Brazzers is fraudulently billing customers - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

BFT3K · 05-19-2010, 09:22 AM

OMG! Thieves are NOW stealing from us!

What has this world come to?!

TheDoc · 05-19-2010, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideongallery

you need to explain this because when i charge back something i need to fill out a 4 page form with a penalty of fraud declaration

so if your doing split test between giving them full access on the trial and giving them limited access on the trial

so if in the 1st case people who backed out of charging back because they saw the penalty of fraud declaration

could easily be replaced with people who actually were pissed didn't fear the fraud declaration but basically said fuck it it will cost me 60 cents to mail the fraud dispute it not worth it.

when they had no justifiable reason to charge back fear of procecution would stop them
when they did have a justifiable reason inconvience did

you would still get zero change in charge backs and have people not agree with your definition of trial.

When I charge something back I call up the bank, tell them someone used my card/didn't get what I asked for, ie: fraud and they deal with it, depending on the fraud type I get a new card. Sounds like you need to change banks.

Each price point has just about the same CB levels, so your theory is wrong. With or without upgrades, trials or not...

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideongallery

i tested MBG on the join page i got 5.43% bump in conversion

ryan diess(sp) did the same thing on his sites and averaged something over 6%

puffy like the one brazzers has on it join page
which implys a money back guarrentee but doesn't actually stat it will get 3.12% increase in conversion (as long as it is trusted which it won't be after someone gets screwed like above)

Visa does not allow us to put a money back guarantee up, so we can't split test it. And mainstream numbers do not flip to adult, ever. Ryan Deiss does some great things in his Niches - none of which are porn. Orange buttons, borders around opt-in boxes, arrows, mouse over buttons, etc - not a single one of his landing page optimization tips produce even 1 extra sale in porn. His upsell/xsale methods totally a

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideongallery

limits can be stated as benefits for the non limited option

in that context the limit would be a benefit (just like the brazzers + mofos on this join page)

Changing anything outside the natural simple flow slows the ratios down...that's the point. Surfers like it stupid simple; new words, terms, marketing theories of how to pass it off - does not translate to more sales. Just like having it hidden or only in terms or not as clear as others - doesn't translate to more fraud.

Yes, a better balance can be found but not everyone agrees on that balance.

Atticus · 05-19-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I had a .5% before and a .5% after - so the answer is zero!

You're completely dismissing a huge variable to get your numbers. The number of users who are dissatisfied but do not feel it's worth it to charge back.

For example:

Option A: A $1 trial that offers full access to the members area. 1 in 200 chargeback but 20 feel ripped off.

Option B: A $1 trial that offers limited access and it is not disclosed on the tour that the trial is limited. 1 in 200 chargeback but 100 feel ripped off.

The same number of users chargeback but the dissatisfaction level rises 5x. The chargeback numbers stay the same because the actual % of users willing to do a chargeback for $1 is so low as to not affect the outcome. What happens the next time that user who is dissatisfied comes across a trial offer? The more they are lied to, the less likely they are going to take up the next trial offer, even if that new sites offer is legitimate. You're building up a customer base that distrusts everything.

I never once said that a site shouldnt or cant do a limited trial. My point is that if a site is going to go this route, what is offered in the trial should be clearly visable and explained (like the NetFlix example).

DWB · 08-19-2010, 04:16 PM

Say it aint so!

Grapesoda · 08-19-2010, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald

Well the word says it already "trial" membership not?

Don't think this is anything new though, don't most programs do it like this?

it's a typo... supposed to be 'trail' like at the nature preserve. you can wonder around, just don't touch anything

Jack Sparrow · 08-19-2010, 11:13 PM

Nobody cares as long as they are paying the webmasters. Thats when people start caring in the adult scene.

Barefootsies · 08-19-2010, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Sparrow

Nobody cares as long as they are paying the webmasters. Thats when people start caring in the adult scene.

True dat fine sire.

This industry does not care what is behind the curtain as long as they are paid, and on time.

Robbie · 08-19-2010, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Sparrow

Nobody cares as long as they are paying the webmasters. Thats when people start caring in the adult scene.

I have to say...I'm pretty sure that's the way it is in EVERY business. Does the car salesman care if the cars he sells are overpriced or the extra warranties and other "product" he tacks on to the sale in the backend are thousands of dollars more than the customer really has to spend. HELL NO.

Does the furniture store that sold you your couch care that they have a 200% mark up on it? HELL NO.

Does the gas station owner give a shit that the gas prices are overpriced and gouging you? HELL NO.

Apparently only the adult industry has salesmen that fret and worry about shit that is out of their league and out of their hands. No other business would tolerate the stupidity of having overpaid sales people like me running our cocksuckers and talking negatively about the very people who pay us. Crazy business for sure.

The Porn Nerd · 08-19-2010, 11:38 PM

I think the "little things" add up to big actions. It's completely true (in my experience) that "mainstream" sales tactics rarely (if ever) translate to Adult. I've tried some Frank Kearns techniques to little avail. You see, in "mainstream" people THINK.

In Adult, people FEEL. They SEE then they FEEL then they take action; THINKING just gets in the way of.....orgasm (more FEELING).

So KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. People laugh at my "old-school" designs but combine the fact that "old-school" can not only stand-out but also has a comfort factor with most customers being over-30 (under-30's spend the least and have been raised on "free") and you get $$$.

Knowing this, the "BROgrams" gloss over the little details, things only "someone working on an article" would bother to notice. "Christ, I GOT MY DICK IN MY HAND!" says the surfer/potential member. " WHAT BUTTON DO I PUSH SO I CAN JACK IT?"

Us little guys try to achieve the same affect, not through deception but through honesty: "HERE'S WHAT YOU GET! I TRUST YOU!" lol

Jack Sparrow · 08-20-2010, 01:22 AM

Sorry robbie but you are mixing up the webmasters and the salespersons in your comparison. But i think we agree.

Paul Markham · 08-20-2010, 02:30 AM

Also read the Terms and Conditions of the biller. Especially the DMCA part (could not find the site) and the part about billing "for any and all additional purchases of services".

Quote:

Originally Posted by pradaboy

What else did you expect really?

There's a few other sites doing it, not sure if they explain it any better but yeah in my mind it's misleading. Trial access to a website should mean full access for a limited time.

These kind of shenanigans are why the industry is where it is.

Quoted for the truth.

People whine day in and day out about how Tubes are stealing their traffic. Then accept what Brazzers are doing. Tubes stealing content is about 5% to blame for this industries decline. Sites and affiliates doing this to customers is 50%. Figures approx to illustrate the point.

As for the people debating whether it's acceptable or not, or fraud or not fraud are wasting their time. The only person who counts is the customer. Porn buyers are REPEAT buyers. Every time you piss them off you risk losing them. They have an alternative now and it's small wonder why they flock to it.

As for the people whining about members downloading the whole site in 3 days. Did they never hear of limiting the bandwidth?

I gave up reading this thread because it makes it clear why this industry is in the state it's in. Short term greed has come home to roost.

08-19-2010, 11:38 PM	#159
The Porn Nerd Living The Dream Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Inside a Monitor Posts: 19,536	I think the "little things" add up to big actions. It's completely true (in my experience) that "mainstream" sales tactics rarely (if ever) translate to Adult. I've tried some Frank Kearns techniques to little avail. You see, in "mainstream" people THINK. In Adult, people FEEL. They SEE then they FEEL then they take action; THINKING just gets in the way of.....orgasm (more FEELING). So KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. People laugh at my "old-school" designs but combine the fact that "old-school" can not only stand-out but also has a comfort factor with most customers being over-30 (under-30's spend the least and have been raised on "free") and you get $$$. Knowing this, the "BROgrams" gloss over the little details, things only "someone working on an article" would bother to notice. "Christ, I GOT MY DICK IN MY HAND!" says the surfer/potential member. " WHAT BUTTON DO I PUSH SO I CAN JACK IT?" Us little guys try to achieve the same affect, not through deception but through honesty: "HERE'S WHAT YOU GET! I TRUST YOU!" lol __________________ My Affiliate Programs: Porn Nerd Cash \| Porn Showcase \| Aggressive Gold Over 90 paysites to promote! Now on Teams: peabodymedia Last edited by The Porn Nerd; 08-19-2010 at 11:39 PM..

05-19-2010, 09:22 AM	#151
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	OMG! Thieves are NOW stealing from us! What has this world come to?!

08-19-2010, 04:16 PM	#154
DWB Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Encrypted. Access denied. Posts: 31,779	Say it aint so!

08-19-2010, 11:13 PM	#156
Jack Sparrow Almost goners.. Industry Role: Join Date: May 2008 Location: Netherlands Posts: 11,420	Nobody cares as long as they are paying the webmasters. Thats when people start caring in the adult scene.

08-20-2010, 01:22 AM	#160
Jack Sparrow Almost goners.. Industry Role: Join Date: May 2008 Location: Netherlands Posts: 11,420	Sorry robbie but you are mixing up the webmasters and the salespersons in your comparison. But i think we agree.