Vjo

I have an eleven y/o (thank god as the madness is finally going to end) cat who is prob the greatest mouser ever. He could certainly compete in the mouser olympics.

Anyhow he has killed and brought into the house over the last 11 years about 500 rodents of all kinds and prob 150 birds. Another of equal numbers killed that he doesnt bring in. This benefits the neighborhood and area however sometimes he gets hold of other stuff too. Most birds he doesnt kill so usually I can free them from the house.

Last night I walk into the bedroom ready for bed and WHOA there is a maimed pigeon with a broken wing, a few feathers ruffled. Where is the cat. Outside lounging on an outdoor chair. I guess he fig he would let this pigeon go. This is a big chunky country pigeon. never heard a thing. Most small critters are screaming when he brings them in.

So I put it outside and hide it under a tree for now. Im tired! Well 3 hours later, flopping pigeon on the floor. Cat found it brought it back in. I put it under another further huge pine tree. Back to bed. Annoyed as fuck!

This afternoon I check on it and the thing is flopping in the sun. I think oh man. Now what.

Well only two choices. Kill it or give it a lift. Cant leave it flop in the sun. Well folks the old cat is a big softie so yes off to the woods we go.

I cut two spring water bottles in half for water containers and went to this little store to see if they have any bird seed. Well as you can see, being my day, of course they did not. So I bought a bag of corn chips (corn, oil, salt) and a walnut cliff bar and set him up in some tall grass. Went back tonight and he is doing fine. Brought him some crackers.

So I'll stop by every other day and the pigeon "should" be fine but we'll see. lots of critters out roaming. I put him alongside a huge dirt field and a road on the other side, so maybe not too many critters. He is lucky it is July and not Oct. He has a broken wing. Otherwise is in good shape.

What are you going to do. Around here most cats have free reign so that is how it goes.

Earlier this year I gave two baby bunnies a lift two diff times. I didnt "set them up" tho. Just saved them from sure slaughter. Came home a month back and smelled something real bad when I opened the house door. One of the worst crime scenes ever with a baby bunny.

Thank god for vinegar. It is all that works.

Oh and this cat has been sprayed by skunks THREE times. 2004, 06, 08, god please not this year. That is a nightmare story.

I seen him get it the first time as we both walk out at 4am and there is a skunk 30 ft away. He spots it and immediately goes over to impose on it. Skunk walks away and I lose sight. 5 mins later cat comes back.

When he came in the house, I have a cat door, the whole house immediately wreaked. I had no experience and panicked big time. All my clothes ect. Now days after 3 times I am the skunk expert around this board. Still I HOPE it doesnt happen again as it is a MAJOR pain in the ass.

Second time in 2006 was right outside my door. Oh that was fun for the neighbors and neighborhood Im sure. 3rd time in 2008 he just got grazed, still bad tho.

Tomato juice, doesnt do crap. Vinegar over a month is your only hope. The cat will stink for 6 months no matter what.

My cat was here whining just now and I yelled at him. God that whining is so annoying.

Anyhow I am sick of all the bloodshed. But, no I wont keep him inside. As I don't feel that is right either unless that is all you have than it is ok. I lived with a cat in an apt for 8 years but if you have the outdoors the cat should be free I feel. But there is a price to pay.

Anyone else ever do a rescue? With 60,000,000 feral cats in the US I know a lot of pigeons were killed today by cats but I just didnt have the heart to watch this pigeon die.

So it goes. Now I have to care for a pigeon.

Spunky

I'm surprised my cat hasn't been sprayed by skunks yet.I think she's smart enough not to fuck with them

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Vjo

Hehe let's both hope Spunky. Thing is skunks are really tiny petite little things and look like the perfect thing to f with to a cat. I live alongside a woods so that prob doesnt help the cause.

Also I could put a collar on him with a bell but that is not good as they can easily get hung up on a branch in a shrub and choke, so you cant do that. All cat books tell you a harness is ok but not a collar. I have tried elastic collars over the years with cats and they always eventually come back without the collar.

beerptrol

Have 2 bells surgically implanted in his sac lol

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Vjo

lol there ya go

When they neutered him they should have done that.

Seriously tho 50 mice inside the house a year. Prob about 30 alive. They always find a nook to ditch the cat once inside. So now you have to tear things apart or just leave it. I used to tear the place apart to get it outside if still alive. Now I realize just leave it. Maybe leave the door open a crqck and go back to bed.

Crazy around here.

~Ray

at least you cared.

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Spunky

Had a mom and 4 babies out back last year.The cat would sit there watching the babies playing like 2 feet away.mom was there and didn't find her a threat.It's funny,I had a few over the years actully come 2 feet away from me and start scratching the dirt but they don't mind the cat lol

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Vjo

Yeah, it actually was really easy and the pigeon is right where he should be.. after tangling with a cat.

I always think what a way to go.. eaten alive but I must have loyalty with my cat and I guess it is just nature. Mice dont bother me but rabbits, squirrels, and big birds I try and intervene.

Cat lives to hunt. All winter he "works out" with an elastic string and a dummy bag.

I once seen a show on Hist chan or such where Great Britain has (or had) a bad mouse prob in some areas and needed more cats over there. So cats do do a service. 1000 mice in this area (500 plus 500 he doesnt bring in) multiplying over 10 years. And that is just one cat killing that many.

So we need our gibbys out prowling at night as they have for 1000's of years.

Vjo

Yeah some cats are better mousers than others and maybe they sensed yours was a softie. I have owned (and now prefer ) cats who dont hunt so much.

This one is an American Breed (rah, rah rah USA ) (common mixed brown and black, tiger stripes on the face) Which is one of the best mousers and smartest cats. Very independent and hearty cat. Mixed breed I guess.

At 11 he slowed down a lot and cant get the smaller birds or even too many mice anymore. But he is technically so good he still gets a few. And he is out there now till dawn scoping things out as always.

LongBG

People who let their animals kill wildlife should be prosecuted and forbidden to keep pets.

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SallyRand

"Crimes"?

Sorry and don't get me wrong here but do you realize that cats are PREDATORS?

That it doesn't make any difference what YOU think?

Cats are CARNIVORS; they eat MEAT and you can try all day, all week and all year long to try to change that but look at the DENTITION ("Teeth" to the uneducated among you!) and you will find that them thar TEETH ain't made for chewing GRASS!

If you can't handle the cat doing what Nature designed it to do, get rid of the cat and get a dog.

oh wait

dogs are predators too

never mind

get a goldfish

or a hamster

spunky99

my cat stays inside, nothing good happens when he goes outside.. (balls chopped off, shaved, vet visits).. right now he's on my bed infront of the ac.. his new favorite spot with this heat

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Alky

you didnt save the bird, you are prolonging its agony.

take it to a bird sanctuary or something.

raven1083

I never thought you have a good heart....lol

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Kill the cat, problem solved!

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Zyber

Good cat!
(except that it potentially brought the diseases into your home)

Pigeons are filthy disease-filled flying rats. I'm not kidding..

You could risk your health.

Here are some of your new potential flat-mates

Pigeon ticks (Argas reflexus)
http://www.jcehrlich.com/pest-guides...s/pigeon-tick/
(very resistent dangerous bugs that can hibernate up to 5 years)
http://www.jacionline.org/article/S0...052-X/abstract

Bed bugs
http://www.pestproducts.com/bedbug.htm

Pigeon fleas infesting humans
http://www.radoslawspiewak.net/2004-5.htm



Pigeons are not cute...

Good luck

Zyber

Taking care of "cute pigeons", the symbols of love, is a human mistake.

Pigeons don't need protection. They need bullets...

I have tried to suffer from living too close to pigeons. I lived in an attic, where pigeons decided to live on the roof. It was truly a nightmare, and the only way to get control of "home" again was to move out. Having those pesky things as neighbours you feel constantly under threat, and you feel that your home is under attack.

I managed to shoot and kill 4 pigeons, but it was not enough to keep the hordes of rats away.

I don't know what was the most annoying thing about those invaders: The health problems (yes, I have been bitten by the tick), or the horrible screams pigeons make when roosting in the early morning and in the evening. In the middle of the day they are away, getting fed breadcrumbs by stupid people who care for pigeons.

The wing's flapping sound is also horrible. Especially when a flock of 30-40 pigeons makes a take off or landing.

Another little secret about pigeons is that they have see no problem building their nest on top of another dead pigeon. For a pigeon the rotting corpse is just "building material" helping to stabilize the nest.

Humans should never touch those animals!

If I were you, I would care more about the health of myself and my loved ones

~Ray

So no squab for you?

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Zyber

Ray, definitely not..

_Richard_

why exactly do you have pets?

now your cat is going to bring you dead animals, and then hide it for you

Vjo

Follow up..

Many people have that opinion and I knew this post would po a few folks. I have read many forums and a fairly high % have this opinion. It is not black and white. Obviously I am a guy who hates to see stuff die as well...

but you must also realize that if cats didnt run wild at night and kill tons of vermin and rodents (and yes, unfortunately a few other species) well who knows how that would mess up the eco system especially within human inhabitated areas. Deep in the woods things take care of themselves where i'm sure a lot of those 60,000,000 feral cats reside. If we removed the other say 20 mill of the 100 mill domesticated cats from prowling at night there would be big problems.

Mice love to chew on wires inside walls. That is prob number one. Fires.

But it is not all win-win and everyone is happy. That is the real reason I posted to bounce the whole "cats are killers" thing off everyone.

People who feel bad and are angry at cat owners for this, make a point and I respect it.


All true.

It really comes down to this: Do you keep a cat inside and leashed all its life or not.

Imo the cat, for the good of society and public health, must be allowed to roam at night and kill rodents.

You may be right. My exp with animals tells me you prob are but this bird is in good shape except for the wing. So will its wing repair before the fall or a preditor gets it.

If I asked the bird yesterday, do you want me to give you a lift and give you a shot at living or shall I hack your head off.. So I gave it a lift I guess so I can live with myself.. but i may still be doing the wrong thing and it may be prolonging the agony. I dont know but will find out.

Very good posts and informative Zyber. I know if I lived in say NYC I would not be carting around Pigeons. I was indeed ignorant of that. Now maybe a country bird is less inclined to carry pest, disease, ect but I know you are right.

I should never have carted it. And I learned. Still in a residential area shooting a gun to kill it would be shakey here.

First thing that went thru my head was grab a cleaver but then I thought oh fuck, just bring it to the woods.

Then I started thinking it will die a slow death from lack of food. I am prob wrong there too. But I fig what does it hurt to leave it some water and food.

Bottom line as I said my loyalty is with the cat and it will run. It is slowing down fast and wont be killing much more.

This makes me reconsider getting another cat but I prob will as cats are needed by society, espec in our populated areas, to fight the rodent and vermin problem and to a lesser extent fight the overcrowding of birds as well.

I dont know. This is not an enjoyable thread to me. I have thought this all over many times.

I appreciate all your feedback.

I dont want to beat this to death (no pun intended) just wanted to get some opinions which I did so it was a good thread and helps inform cat owners a bit more.

BigDeanEvans

I have four cats, two are outdoors and the other two are hairless cats so they stay inside. The two outdoor cats are savages. They kill anything and everything that moves. Every night i hear hear high pitch squeaks and cries out in my yard its its always them killing chipmunks, mice, moles, birds, baby rabbits etc., And they always love to leave them on my front stairs for me ;)

Vjo

Alright Big Dean. I would high five you but that might not be in good taste.

Mind you if the cat kills something (usually a rodent of some type) and brings it in (or not) that doesnt bother me. It is the half dead ones where the problem comes.

Now mice and most birds will almost always die quickly after encountering a cat but bigger mammals and birds.. can be a problem.

If I wasnt in city limits I could just take a 4-10 gauge and do what all farmers do everyday in these situations.

ottopottomouse

Broken wing.

Snap it's neck. Bin it.

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Vjo

Yeah fuck. You're prob right.

Anyhow, I've had enuff of this thread.

Thanks all for helping me tackle this issue.

Tom_PM

Used to have 3 cats when I lived with mom and brothers years ago. One evening I heard what I thought was one of the cats coming in through the back door. Then I heard it crunching on dry food.. but it didnt sound right.. it was loud crunching.. so I carefully looked, and it was a skunk! It'd come in the cat door and was chowing down on cat food! Looking around and there were all 3 cats in 3 different doorways, all crouched down silent and just watching.. thank GOD the skunk seemd to FINALLY realise it was being watched from all directions or something and it got the hell out of the house..

whew that coulda been MUCH WORSE!!!!! haha

Good luck with your animals.

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Vjo

Man! that is nuts. See that is the diff, most cats will be cautious, the one I have now would have.. caused a stink bomb to go off. Oh man.

Skunks dont like to spray unless they have to. I can just imagine mine putting the moves on the one the first time. Cats always get it right in the face or chest. All 3 times mine got it there. First time he got a point blank squirt to the chest and face. He was freaking out.

It is so concentrated an odor that if your house is 2000 sq foot and the cat comes in one end with that kind of gunk on him, the whole house will IMMEDIATELY wreak, all clothes all linens everything the cat gets a few feet from and if he happens to brush anything.. you will need to wash it with white vinegar over and over if you want to keep it.

So you have a freaked out cat running around. And a freaked owner after the cat. I keep minimum 3 gallons of vinegar on hand at all times and a few extra towels.

The main prob is keeping the cat from touching any furn before you can get him to the bathtub. And you better have white vinegar around as nothing else will dent it. Then sleeping was a nightmare in the house. I could go on and on.

The stuff I washed him with and all linens and clothes near the bathroom, shower curtain, bath mats ect had to be thrown as there was no way to wash them from odor even with Oxydol and 6 washes.

Writing this brings back the memories. That bathroom wreaked of the nausiating (and it gets that way quick) smell for about 10 days after washing it down sev times with white vinegar.

Skunk is prob the real king of beasts.

Vjo

Since I'm at it you'll also have to cover all furn for about a month as the cat even tho washed is still highly transferable for a week after.. if he brushes anything it will still stink. Moderatly transferable for 3 weeks after.. If he lays on something that will need heavy covering for about a month.

After about a week and daily vinegar washings he will no longer be highly transferable. Then you'll just have a little furry air freshener running around for another 3 weeks. Like I say he will stink of skunk for at least 6 months if you smell him.

Potent shit.

Sam Granger

Will the pigeon survive? No chance at all! Unless someone takes it to a bird sanctuary of some kind or indoors and know what they are doing. The pigeon is just dieing slowly right now. The wing, if properly broken, won't grow back unless it's set in the right position and the bird gets its wings bandaged up for a week or 2/3. Cats tend to have a lot of bacteria on their nails, which often causes infections, you can't always see them, and if their crops are ripped, it would require being stitched up. Regarding pigeons having diseases, it isn't as bad as people make it to be.

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2MuchMark

I hate to say it as your heart is in the right place, but what you are doing is cruel.

Letting your cat out to roam around gets rid of the mice, but it exposes your cat to rabies and other dangers. While Lions and Tigers can eat raw meat, Good old' Canned cat food is better in the long run.

The Pigeon your cat maimed is suffering. If its wing is broken it can never survive outside. It can't get food or water. It can't fly away from danger and can't mate. If it ends up in the sun it will surely slowly cook to death.

While getting rid of the mice is comforting to most home owners,, killing the birds is not. Fewer birds in a neighbourhood increases the insect population which increase the risk of disease, and slows the growth of trees.

If you love your kitty, keep him indoors. Let him out when you go out to play and run around. Keep your eye on him though to keep him safe.

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_Richard_

did time slow down?

always slows down for me when i see the dog go after one

Sam Granger

Ps. I assumed you checked if the pigeon has a ring on it's leg? Could be someones pet - racing or show pigeon.

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Vjo

Good post and duly noted for the future cats I will own.

I did not get this cat as a kitten but, got this cat at one year old as a neighbor's stray I fed. He was human owned at one time but they sort of neglected it as it was not getting fed.

He roamed outdoors on his own for a long time before I started feeding him and took him in which is where he learned these hunting skills and habits.

But next time I'll get a kitten and raise it my way. Personality is developed in the first 6 months which I had no control over.

Sam, I hear you.

I'm not sure its wing is broken but it doesnt fly. Looks alert and so forth tho. But yeah if it isnt flying then maybe it will not heal on its own.

I cant afford vet bills and I really dont want to take him in somewhere so i guess that is how it goes for the pigeon. I did get him out of the sun and set him up in a shady place amongst tall grass. Perhaps that is where it should end for me.

We'll see. I also have a friend who is good with this kind of stuff. He's on vacation right now tho. But will be back before end of July.

Anyhow I have to earn a living so I better bow out of the discussion for now.

Thanks again to everyone who stepped up and helped discuss a tough topic.

Not a happy thread but maybe we all got something from it.

czarina

did you check on the pigeon today, is he doing ok?

Jarmusch

You know, when a cat brings dead animals into the house, basically he thinks you fucking suck at hunting and is trying to teach you how to catch your own food.

See the #1 reason why cats are evil here:
http://www.cracked.com/article/226_6...xplanations_p2

Vjo

I was going to check on him every other day. Maybe I'll drive over now tho if you are concerned.

I'm 95% sure he is fine but who knows. I'l go see right now and will let you know in an hour. See if he made it thru the night. Maybe buy a bag of birdseed if he is still well. All that salt in the other stuff I gave em cant be good.

I knew I should have left this under the rug where it belongs. hehe

Maybe I'll buy a digital cam if there is a launching someday and he flies again.. for you all. If I had one Id post a pic now but never bought one yet.

Vjo

hehe This is true. I don't hunt anymore.

OK lets go check on the bird.

See if any racoons came along last night.

kane

The pigeon isn't going to heal on its own. Broken bones normally don't just heal without some kind of medical attention. Even if it does he probably will never fly again and being on the ground is a death sentence.

You should either kill it and put it out of its misery or take it to a wildlife rescue where they can repair the broken wing and let it heal so it can fly again.

Tom_PM

hehe, I think it was more like an extended chant "please dont attack the skunk, please no, dont, good kitties, dont do it, the stripe means no" and so on in that fashion, lol.

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Vjo

I'm still getting ready to go.. talking to a pet hospital.. might have a rescue center for wildlife..

ok I am takung it to a vet right now for free if it is still there. They have a program. If it is too bad they will euthanize it for free otherwise this lady will take it in.

Tell more later. Got to go.

Thanks Kane, you are right and reading your post made me realize this is the best thing to do.

TurboAngel

I had a cat who would rip the tails off squirrels and bring them home, yuck. They bring things like that in as a gift for you. A nasty gift but a gift none the less.

ottopottomouse

Don't want to sound heartless but round here pigeons are vermin not a fancy bird worth repairing, unless the vet wants practice at fixing broken wings.

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DateDoc

Cool that you are pitching in there to help. Around here the pigeons get eaten by the hawks. They pluck them right out of the air then munch on them.

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kane

Cool. Glad to hear this. Let us know how it turns out.

BTW it is good of you to do this for the bird. Most people would have just killed it or tossed it and forgotten all about it.

La_Sexorcist

I probably would have put the flopping bird out of its misery.

Vjo

Well, the bird did not make it through the first 24 hours. He was still there and in the shade but no go. It is also still pretty hot today here.

Lady who takes in birds says indeed it is pretty hard for a downed bird to survive.

Anyhow, at least we all know if this happens call the biggest vet and they can prob put you in contact with someone if your in an area that doesnt have a specific wildlife rescue.

It was indeed a Rock Pigeon. She said Morning Doves are protected and there is paper work with them but pigeons there is no paper work or laws on what you to with them.

Vjo

Well I feel a certain responsibilty I guess. Not enuff to keep him inside, plus at this point my cat would have a fit staying inside. Like I say I know some will die with an outdoor cat but if I can intervene I will. That is how I play it.

And if this was NYC or other metropolitan places as I say my outlook on pigeons would be diff. To me it is just a bird and figured I'd give it a shot at surviving.

If it had been still alive I might have continued bringing it food ect and now I know that seldom works with birds. Plus people were starting to notice me going into this area which was posted and off limits actually.

So thanks to you and everyone.

Zyber

I am happy that the Rock Pigeon (normal urban pigeons) didn't survive. Even though you used your good heart.
Well, you can call me a pigeon hater if you like

Some people hate having those animals attack the place they call home



Turn up your volume, and listen to the sounds. Now imagine being forced to listen to this noise in your bed for hours.


Also, imagine trying to have a good nights sleep, knowing that the ticks (argas reflexus) and the bedbugs will bite you in the night when it is dark, and hide in your walls during the day. Night is feeding time. And the food is right in your bed. You!

Also imagine that you must keep windows closed on a warm summer day, otherwise the pigeons, which are right outside, would enter your apartment.

I am so very glad I moved from my apartment. What started as luxury gradually turned into a nightmare as more and more birds infested the buildings in the neighbourhood.

And then there are the evil humans (supposedly with good hearts?) who cause this suffering for other people. All while "rescuing" pigeons.
Some people should get convicted for that.





But of course those people with a good heart (towards pigeons) don't know how evil they are towards other humans. Ultimately making other people hate being terrorized by the birds so much.



When pigeons decide that your home is their home - your house is doomed! Even if you capture them, and release them in the nature, they will find home. To your home! You will need more than good luck in evicting those squatters from your home!

Zyber

I might agree with you that the situation could be different outside of the cities. I don't know.. maybe

Overload

i hate pigeons bad ass ... i kill them whenever possible ... fuck those flying rats

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