stickyfingerz

Well I certainly agree it shouldnt be a federal issue. It should be regulated by the states as the constitution guides.

jonesy

america home of the fre an ooops...

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Probono

Government is not only the federal government. It is a personal issue period.

stickyfingerz

Some daddy police? Yes they already do this. Are you daft? You dont think they inforce any fathers to pay for the Children they bore? Srsly try to keep up here.

Pornwolf

This is a touchy subject. Now you see why there's still philosophical a division between Dems and Republicans.

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Probono

This has nothing to do with Republicans and Democrats it is a matter of law being used to enforce a religious view of when life begins. Different religions have different concepts of the beginning of life.

If you wish to take it to an extreme you commit a crime masterbating since every sperm is a potential child. This is nonsense, a woman should have control of her own body.

Wiggles

its the scopes monkey trial precursor!

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Drake

I don't agree with the court decision but make no mistake, abortion is killing of innocent life. That's not a religious view at all.

egg does not equal human
sperm does not equal human

but

egg + sperm does equal human

stickyfingerz

The big issue I guess here is that some people dont see a child as a child until it pops its head out of a vagina. Babies kick and you can feel them kick well before 20 weeks.

stickyfingerz

Dumbest angle ever is saying masturbating is abortion. really dumb.

Peacemaker

no, you got attacked by japan, which were in alliance with germany. so therefore, the USA where in war with germany too.

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Bill8

Who "enforces" fathers to pay for the unwanted children they create because they can't keep their dick in their pants?

She has to sue him, so add the cost and further humiliation of a lawsuit to the torture of being treated like an animal and forced to give birth to a baby she doesn't want and has to give up for adoption.

How many years after the woman is forced to go thru 9 months of torture and abuse does she get paid back?

And, so, you're saying that it's totally fair that all an impregnater has to do is pay a few thousand dollars to his victim 3 to 5 years after the fact, while she has to go thru a living hell, and after that give up her newborn baby to strangers?

Sounds like a great deal for the man.

jayeff

If you actually believe that egg + sperm = human, then aren't you condoning murder by not supporting an anti-abortion law?

I'm also curious how you equate a protozoan with human life, yet claim that is not a religious view? And if your point is that a fertilized egg is the beginning of human life, why do you draw an arbitrary line there? Why isn't the line a while later when distinctly human characteristics begin to emerge? Why not before fertilization when both partners to the sex act are already impelled by genes and hormones to reproduce? Isn't their nature the real source of life?

And if so, do you have a problem with placing a barrier between sperm and egg so that sex becomes recreation instead of solely a means to create new life? Vasectomies? Hysterectomies? More ways to deny life.

So to clarify. Is your concern the denial of life or the termination of life? And if you perceive abortion at any stage as the termination of life, again, how can you oppose any anti-abortion law without being an accomplice to murder?

Bill8

You are evading the question.

You've alreeady said that women who spread their legs have to be held responsible for their actions, and you proposed that responsibility should be to 'have to' bear the child and give it up for adoption.

What is the _equivalent_ responsibility for the man who couldn't keep his dick in his pants?

You seem to be saying their only responsibility should be that they are somehow enforced to pay for the children they father.

Is that your position? That the fathers responsibility is limited to the costs involved?

stickyfingerz

So you agree we were never attacked by Germany right? Japan did not attack us because of Germany. You might wanna read up on that. Ill give you a hint China and a trade embargo. Does it make sense to you that Hitler would become an allie with someone he wanted to exterminate?

Oh and Bin Laden declared war on us during the Clinton administration.

GotGauge

How about when there is a heart beat, think that is a good place to draw a line...

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Peacemaker

i never said that germany attacked the USA, first.. that was just some background informations..

but what about bin laden now? bin laden and iraq, there is no connection..

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stickyfingerz

Are you following this thread at all? IM COMPLETLY for parental responsiblity. Im for marriage and raising the children create together as a family. Now incase you are unaware there is a little thing called child support in this country. If you are the known father and dont take responsibility for your child then a court will force you to. They then can garnish your wages if you dont take care of that responsibility. You can even do jail time. So YES there are "daddy police". I personally think there shouldnt be. I think people should be responsibile enough to take care of their own actions. Unfortunately todays society has become so bad, and life devalued so much that this doesnt happen.

stickyfingerz

Just pointing out that Bin Laden declared war yet Clinton did nothing. So why bother with Germany if they declare war? None of our business what they do, or who they hurt. Right?

Peacemaker

sorry, just to get you right, you say germany declared war on the USA?

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LedZep

A fucking bug has a heartbeat. Whats your point?

stickyfingerz

That would certainly be better than the way it is now for sure.

Normally a heartbeat can be heard at 9 weeks and even earlier. Which makes the 2 month cutoff that I stated earlier good.

stickyfingerz

Are you sure about that.

Bill8

You are still evading the question.

You want to force women to have unwanted children.

So, what punishment should the man have to suffer?

LedZep

For someone who talks a lot you sure dont know shit. Yes, bugs have a heartbeat asswipe.

Probono

I might be dumb but I am not alone in saying this is a philosophical issue.

When does life begin?

Question:
Hi, I was wondering about a bioethical issue that's really important today-
abortion. Most of the debate about abortion revolves around when life
begins, so I was wondering when most scientist's believe that life begins,
since you obviously would know more about this subject. You don't have to
give your moral beliefs or anything, but I would just like to know when you
think that life begins... Thanks! =)
Amit Srivastava

Answer 1:
This is an important topic, but even (or especially) for a scientist
you and I must realize that my "moral beliefs" will affect the kind
of answer I give.
Even the unfertilized egg and sperm are "alive" so in some sense
life begins before fertilization! The fertilized egg is certainly
alive, in that it can copy its genetic information (DNA) and it can
divide into more and more cells. The more critical question, I think,
is when that life becomes "human", and that is not a question that
science will be able to answer. Human-ness is a religious, or moral,
or philosophical question that is not likely to have a single
agreed-upon answer.
Steve J Triezenberg

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/bio99189.htm

CDSmith

People on either side of this issue will always hate the other's viewpoint. Some will hate so much they are willing to kill the others by blowing up clinics, while others get in fist fights and beat those who disagree with them to a pulp, or worse.

My view is that the ONLY answer to this question is for people to decide what is right for THEMSELVES, and keep your nose out of what someone else decides for themselves. Why? Because I know that making abortion illegal isn't going to stop it from happening. People are still going to seek out abortions and there are just too may examples and situations in this issue to cover it all.

Personally I am not for abortion, but that stance extends only so far as myself and my immediate family. I believe in set limits and rigorous counselling for those seeking abortion, but I also believe that it is not my right to tell you or anyone else what your decision is to be.

In fact, I rather detest people who feel it is their place to dictate to everyone else what they must do in an issue such as this.

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Drake

I'll make the legal distinction here. Under the law, killing is defined as lawful act of death (in other words if I kill somebody in self defense I killed rather than murdered him). Murder however is defined as unlawful killing (therefore a robber who shoots a victim murders that victim). So I suppose under extreme cases (such as incest or rape), I support lawful killing because of the political, financial, and personal ramifications involved. i won't go on at length that men and women theoretically need to take different levels of responsibility on this issue because one sex bears children after carrying it for 9 months while the other can shoot sperm and disappear. The whole issue of autonomy, equality, and financial burden of an unwanted bastard child is a difficult one but in a world where their is no such thing as pure black and white, I think exceptions are made for almost every rule and there would be instances where abortion may be the lesser of numerous evils.

Two partners in a sex act does not produce a baby so their is no argument that human life begins there just as their is no argument that mastubating is when human life begins.

We can give different names to a developing human being but it doesn't change the fact that after the sperm fertilizes the egg, that is when the process of development begins. Whether it has no arms, no brain to think, or no heart yet makes no difference because the code is already written and the process has already begun. An infant may not be able to walk, talk, or have teeth but it no less a human life that needs to be protected.

I don't see anything arbitrary about where human life begins.

I see nothing wrong with this because if the egg and sperm haven't met, their is no human life created.

See answer to your first question above.

atmclick

since when is taking care of your own business not parental responsibility? life is all about balance, no one rides for free. getting an abortion is a tradeoff, you can bet your ass that deciding to get the abortion is a fuck of a hard thing to do. and guess what? she has to live with it her entire life.

stickyfingerz

No actually not all bugs, and they have a heart, not necessarily an audible beat.

stickyfingerz

Ya its hard on the woman. The baby however has it easy being sucked down a tube, and depending on what term she is at having its little arms and legs broken, and its head gets a metal spike through it.

directfiesta

The ' Joe knows everything ' has spoken, and again showed how ignorant, uneducated, uninformed dumbass he is ( tough he thinks he is a rocket scientist ) and not even able to research one minute before making himself a fool for every one to see...

Starting in 1940, through the middle of 1942, U-Boats were very successful - they sank more ships than were built.

As I said, you are nobody, even if you have a paysite with no girls ....
Might as well say you got a gambling one with no players...

You are a LOOSER

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mrthumbs

the fact that some of you assclowns actually have children is the most disturbing part.. im very pro abortion.

stickyfingerz

Well that all may be true, though Im sure most of Canada can agree that your ASS is looser than nearly anyones.

stickyfingerz

Great why dont you go work in an abortion clinic so you can see all the cut up babies.

ThunderBalls

You definitely have a screw loose. I'm not kidding here, please do your family members a favor and seek some counseling.

mrthumbs

Exactly my point. And think about it: you have kids. Good thing in your case:
you seem to like them.

Now think of a moron like you that doesnt want a child in the first place
but has his equally tarded bitch pregnant.

PRO-ABORTION

spanky part 2

There's a really good book you should read, seriously.

Confessions of an Economic Hitman
It's been on the best seller list so long that it's now on paperback.

Maybe it is you who doesn't understand. Now what was the reason for going in there again. Bush gave us lots of options, WMD, Saddam was a bad man,bringing democracy to the middle east, so they don't get us here, what is it this week?

spanky part 2

Good lord you are thick headed. Germany attacked our allies and took over their countries. You are supposed to help your allies in a time of need. Just like the first Iraq war. Iraq attacked our ally Kuwait, and we came to their need.
The first Bush was smart enough to get the world behind us and not go it alone. Then again that was a just war, and he stopped short of taking over that country, as he should have.

This new war was started so the large corporations, i.e. Haliburton and Exxon could do as they wish there.

Tell me who is paying Haliburton to rebuild the infrastructure in Iraq. My bet is they got a loan from the world bank, or the IMF, and now they are in debt and we own that country now, because they can never pay for the dept..
They may pretend to run it, but they are in debtors prison to the good ol' US of A!

stickyfingerz

You tell me why Germany, France, and Russia were not onboard when it was voted at the U.N. Maybe if you can figure that out you will have a clue. Btw have you heard the new tapes that are out that have Saddam talking about his wmd program long after he was supposed to of been cleaned out?

stickyfingerz

Ya sure is a shame your mom didnt exercise her choice. lol My kids are wonderful. Most all kids are. Pro abortion is pro death imo.

spanky part 2

Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, he was talking shit to keep Iran from invading. BTW who helped put Saddam in power? You really need to do some more reading. Is there a library close by?

potter

So did this actually go through? The article says it was awaiting the signature of Republican Gov. Michael Rounds...

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spanky part 2

There you go, you finally said it, In YOUR opinion. It's not a law, it's your opinion. We all have them, that doesn't make yours or mine right, it's just ours.

spanky part 2

I don't think it has gone thru yet.

Now some of the pro life idiots, are saying to wait until there is maybe one more conservative judge. I'm gonna laugh my ass off if this goes thru and then gets voted down by the supreme court.

You never know. they thought SD O'conner was a conservative. The beauty of the supreme court is that once your on, you don't have to answer to anyone or play politics anymore.

Time will only tell.

mrthumbs

I used a special KGB brainmanipulation trick on him to pull that one out!!!!

stickyfingerz

I know all about it. I guess if you ever hire an employee and he starts stealing from you and threatening your family you would just let him keep his job no matter what. The enemy of your enemy is your friend.

stickyfingerz

It will be law soon. Roe v. Wade should of never been allowed in the first place. That is what all the fuss is about. Do some research. It goes against the way our government is setup, and doesnt follow the lead of the constitution. Should be left to each state to determine.

chadglni

You discredit anything you have to say with ignorant ass bullshit like this. Unfortunately most of your posts are the same crap.

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Bill8

Sounds fine to have each state decide, as long as men and women are punished equally and fairly for accidental and unwanted pregnancy.

If women are to be punished by being forced to have a baby and give it up to strangers, what do you want your state to do to punish the man who is 50% responsible for the unwanted pregnancy?

If you don't punish each sex equally, that is equivalent to saying one sex has more citizenship rights than the other.

That's the core argument in RvW, that women have the same sovereignity as men.