any muscle car people on here?

[Jon Oso]

I've posted pics of my car before...



but 2 weeks ago it went under the knife at 100K miles...

old stock LS1 and 4l60e came out...

and the new cammed LS2 and built 4l60e are almost done. a few more things to bolt up and then it's on the trailer to the dyno saturday morning to throw a tune at it and get it back on the road.

specs on the build - 30k mile LS2, massaged 243 heads, AZPS 03 cam - .621/.615" lift, 242/248 duration @ .050", 111 degree lobe separation, LS6 intake, pacesetter longtubes, ford 30# injectors, NGK TR6 plugs w/ MSD wires, edge 3600 converter, locally built 4l60e, all new mounts and bushings (as all the stock ones were fubar), 255lph pump, and is getting tuned by the best LSx tuner in the west also keeping the nitro dave's nitrous kit on it jetted at 150

Nothing really to post pictures of but if I can figure out how to fix my GL2 before saturday I'll post up videos of it on the dyno.

Hoping for around 420-430 to the wheels on the motor and closer to 600 on a baby 150 shot this time around...

Next step for the car is another nitrous kit plumbed into a fast 90, 12 bolt, and 18x12" HRE's or similar with some rubber on it.

should be fun. just excited to post up some details on the build here since I'm not advertising it locally in hopes to sucker a few people into some decent races

[smack]

nitrous?

bottles are for babies. real men get blown. ;)

[Jon Oso]

there's some response to that like

"if bottles are for babies, why are the blown guys always whining" or something like that.

honestly I'd prefer for a big single turbo or a couple medium sized twins, but on the small budget I'm on it's just not worthwhile. I don't need 600+ HP all the time, but near that at the push of a button is definitely fun.

It's my daily driver on 18" street radials (not even a drag radial) so trying to control 400+ hp all the time is going to be enough for me, having 600+ that a blower on this motor would surely give me is just way too much.


Plus much over 600 and I'm looking at 4l80e or th400 territory, and having this trans built for 2 grand opposed to 4500 for a 4l80e (to keep overdrive) or cruising at 4500rpm with a 3spd driving 50 miles round trip to work just isn't going to happen haha.

[2MuchMark]

Here's my baby:



It is 426 Horsepower, stock. I have no plans whatsoever to apply any aftermarket anything to get more power. The main reason is, adding extras to boost horsepower ads NO VALUE to the car whatsoever when it comes to re-sale time. The dealers don't give a damn what you do to your car and the price they offer you will be the same as the same car without the mods. Collectors and car enthusiasts also don't care because they prefer to by the cars with as much original components as possible. They may want to do their own mods, but each wants to do it "his way".

Anyway congrats on your car. Let's race.

[Jon Oso]

Originally Posted by **********

Here's my baby:



It is 426 Horsepower, stock. I have no plans whatsoever to apply any aftermarket anything to get more power. The main reason is, adding extras to boost horsepower ads NO VALUE to the car whatsoever when it comes to re-sale time. The dealers don't give a damn what you do to your car and the price they offer you will be the same as the same car without the mods. Collectors and car enthusiasts also don't care because they prefer to by the cars with as much original components as possible. They may want to do their own mods, but each wants to do it "his way".

Anyway congrats on your car. Let's race.

Very nice car. I wouldn't mess with it right now either... but my car is 7 years old, worth shit on trade in so it's worth WAY more on the private market with a bunch of extras, especially with the mileage.

It's weird how it works but your 426hp will probably net you a mid-bottom 12 second run on a tire, mine will probably run in the mid 11s with the same tire @ around 119 MPH. It's probably the weight difference or the aggressive nature of the cam... but I would definitely take you up on that race ;) It wouldn't be pretty.

I'd trade you cars any day though. I would much rather have a newer car over this hunk of shit haha.

[smack]

Originally Posted by Jon Oso

there's some response to that like

"if bottles are for babies, why are the blown guys always whining" or something like that.

honestly I'd prefer for a big single turbo or a couple medium sized twins, but on the small budget I'm on it's just not worthwhile. I don't need 600+ HP all the time, but near that at the push of a button is definitely fun.

It's my daily driver on 18" street radials (not even a drag radial) so trying to control 400+ hp all the time is going to be enough for me, having 600+ that a blower on this motor would surely give me is just way too much.


Plus much over 600 and I'm looking at 4l80e or th400 territory, and having this trans built for 2 grand opposed to 4500 for a 4l80e (to keep overdrive) or cruising at 4500rpm with a 3spd driving 50 miles round trip to work just isn't going to happen haha.

that's funny, i have never heard that response before.

NOS has always made me nervous the same way meth/alky injection does.

all it takes is one clogged/bad nozzle, or your bottle running dry before you think it should and KABOOM.

good luck with the build.

[Jon Oso]

I agree with you on the meth part. it's a bandaid for a shit fuel system or shit fuel. I want to hit people when they say "I made these numbers without alky/meth" well no shit retard you shouldn't need either of those if you have a decent tune or you're just making more than your motor can handle with regular gas.

I've had nitrous on every car i've owned since I was 16, it's as natural to me as starting the car up - you just need to know your limits, when to use it and who to trust tuning it.

I've had bottles go empty while racing all the time - extra fuel for a little bit isn't going to hurt anything. However having a fuel solenoid fail and stick closed or having a nitrous solenoid freeze open after a run will ruin your shit with the quickness.

The kit is on baby settings right now at 150 until I do all the safety stuff (fuel pressure regulator, window switch, etc) and have the trans built with a brake to spray 300+

or I could spend 4500 and have a turbo kit fabbed up.... but like I said above as a daily driver that's just way too much. I'd rather go to the track and click off a nine and drive home with half the horsepower than be 9 second capable all the time

[Choopa Phil]

how about brakes and suspension...? not fun to stop 450hp of slop imo or take turns in it either. Wanna race =D

[Choopa Phil]

Originally Posted by Jon Oso

I agree with you on the meth part. it's a bandaid for a shit fuel system or shit fuel. I want to hit people when they say "I made these numbers without alky/meth" well no shit retard you shouldn't need either of those if you have a decent tune or you're just making more than your motor can handle with regular gas.

I've had nitrous on every car i've owned since I was 16, it's as natural to me as starting the car up - you just need to know your limits, when to use it and who to trust tuning it.

I've had bottles go empty while racing all the time - extra fuel for a little bit isn't going to hurt anything. However having a fuel solenoid fail and stick closed or having a nitrous solenoid freeze open after a run will ruin your shit with the quickness.

The kit is on baby settings right now at 150 until I do all the safety stuff (fuel pressure regulator, window switch, etc) and have the trans built with a brake to spray 300+

or I could spend 4500 and have a turbo kit fabbed up.... but like I said above as a daily driver that's just way too much. I'd rather go to the track and click off a nine and drive home with half the horsepower than be 9 second capable all the time

just as some advice id get the saftey stuff before running a "baby shot" of 150, and baby shot is more along the lines of 35-50 IMO, and u can still blow your motor with that if your not careful, especially if you hit rev limiter without the RPM window switch. All kits can support a 300 hp jet for the most part, at least NX can, which is something you should consider. NOS is crap compared to NX in quality and customer support. If you need any help with ur build let me know ive pretty much done anything there can be done to a car import or domestic. the only thing i cant do is weld and thats because ive never had the opportunity to learn, other than that i can do it all. Also id suggest some 6/4 pot brakes, and a nice set of adjustable coilovers with swaybars. Do it right the first time or dont do it at all, thats just how i think cars are meant to be built

[Jon Oso]

it stops ;). strano BP1 brake kit slotted rotors w/ hawk hps pads, eibach pro kit springs (looks good, rides like shit)




compared to the stock shitty brake pads and rotors.



I am considering a Z06 brake upgrade or even C6 Z brakes but the cost difference to stopping power is just not there. The car stops hard and doesn't fade much on the street, so unless I start auto-xing the car or road racing it they're good enough.

[Choopa Phil]

check ebay and junk yards, i got my z32 kit for my 240sx from a yard for like 250 and got them remaned and powdercoated. sick bbk with rotors for like 650-700 with conversion lines. I cant believe that car is lowered, damn haha. It looks good im not knocking it whatsoever, but are you still running stock shocks? thats probably whats making it ride like crap if so.

[Jon Oso]

Originally Posted by DLXphil

just as some advice id get the saftey stuff before running a "baby shot" of 150, and baby shot is more along the lines of 35-50 IMO, and u can still blow your motor with that if your not careful, especially if you hit rev limiter without the RPM window switch. All kits can support a 300 hp jet for the most part, at least NX can, which is something you should consider. NOS is crap compared to NX in quality and customer support. If you need any help with ur build let me know ive pretty much done anything there can be done to a car import or domestic. the only thing i cant do is weld and thats because ive never had the opportunity to learn, other than that i can do it all. Also id suggest some 6/4 pot brakes, and a nice set of adjustable coilovers with swaybars. Do it right the first time or dont do it at all, thats just how i think cars are meant to be built

holy shit a gear head wasn't expecting to find one of you on here.

LS1 cars love nitrous. I've ran 2 stock LS1s untuned on spray and they just eat it up. I have the kit on a microswitch (not full throttle switch) so I can hit it and quit it by hand, if the car is blowing the tires off or whatever the case may be I'm not letting off the juice and the throttle and I can still pedal out of a situation.

This kit is good up to 150 the way it sits, with different jets and a larger hose from the fuel rail to the solenoid it's capable of 200. I've had 1 NOS kit and a handful of NX kits, along with a TNT F1 kit. The TNT kit hit the hardest and put up the best numbers (picked up 137 hp and 200 tq on a 150 shot) to a total of 446/509 with this car and a completely stock motor and exhaust.

Suspension wise it will stay the way it is until it gets a rear-end, then I'll decide if I still want to be able to turn or if I'm throwing drag radials and skinnies on the car and going for an all out drag set up.

I touched on the brakes a bit in my last post, 6/4 piston brakes are waaay too much. I'm just trying to stop not throw people through the windshield haha.

[Jon Oso]

I think the reason the car looks a little high is because it's on a 275/40/18 tire...

When it was on a 275/40/17 it sat lower.



when it was on the stock springs... 4x4 for sure



the shocks are stock yes, blown out stockers... looking for a set of konis

[Jon Oso]

here's a better pic of the stock rear wheel gap....



i got SO much shit for having the car sit up so high haha

[Choopa Phil]

drive her the way she is for a bit, save money on the side, take her off the road and turn it into a beast. Thats what im slowly doing with my G35, within 6 months it will be off the road getting the body redone, and pulling the engine for a complete tear down when it goes in for paint. right now its TT, running only at 6.5 psi 386 rwhp and 360tq this is on an extremely conservative tune with 93 octane, i can boost all the way upwards of 12psi which i dont really plan on doing until the bottom end is built

Edit: HOLY 4X4! haha i like it with the vette wheels u should consider putting those back on there it looks great

[BlackCrayon]

can you really call these 90s or new cameros "muscle cars"?

[Jon Oso]

Originally Posted by DLXphil

drive her the way she is for a bit, save money on the side, take her off the road and turn it into a beast. Thats what im slowly doing with my G35, within 6 months it will be off the road getting the body redone, and pulling the engine for a complete tear down when it goes in for paint. right now its TT, running only at 6.5 psi 386 rwhp and 360tq this is on an extremely conservative tune with 93 octane, i can boost all the way upwards of 12psi which i dont really plan on doing until the bottom end is built

Edit: HOLY 4X4! haha i like it with the vette wheels u should consider putting those back on there it looks great

honestly I liked the Z06 wheels I just had them on there for SOO long I was bored and it was time for a change. There are SO many Camaros in Phoenix and a lot of ZR1 wheels but very few people have them in 18s which is why I went with these (plus they were 900 brand new with tires). I really want to do a CCW or HP EVO wheel in a 19 but fawk I will never hook up. The only real option I have is a 15" drag radial or a super wide 18" wheel (like 18x12") with a drag radial on it. I would definitely snag a set of modded wheels though, say 17x4" front runners and 17x13" rears for a race wheel, there are a couple cars running bottom 9s if not high 8s on a 17" drag radial and a TON of suspension.


as far as the motor goes - I think down the road this motor is either getting a low compression make-over with a large frame turbo or a big inch (454+) LSX with a carb and a ton more nitrous. Just love the stuff.

I drove the car stock for three years, i'm sure it's going to be at least another year before I do anything else to the motor other than a set of heads or an intake manifold.

[Jon Oso]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

can you really call these 90s or new cameros "muscle cars"?

Generally the same technology they had in the 60s all the way through 2010 just a few more gadgets. Same single cam pushrod technology.

[Choopa Phil]

sorry for the dirty engine bay

[John-ACWM]

Don't own one but I love them.Take good care of your cars,guys!

[Jon Oso]

Originally Posted by DLXphil

sorry for the dirty engine bay

A lot of room for improvements and fun parts there. There was a twin turbo 4 door running around here for awhile, not sure what happened to it but it was a pretty quick car. I think there is a twin turbo built motor car putting down some impressive numbers too.

Problem with my car is that it weighs so fucking much it's hard to make them go fast 3800 pounds probably more like 4000 with my fat ass in it, full leather, t-tops, automatic, etc.

I can't even imagine how hard it is to get that thing to hook.

[Choopa Phil]

its about 3300 pounds not too bad, but its still a pretty heavy car. Im running a 20x 8.5 245/35/20 up front a 20x10 275/30/20 in the rear, but im waiting for my 19x10 and 19x11's to come those will be running a 255 up front and a 305 in the rear =]

[Vicious_B]

I think muscle car and I think of anything made in the 60's and 70's.

[Jon Oso]

a 275 is a REALLY small tire to run on a 10" wheel, a 255 is even smaller. I have a 275 on a 9" wheel fwiw. With a 11" wheel i'd definitely run a 315 or wider.

[Dollarmansteve]

Not really a true "muscle" car.. but... 5.7L and 405hp of tire shredding-ness

[Jon Oso]

yellow is faster. dig the Z06

[Dollarmansteve]

Originally Posted by Jon Oso

yellow is faster. dig the Z06

lol! You know! Yellow is the fastest

[Choopa Phil]

Originally Posted by Jon Oso

a 275 is a REALLY small tire to run on a 10" wheel, a 255 is even smaller. I have a 275 on a 9" wheel fwiw. With a 11" wheel i'd definitely run a 315 or wider.

a 285 is a perfect size for a 10inch wide rim, 275 is barely stretched on there. if it was a 255 then id understand, however these are basic sizes that most g/z guys run. im jumping to something more agressive in the rear, a 305 will definitely require me to roll my rear fenders, my car is lower now than it was in those pictures i posted. Porsche Killer =]


Notice only a slight stretch, yea i could fit a 295 on there, but im not a domestic, theres no fun no rear camber =]

[tranza]

Some very nice rides

[Jon Oso]

275/50/15 on a 15x8" rim



315/35/18 on a 18x10.5"



275/40/17 on a 17x9.5"



315/35/17 on a 17x11" lowered on my car = rub rub rub





Import guys are silly with their tiny tires on big rims

[jact]

My wife just bought me a 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8 for my birthday, I'll put some pics up in a few but here's what it looks like:

(Link hotten)


Direct link:
http://images.thecarconnection.com/m...00178477_m.jpg

B5 Pearl Blue is the name of the color.

[dyna mo]

those cars would be a lot faster if'n they had some stickers on em

type R are the best for the quickness

[Jon Oso]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

those cars would be a lot faster if'n they had some stickers on em

type R are the best for the quickness

I was thinking about a VTEC, NAWZZZ, and TYPE S to start off, not sure if I'm ready for a type R

[Choopa Phil]

275/40/17 on a 17x9.5", thats not much different than my 275 on a 10 inch wide rim, its only a 1/2 inch difference, not only that but your not low enough to require your wheels being tucked under your fenders. I wouldnt put such a wide tire on such narrow rims, way too much slop and over hang, if im drag racing thats one thing but on a DD car, and one whos basis is mostly handling and mid range power ill keep the setup i have, its tried and true on most z's and g's no1 really runs anything wider than a 305

[Jon Oso]

All I'm getting at is that fat tires are better Although I do like some cars with the stretched tires look. I don't get it, but it looks cool sometimes.

[Choopa Phil]

lol i hope u guys arent referring to me...im the farthest thing from rice on this forum...

Stretched tires arent done for look, well some people do it for look, i do it because i like to use the widest rim i possibly can with the suspension settings on my car, im running some s. like i said im dropped even lower now, u can probably see maybe 1/2 of my tire. I can fit my car key between my tire and fender, thats how close they are, hence why they are rolled and will need to be pulled when i do a 305 tire. Stretch isnt for look in this application, its needed so i can maximize my rim/tire combo. my car is corner balanced and has just about every suspension piece available for it, rims and tires are my forte' =] if you slammed that thing u could put some 345's stretched on a 18x12 or 13 =]

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Jon Oso

I was thinking about a VTEC, NAWZZZ, and TYPE S to start off, not sure if I'm ready for a type R

good thinkin! build up yer skillz & after that comes some ground effects for teh real oomph

[jact]

Here's some pics of my baby. Fully loaded, a bunch of MOPAR upgrades on it already, 6 speed manual, started life at 425 horsepower but not sure what it's at now to be honest (Not a lot more, but some). Don't really plan on doing anything to it for a couple of years, not until I get driving it regularly out of my system. I have a full shopping list to put it over 1000 horsepower for when I'm ready though.

[Jon Oso]

Originally Posted by DLXphil

lol i hope u guys arent referring to me...im the farthest thing from rice on this forum...

Stretched tires arent done for look, well some people do it for look, i do it because i like to use the widest rim i possibly can with the suspension settings on my car, im running some s. like i said im dropped even lower now, u can probably see maybe 1/2 of my tire. I can fit my car key between my tire and fender, thats how close they are, hence why they are rolled and will need to be pulled when i do a 305 tire. Stretch isnt for look in this application, its needed so i can maximize my rim/tire combo. my car is corner balanced and has just about every suspension piece available for it, rims and tires are my forte' =] if you slammed that thing u could put some 345's stretched on a 18x12 or 13 =]

This is where I disagree, there is no functional purpose to stretching a small tire onto a big wheel just like there is no functional purpose to squeezing a big ass tire on a small wheel. You're losing contact patch you otherwise would have.

Or maybe I am just missing the entire point in stretching the tire. If I am feel free to correct me.

[datatank]

Where are the muscle cars?

[Jade509]

Originally Posted by 12clicksMichele

I think muscle car and I think of anything made in the 60's and 70's.

[dyna mo]

maybe the 1st couple of years of the 70s there were, but after 1972, you can forget about any 70s muscle cars.

[Choopa Phil]

Originally Posted by Jon Oso

This is where I disagree, there is no functional purpose to stretching a small tire onto a big wheel just like there is no functional purpose to squeezing a big ass tire on a small wheel. You're losing contact patch you otherwise would have.

Or maybe I am just missing the entire point in stretching the tire. If I am feel free to correct me.

stretching the tire allows me to clear my fenders while running the widest possible tire my car will allow, i cant run a 295 on a 20X10 because it will rub, not because it wont fit on the rim, i would need a 275 stretched, the stretch allows the for sidewall of the tire to not be perpendicular to the fender well, the same as negative camber. like i said its not for the look in this application it serves a purpose. I hope this clears up and confusion

[datatank]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

maybe the 1st couple of years of the 70s there were, but after 1972, you can forget about any 70s muscle cars.

Um

[datatank]

Plymouth 'Cuda 1970–1974

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by datatank

Um

1973 challenger-

1973-74 Engine Options Option code Size (cu. in.) Size (c.c.) Type Carb. Net Power (B.H.P.)
G 318 5212 V8 2 bbl. 150
H* 340 5573 V8 4 bbl. 240
L** 360 5900 V8 4 bbl. 245

lot's o muscle there eh.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by datatank

Plymouth 'Cuda 1970?1974

please, stop. emissions systems implemented in 1972, combined with the gas crunch and the desire for muscle cars waning, the manufacturers detuned those cars after.

[dyna mo]

The automotive safety lobby led by Ralph Nader decried offering powerful cars for public sale, particularly when targeted at young buyers: the power of many muscle cars underlined their marginal brakes, handling, and tire adhesion. In response, the automobile insurance industry levied surcharges on all high-powered models, an added cost that put many muscle cars out of reach of their intended buyers. Simultaneously, efforts to combat air pollution?a problem that grew more complicated in 1973 when the OPEC oil embargo led to price controls and gasoline rationing?focused Detroit's attention on emissions control.

A majority of musclecars came optioned with high-compression powerplants - some as high as 11:1. Prior to the oil embargo, 100-octane fuel was common (e.g. Sunoco 260, Esso Extra, Chevron Custom Supreme, Super Shell, Texaco Sky Chief, Amoco Super Premium, Gulf No-nox) until the passage of the Clean Air Act of 1970 where octane ratings were lowered to 91 - due in part of the removal of tetraethyl lead as a valve lubricant. Unleaded gasoline was phased in.

With all these forces against it, the market for muscle cars rapidly evaporated. Horsepower began to drop in 1971 as engine compression ratios were reduced. High-performance engines like Chrysler's 426 Hemi were discontinued, and all but a handful of other performance models were discontinued or transformed into soft personal luxury cars. Some nameplates e.g. Chevrolet's SS or Oldsmobile's 442 would become sport appearance packages (known in the mid to late 1970s as the vinyl and decal option - Plymouth's Road Runner was an upscale decor package for their Volare coupes). One of the last to succumb, a car that Car and Driver dubbed "The Last of the Fast Ones", was Pontiac's Trans Am SD455 model of 1973?1974. In 1975 its performance was markedly reduced, although it remained in production through 2002 and was made powerful again from 1993 onwards.

American performance cars began to make a return in the 1980s. Owing to increases in production costs and tighter regulations governing pollution and safety, these vehicles were not designed to the formula of the traditional low-cost muscle cars. The introduction of electronic fuel injection and overdrive transmission for the remaining 1960s muscle-car survivors?the Ford Mustang, Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird?helped sustain a market share for them alongside personal luxury coupes with performance packages, i.e. the Buick Regal T-Type or Grand National, Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS circa 1983-88.

1 muscle car made it past 1972.

1.

[Twistys Tim]

VW Golf Turbo owns EVERYTHING!!!!

[datatank]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

please, stop. emissions systems implemented in 1972, combined with the gas crunch and the desire for muscle cars waning, the manufacturers detuned those cars after.

You are correct but they still look like muscle cars hehe.