German behaviour towards Dutch had nothing in common with Germans behaviour towards Jews, Poles or Russians etc.
Also, I loved, how the "brave" dutch resistance was saying frequently "but its dangerous" lol. Such a resistance...The only brave person in this movie from Dutch people was the Queen, as it says a lot...
Its not what WW2 was about. If you want to watch what WW2 was about, watch some movie about Holocaust (many of them), occupation of Poland/ Soviet Union OR the best movie about Eastern front (and maybe the best movie about wars in general, "apocalypse now" in Russian, not for pussies). "Come and see" / "idi & smotri" is the title, and its the real shit...Especially 2nd part of it. Its on youtube, but i wont post it here, since its very brutal (and honest).

Manfap

Nope still dont get it.. explain, in the case of Scotland, what exactly you are trying to say.

Tasty1

The Orange Soldier, (Soldaat van Oranje) is another movie, is much older. After the war the writer write a book about the students he went to university with and what happened to them during the war. He went with a small ship to England and returned to fight with the resistance. The group students also had friends who supported the Nazis. I have read some about politics after WW II, the people responsible or helping the nazis got the best positions again in politics .. they hoped for a new period, but that only happened after the 60's.

The Orange Soldier said after the war, "suddenly everyone was in the resistance during WW II, while it was a small group". Look at Ukrain, there also is a big group in favour of Russia. These people also won't resist and help Russia. In Srebrenica former neighbours slaughtered each other.

If there is a war needed between European countries to get Crimea back, it will not be worth it. And most in Crimea support Russians. I for sure wouldn't start fighting. I learned from our Queen that it is saver to stay away.

I haven't heard much about the war from my grandparents, don't talk about it. They lived on the farmer site of Holland and i bet they where not hungry. I only know family gave shelter to a familiy of jews. The father and mother got killed 20 years later in the first terror attack in Holland when people from a former colony hijacked a train in Holland.

Recently i saw a dutch tv serie about one of the richest dutch people after WW II Pieter Menten. Till in 1976 a Dutch journalist exposed where the money came from. Unbelievable how many people helped Pieter Menten and didn't help to get the paintings he collected to WW II back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter_Menten

Another reason not to get into a war, big change a big % of the people in your land doesn't care or support the enemy. And why should i risk my life for the EU when it goes wrong in Crimea. So i can watch on TV how Merkel makes a deal with Russia for more gas to make more money so Russia can buy weapons to fight us?
I am not falling for that one.

celandina

Off and on the Scotts want an idependence from the Crown, if they ever vote over 50 % then they get it. Why not the Crimean ( Bask, Northern Irish, etc.) populations. Cannot make it any clearer

Sid70

The ways are different, don't you understand?

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Sid70

We, in Ukraine, asked ourself the same silly question, why would a friendly country ( more or less ) invade Ukraine.

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klinton

maybe he stopped consider you as "friends" when you kicked out the Victor from the East :PPP in 2014
and basically wanted to cut off economical and (soon, expected) military ties with RUS and choose another partners...

klinton

"In 1951 the Dutch government refused a Polish request for Menten's extradition. "
.....

Tasty1

I see there is a movie made out of it for international audience.
https://www.jweekly.com/2017/02/24/m...-war-criminal/

klinton

well, this person should be hanged/executed in 1945 or 1946, thats all. He personally robbed and helped to kill 1000s of people in Poland during ww2.

just a punk

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Sarn

better link
https://coub.com/view/10623z

Tasty1

In a 'neutral' newspaper in Holland I now read the EU is saying the same as mentioned here. After Verhofstadt and Timmerfrans made false promises they couldn't keep, the EU don't care about Ukrain. And they say it is just made op by Porosjenko because he wants to be elected but looks like he wil lose cause people want peace. Now France and Germany start talks with Russia. Probably about the Nordstream II pipeline that seems to be supported now by the EU.

celandina

Indeed in Ireland any "way" is driven on the left.

celandina

Because you kiss ass of the EU " apparatchicks" instead sticking with your historical ally...Dumb say I.

Manfap

For 200 years they couldn't have a vote.

The Northern Irish did actually have a vote in 1973.

The Basques have never existed as their own country, they have always been part of Spain, and it's part of the Spanish constitution that they voted for in the 70's that says they cant have a vote.

Sid70

This is GFY level of logic. At some point ass kissing is better than cock sucking. Dude, you don't understand a thing.

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Sid70

I lived in Ukraine for too long.

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Sid70

They just understood Ukraine was not going to obey and do as they please. Simple. Problem is Maidan was taken over by wrong elites.

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