Originally Posted by Robbie

Congress basically abdicating their power by creating the War Powers Act.

Only Congress is supposed to be able to declare war and wage war via the Constitution...BUT, they can also enact laws to give the President that ability.

That's why we've had so many fucking wars without actually declaring war ever since WW2.

Hell, even AFTER Pearl Harbor...FDR had to wait until Congress declared war (which they swiftly did) before he could send in the troops in WW2.

These days? Johnson sent in troops to fight the Vietnam War, Reagan sent troops pretty much to any little country he wanted to put in line, Bush Sr. fought the Gulf War, Clinton lobbed missiles at the Serbian conflict and the Iraqi's, Bush Jr. invaded Afghanistan AND Iraq, Obama used drone warfare to slaughter thousands.
And then Trump blew the hell up out of Syria while eating chocolate cake with the Chinese leader.

Whether you agree or disagree with any of those actions is irrelevant. CONGRESS is the problem here.

They wrote law to give away their own powers to the Executive Branch.

They need to repeal that shit and take responsibility again.
Quite simply they don't want to have to make ANY big decisions that could hurt them politically so they have been giving power to the Executive Branch for decades.

Originally Posted by Robbie

Congress basically abdicating their power by creating the War Powers Act.

Only Congress is supposed to be able to declare war and wage war via the Constitution...BUT, they can also enact laws to give the President that ability.

That's why we've had so many fucking wars without actually declaring war ever since WW2.

Hell, even AFTER Pearl Harbor...FDR had to wait until Congress declared war (which they swiftly did) before he could send in the troops in WW2.

These days? Johnson sent in troops to fight the Vietnam War, Reagan sent troops pretty much to any little country he wanted to put in line, Bush Sr. fought the Gulf War, Clinton lobbed missiles at the Serbian conflict and the Iraqi's, Bush Jr. invaded Afghanistan AND Iraq, Obama used drone warfare to slaughter thousands.
And then Trump blew the hell up out of Syria while eating chocolate cake with the Chinese leader.

Whether you agree or disagree with any of those actions is irrelevant. CONGRESS is the problem here.

They wrote law to give away their own powers to the Executive Branch.

They need to repeal that shit and take responsibility again.
Quite simply they don't want to have to make ANY big decisions that could hurt them politically so they have been giving power to the Executive Branch for decades.

Originally Posted by VRPdommy

To me... they are both at fault

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Trump owns Trump's decisions & actions, nobody else.

Trump is at fault for starting war with Iran, nobody else.

Trump is at fault for starting the tariff war, nobody else.

Originally Posted by VRPdommy

To me... they are both at fault

They way I see it, unless more politically convenient, they will spend the summer gearing up putting assets in place while they use bad data to convince us of why we are taking the actions, but the target date for action would be sometime in Nov/December.
Shorter daylight give us a tech advantage and cooler weather help the equipment.

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Trump supporters said Trump was pulling out of all wars and that they are anti war.

Now Trump is sending ships to Iran , to start a war for no reason.

Trump supporters don't condem Trump starting a war with Iran. Why?

Originally Posted by VRPdommy

To me... they are both at fault

They way I see it, unless more politically convenient, they will spend the summer gearing up putting assets in place while they use bad data to convince us of why we are taking the actions, but the target date for action would be sometime in Nov/December.
Shorter daylight give us a tech advantage and cooler weather help the equipment.

Originally Posted by VRPdommy

But...
Congress has given POTUS the power to use the military for (i think it is) 90/120 days
then he must come back and ask for (and be granted) more time or bring it back.

That is enough time to fully get us into a war that has no end.
How do you stop what is started... It's not that easy. It is easier to prevent it in the first place.

The senate can reign this in before it starts. Nobody likes to tie the hands of POTUS but it is clear this time it needs to have some limitations even if they are not made public which would be advisable. Let those Senators speak for war publicly if they want it.

Since when has the right in the senate not been surprised just how far donald will go.

We are being hand feed data to make this acceptable in the public eyes that it almost reminds me of Iraq. And it has only just started.

Originally Posted by VRPdommy

But this can be prevented.

It's like watching a good veteran cop stand there and watch as a rookie starts mowing down people with a ak47

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Trump tweeted in 2011 and 2012 that Obama would start a war with Iran because his polls were down so that he'd be re-elected.

That's where Trump's mind is at; his polls are down the tariff war is wearing on people and he wants to get his poles up to be re-elected.

Trump doesn't realize that the majority of Americans know that he's a liar and he's not a good leader so going to war will make the vast majority of people very nervous with Trump as president

Originally Posted by Idigmygirls

Also, the war will send gas prices skyrocketing (500%+ up). The result will be massive inflation across the board (everything needs to be shipped and delivered... oil prices largely determine the cost of goods).

Inflation means higher interest rates, which tanks the stock market... but that's a digression.

The economy blowing up will cost Trump the election

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Americans will gobble it up ... just like Iraq ...

And if you speak against it, you will be labelled a terrorist , a muslim , an american-hater ... and so on ....

But this war, the USA will be all alone , by itself ... America First...

Dumb Americans ...

Originally Posted by crockett

Yes I remember well all of us who spoke out aginst the Iraq war and that the info was not legit were told we hate MERICA. The Robbies, the Vendildo, the Baddogs were these people who said this..

Now 10 years later when the war is unpopular they all claim, well I never really supported it anyway...

Originally Posted by Robbie

1. "Donald" hasn't went too "far" on war at all. Not yet anyway.

2. I believe 100% that Congress should repeal the War Powers and any other acts that they themselves passed and take responsibility for declaring war as the Constitution empowers them to do it.

3. They won't.
Since they don't have term limits, House members and Senators are too scared to make any REAL decisions that might hurt them politically. They crave power for their lifetimes.
So they have handed off power to the Executive Branch.

It's total bullshit.
Spineless politician/bureaucrats.

Originally Posted by Idigmygirls

I personally predict that this war's build up will not go along those lines. I believe we will first see a serious "incident" that will be bewildering, because it will be exactly counterproductive for Iran, but in any event, some tanker will be sunk (or pipeline exploded in Saudi Arabia, or something similar).

The USA will then take almost immediate "retaliatory" action (for their false flag attack) and fire ~200 Patriot missiles at Iranian infrastructure (designed to cripple Iran's ability to fuel its economy, as the oil blockade has not been working - with China, Iraq, India... still accepting oil).

The missile strikes will be responded to with a limited but serious counter attack - probably targeting oil infrastructure and shipping vehicles, but also maybe (or maybe alternatively) at the actual US fleet that shot the missiles.

From there, the war progresses in an unpredictable way. USA could start to stage massive troops with a build-up (justified by Iran's "aggression"); however, such a build up would be vulnerable to preemptive attack. Alternatively, the USA could (more likely would) begin a massive arial campaign while moving strategic forces into the region. All bets are off at that point.

Originally Posted by Robbie

I've never quite understood HOW the U.S. can tell other countries what they can and can't do.

It's not like it's a secret on how to make a nuke. Every country has scientists and they can all do it.

And to have the ONE country that actually USED an Atomic Bomb on men, women, and children trying to tell other countries that they aren't allowed to have them?

Originally Posted by Robbie

I've never quite understood HOW the U.S. can tell other countries what they can and can't do.

It's not like it's a secret on how to make a nuke. Every country has scientists and they can all do it.

And to have the ONE country that actually USED an Atomic Bomb on men, women, and children trying to tell other countries that they aren't allowed to have them?

Originally Posted by crucifissio

200.000 serbs ethnically cleansed by croats in 1 day = no problem but 8000 in srebrenica is genocide... fuck off LOL

Originally Posted by klinton

where ? which 200 K Serbs ? in 1940-1945 ?

Srebrenica, Sarajevo and few other are well known facts...Now please post some facts (from wikipedia, if you could), about "ethnic killing" of 200 k Serbs in 90s Yugoslav wars.

Originally Posted by VRPdommy

Well, the trick on Iran is that they signed a nuke non-proliferation treaty back when the Shaw ruled. And they had agreed to continue obligations of international law on the overthrow.

But yes, generally, we have no right. So they make and feed a story-line to get what they want.

Sometimes I do think most borders would remain secure if everyone had nukes.
But, we all fear the nut job eager to push that button.
And don't think the government does not help that fear along.

Originally Posted by kane

This is my fear. I worry that countries run by extremist would use that technology to either attack another country, or, more likely, get it into the hands of terrorist groups that would use it in some major city.

Originally Posted by kane

This is my fear. I worry that countries run by extremist would use that technology to either attack another country, or, more likely, get it into the hands of terrorist groups that would use it in some major city.

Originally Posted by crucifissio

so you are worried other countries will do a "USA"?...yes...this fear is justified and it is only a matter of time before we all "USA" up

we are all accepting american culture...we will start with the nukes

Originally Posted by kane

No, not at all.

The US has dropped nukes and that is terrible, but we did it against a country we were actively at war with and we warned them beforehand. That is not dismissing it, just making statements for the record. I am worried that a country run by religious fanatics that think if they kill non-Muslims they will be rewarded with a harem of virgins in the afterlife will make a nuke, put it on a ship, sail it into a major US port and detonate it.

Originally Posted by Idigmygirls

I wrote an essay in the lead up to the Iraq war in which I made the case that the war had already been won. Saddam had allowed UN weapon's inspectors into the country, and I said that the UN should send 5,000 such "inspectors" in. No shots fired, just have UN inspectors crawl all over the country, and Iraq would have been incapable of threatening anyone with WMD.

But of course, the war wasn't at all about WMD, and we all know what went down...

Originally Posted by Robbie

Wow, crockett claiming that I said anything to him about the war in Iraq.

Crockett...can you please find the posts where I told you that you hated "Merica" over the Iraq war?
No?

That's because you are human garbage and spend your homeless days in your van parked near wi-fi to sit on what used to be an adult business board and live out your delusions.

In other words: You're a liar...and fuck you.

Originally Posted by Robbie

That's because you are human garbage and spend your homeless days in your van parked near wi-fi to sit on what used to be an adult business board and live out your delusions.

In other words: You're a liar...and fuck you.

Originally Posted by VRPdommy

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/whi...n-war-n1007281

"
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump may not need Congress to go to war with Iran.

That's the case his lieutenants have been quietly building as tensions between the two nations have escalated.

The key elements involve drawing links between al Qaeda and Iran and casting Iran as a terrorist threat to the U.S. — which is exactly what administration officials have been doing in recent weeks.

That could give Trump the justification he needs to fight Iran under the still-in-effect 2001 use-of-force resolution without congressional approval.
"

It is time for the senate to act !

Originally Posted by kane

No, not at all.

The US has dropped nukes and that is terrible, but we did it against a country we were actively at war with and we warned them beforehand. That is not dismissing it, just making statements for the record. I am worried that a country run by religious fanatics that think if they kill non-Muslims they will be rewarded with a harem of virgins in the afterlife will make a nuke, put it on a ship, sail it into a major US port and detonate it.

Originally Posted by crucifissio

Well yes that is what you get when you push countries in to war...the moderates get silenced by your bombs and the nutjobs come to power...many people in the middle east know nothing but war and sanctions from the west....you can hardly blame them for being forced to nuke up considering that the USA will never leave them alone...

Originally Posted by Robbie

No surprise there. President's have put us in several wars since WW2 without Congress declaring war.

I mean it's NICE for the Senate to give their "blessing", but with the laws that Congress itself passed handing over a ton of their responsibilities to the Executive Branch...no President has needed Congress to send troops in anywhere in decades.

It's way too late to do anything about the tensions in Iran. BUT...the House and Senate should immediately repeal the laws that they passed giving this power to the Executive Branch.

We basically have the House and Senate full of lifetime power-hungry bureaucrats who don't want to do ANYTHING. Instead of looking at decisions based on what's good for the country, they are too busy weighing each vote to determine if it's good for their careers.

Originally Posted by crockett

If we didn't drop the 1st Nukes in Japan they would have been dropped somewhere by someone..

The simple fact is the firebombing of Japan did far more death and destruction than the 2 nukes did. Fire bombing/ carpet bombing cities ect was standard practice by all militaries during WW2.

The only reason Nukes are made a big deal is because it was the 1st time and it only took 1 airplane where as previously the same damage could be done, but only with many bombers and bombs..


US dropping Nukes is what made all civilized nations agree to not bomb civilians anymore. With out nukes everyone would still do what Assad and Russia did to Syria or what Saudis are doing in Yemen or what Israel does to Palestine.

If you notice, since WW2 no nation that took part in WW2 has directly targeted civilians as a war tactic except Russia.. Yes there is always some civilan deaths and buildings hit, but no one but Russia still actively targets civilians..

Israel & the Saudis didn't sign any treaties.. Russia did but they violate it..

Originally Posted by crockett

US dropping Nukes is what made all civilized nations agree to not bomb civilians anymore. With out nukes everyone would still do what Assad and Russia did to Syria or what Saudis are doing in Yemen or what Israel does to Palestine.

If you notice, since WW2 no nation that took part in WW2 has directly targeted civilians as a war tactic except Russia.. Yes there is always some civilan deaths and buildings hit, but no one but Russia still actively targets civilians..

Israel & the Saudis didn't sign any treaties.. Russia did but they violate it..

Originally Posted by kane

The Middle East has known nothing but violence and unrest since the beginning of recorded history. Those who live their need to get their shit together before they start pointing fingers.

Yes, our presence there and our influence hasn't helped, but the problems there existed long before we ever arrived.

Originally Posted by kane

For starters, most of them are part of a religion that seems like it is a couple hundred years behind the rest of the developed world. You can't expect to rationalize with fanatics. It just doesn't work that way.

Originally Posted by kane

If the US completely pulled out of the Middle East and even abandoned our support of Israel, those Middle Eastern countries would just go back to hating and fighting each other.

Originally Posted by crockett

If you notice, since WW2 no nation that took part in WW2 has directly targeted civilians as a war tactic except Russia.. Yes there is always some civilan deaths and buildings hit, but no one but Russia still actively targets civilians..
.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I'm currently watching The Vietnam War and it's fascinating.

It's revealing how Americans were sent to die to save political ideals, egos and careers. It also reveals how bad the whole thing was created, led and carried out. How mistakes were made by politicians right down to the men on the ground.

Jumping forward 50 years I see the same mistakes made by other politicians, on both sides of the political divide.

Originally Posted by crockett

At least 4 tankers were hit with explosives yesterday while anchored near a port in United Arab Emirates. Looking at the pictures the damage was not enough to sink any of the ships and quite honestly was not enough damage to be a state sponsored hit..

It's obvious low end terrorist cell as Iran or any serious threat could have done much more damage.. That didn't stop Trump from blaming Iran before the smoke settled...


Trump is pounding the war drums trying to do anything for a distraction from him being outted as a business failure and a traitor...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-ne...es-2019-05-14/


Best pictures and video so far are on aljazeera

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/...105033539.html

Originally Posted by crucifissio

sure you do the USA targets exclusively civilians...when you gangster mother fuckers invade, civilians get force drafted...the armies of the countries defending themselves against invader mother fuckers consist exclusively of civilians...the fact that they put on a uniform to keep gangsters away, does not legitimize their murder in any way...any country would do the same, especially the USA

conclusion: the USA targets exclusively civilians...1 million dead just in iraq...all civilians...