DMCA - Producers Selling Out - Tubes Legitment ? - GoFuckYourself.com

tblocker · 01-22-2011, 05:14 PM

Hello people, i need some feedback here as i had come with an idea ( Its more than just an idea, i think i'm totally skilled into entirely developing it ) to automatically inform studios/producers when a tube site is streamming their footage ... And it doesn't need from the producer end a finger printing technology to be introduced, PLUS, it will be a free service, i just want to take this bastards down, its a principles thing, as plain as that.

The question here is, things are pretty fucked and messed up, all the huge tubes are owned by the very same people that should be defending the industry of paysites by revenueing themselves from dating/cams and doing serious bucks, if this is not the case, they are moving into doing arrangements with big studios in order to add Vobile fingerprinting software to avoid their full movies and exchange it for a small teasers ( Which i can't complain about it as its a legit way of selling stuff ), but we all know how they all grew by stealling everybodies content from scratch and now are trying to get legit.

Right now, they are well established and doing serious bucks, my question here is, they are somehow trying to get LEGIT, they are cutting up deals with all the big studios, and they know small studios don't spend the time or have the money to go against them. So, my questions here are:

1. Are there any stupid producers out there selling their whole footage to tubes to stream it LEGALLY and don't caring the hurt this makes to the industry and themselves by just cashing up some huge ammount of money quick in exchange of the license?

2. Someone really has stats of how much of the big tubes library is really ILLEGAL? By ILLEGAL i mean that they are streaming it without the producers required license ( I'm afraid at this point they may had bought lots of stupid small producers? )

I mean, i don't want to spend a lot of time developing this FREE thing if it wont hurt tubes operation .... I guess here the DMCA guys will have to enter which are contanstly checking for illegal content on tubes ...

I just want to leave one fact clear here ... My service will be FREE and will be meant to be used by a tool for DMCA guys to make their work faster .... I'm not willing to profit from this if its being done. I want the fuckers out of the biz, plain and simple, and i want to do something about it, not just bla bla bla on a board and sit back and keep seeing how they manage to keep becoming more and more legit.

So, i need stats from legit parties to make sure i wont spend a lot of time on something that wont help at all or will have really small impact on tubes operation.

Thoughts?

Harmon · 01-22-2011, 05:33 PM

Fact is, Pandora is out of the box.

If you are asking if the "tubes" buy legal content? Yes they do. Some don't, who fucking cares?

If you are asking if they have tons of "illegal" content on them? Yes they do.

The fact of the matter is that the pornography game, as far as time goes back has always been a somewhat small operation. Let me explain.

1980s BBS Days: gifs that took 17 hours to load on 300 baud modems made guys thousands; took one horny kid

1990-something-ish, internet born as well as flatbed scanners - again, something a teenager could make a couple of hundred grand a year off of just rescanning the shit he has jerked off to a million times. Anyone with a cam can make HUGE money with "amateurs" and a domain name. 900 billing is fucking HUGE!

I know that is an incomplete synopsis of the entire history of porn online, but my point being...

Pan away to 2010-2011. Most of those same guys that were used to pointing and shooting at local bitches for 100k+ per year are feeling the brunt. It's no longer a small guy's industry. Corporate has taken over. It sucks, I feel it... kind of.

Legal costs would be through the roof, and most are plain out lazy. There are no definitive laws regarding user uploaded content. Some can complain about DMCA laws, but when it comes down to it, once again - Pandora is out of the box.

That leaves the content producers... the little guys used to operating out of their 2 bedroom apartments in the 90s to either:

A) Fight them at the cost of years life's savings

B) They are already broke because the same guys did too much coke and bought shit

C) License it out and pay bitches less

D) fuck "X" number of licenses, let's just sell that 40 min video to 10,000 people if I can - I'll blame it one the tubes stealing my shit

Any way you cut it, something needs to be done. It's sad and it is totally the end of an era. Even the major vets on this board, not naming names, but they try to pull their "clout" and it looks stupid. It's embarrassing actually.

It's a big money game now, and right now all of the money is only going to a few selected corporations. One of those corporations is not me.

Good luck.

Barefootsies · 01-22-2011, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmon

If you are asking if the "tubes" buy legal content? Yes they do.

True dat.

Harmon · 01-22-2011, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

True dat.

See part "D" of the above post lol - that's where people get fucked

And anybody that isn't aware of the situation, is easily confused ;) Most here are not aware.

tblocker · 01-22-2011, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmon

Fact is, Pandora is out of the box.

If you are asking if the "tubes" buy legal content? Yes they do. Some don't, who fucking cares?

If you are asking if they have tons of "illegal" content on them? Yes they do.

The fact of the matter is that the pornography game, as far as time goes back has always been a somewhat small operation. Let me explain.

1980s BBS Days: gifs that took 17 hours to load on 300 baud modems made guys thousands; took one horny kid

1990-something-ish, internet born as well as flatbed scanners - again, something a teenager could make a couple of hundred grand a year off of just rescanning the shit he has jerked off to a million times. Anyone with a cam can make HUGE money with "amateurs" and a domain name. 900 billing is fucking HUGE!

I know that is an incomplete synopsis of the entire history of porn online, but my point being...

Pan away to 2010-2011. Most of those same guys that were used to pointing and shooting at local bitches for 100k+ per year are feeling the brunt. It's no longer a small guy's industry. Corporate has taken over. It sucks, I feel it... kind of.

Legal costs would be through the roof, and most are plain out lazy. There are no definitive laws regarding user uploaded content. Some can complain about DMCA laws, but when it comes down to it, once again - Pandora is out of the box.

That leaves the content producers... the little guys used to operating out of their 2 bedroom apartments in the 90s to either:

A) Fight them at the cost of years life's savings

B) They are already broke because the same guys did too much coke and bought shit

C) License it out and pay bitches less

D) fuck "X" number of licenses, let's just sell that 40 min video to 10,000 people if I can - I'll blame it one the tubes stealing my shit

Any way you cut it, something needs to be done. It's sad and it is totally the end of an era. Even the major vets on this board, not naming names, but they try to pull their "clout" and it looks stupid. It's embarrassing actually.

It's a big money game now, and right now all of the money is only going to a few selected corporations. One of those corporations is not me.

Good luck.

Great feedback and analysis. Didn't think about it until you mentioned it in that way. OK, very true, now its a game a big corporations, its the natural course of things i guess and i think its not something bad, the bad thing is that this big corporations are doing bad things .... So i guess you need to be skilled enough or loose the game against them. Off course with all the "illegal" stuff they did or are doing, makes it really taugh for honest legit people, so lets say i would like to clean the path for this legit guys ( being me one of those ) ....

My questions actually are the ones you answered, you actually took the time to read my whole post and got pretty well my idea, what i would love to know is, ok, we already know they are buying content, how much of it? Can they survivie with that bought content? is that bought content only 10% and 90% illegal or from parties that can't afford time/money/etc to go against them, or they already turned things the other way round and its 90% licensed for full streamming and only 10% is illegal in which case they turned into a LEGAL unfair competition and there is no other way but to fight this back LEGALLY, and on that field i can't do anything, but when it comes to computers, i can do a lot with them and i willing too ....

So ... How legit are tubes these days? Are producers getting into the unfair competition game by selling their whole footage to them or are they fighting back? Would it have sense to have a tool like the one i mention for DMCA guys quicky cut tubes library ( Hurting their surfers audience ) and maybe all small and not that small producers together fill a good lawsuit when this tool automatically group tons of content on tubes from them?

The point is, we all know its a big companies game today, what i want to know is if this game is already LEGIT or still dirty and are playing with their huge name and budgets to scare people out of doing something about it? And the only ones that try just get bought ....

I'm willing to try to make a huge FREE effort to cut off all the illegal content they may have on their libraries and off course making this information public so producers can get together and file class lawsuits against them, but that game, the one of the lawsuits and even further doing something about the unfair competition if they already became legit is a fight i wont enter into it TODAY, i don't have the resources for it .... i may in the future, right now, only willing to stay on the online part and give everyone really interested on taking them down a tool to be used legally against them ....

Please keep sending thoughts .... I'm really looking forward of answers and see if i re-schedule some big projects i have to start this one ....

The point is that as you say, they are big corporations and are not stupid, so if my tool gets successfull, they will end up becoming legit by buying tons of small producers content or doing whatever it takes to stay alive, and this will keep like this until someone ALSO does something in court .... Being this file big class lawsuits against them with all small/medium and big studios/producers chasing them for the illegal content they streammed and are streamming from them in the past AND off course doing something about unfair competition, as their business model of giving out free movies and profiting from dating/cams sites seems to work very well for them so even if they don't have any fucking producer willing to license them the full footage, i think they are in conditions of shooting content just for their tube sites .... So at the end, it will all end on the same place, UNFAIR COMPETITION, we will all just start shooting the best content we can and buy cheap bandwidth and give it for free in exchange of selling expensive spots OR take them down, in the meanwhile, we ( the ones involved in the paysites biz are giving them our money as a gift ... )

So, at the end, someone MUST take this into the unfair competition field, meanwhile, you are just letting them profit and keep profiting and making the paysites model coming back more and more taugh .... What do you think about this? Will someone do this somehow someday? why isn't there anybody doing it still? ( I only can remember one case of someone doing it and i think they cut a deal ... )

Ps: As a side note, i also think on a lawsuit mansef got from a studio ( PinkVisual i think ), they answered back that the lawsuit should be dropped as this same company that was filling the lawsuit also used somehow copyright content from mansef ... I'm not sure if that argument can sustain in court, but if it does, i'm just making myself a question, what is stopping anyone stream all brazzers full length movies for free? I mean, somehow they did in the past stream lots of studios content for free, those studios then are in condition of streamming all their content for free?

Harmon · 01-22-2011, 06:00 PM

You are failing to realize the problem is the proverbial "web2.0" (supposed) user submitted content, and what is honestly manageable.

The big production companies can do it. And they can enforce it. It's called cahoots.

I challenge you to drop around to all of the big tubes, hell go to the smaller ones. No tiny ones, but anything 50-100k plus traffic a day.

Send me a link with a Brazzers full length. Not a 5-7 minute clip. I want a 30-40 minute plus movie.

And then, if you can find it? Post it. At that point, let's count the hours until it's gone. If it doesn't go down fast? Guess who own the site - but then again, sill y me - they don't even give their own content away.

tblocker · 01-22-2011, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmon

See part "D" of the above post lol - that's where people get fucked

And anybody that isn't aware of the situation, is easily confused ;) Most here are not aware.

The good thing of the part D is that we can easily probe the fail of the producer to respect the agreement and can easily be taken down .... Off course your content already got cheap, but still you can take those producers our of the game and take some money from them easily ;)

And honestly, sorry but its so fucking stupid someone that actually purchases a semi exclusive license for X content and then when he sees it around all over the place he just doesn't collect enough probes from other parties like him that purchased the content in order to at least make the situation public here on GFY ... not mentioning that would be easily probed in court with 11 ticket purchases when licensor claimed it would only sell 10 ;)

RycEric · 01-22-2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tblocker

Hello people, i need some feedback here as i had come with an idea ( Its more than just an idea, i think i'm totally skilled into entirely developing it ) to automatically inform studios/producers when a tube site is streamming their footage ... And it doesn't need from the producer end a finger printing technology to be introduced, PLUS, it will be a free service, i just want to take this bastards down, its a principles thing, as plain as that.

The question here is, things are pretty fucked and messed up, all the huge tubes are owned by the very same people that should be defending the industry of paysites by revenueing themselves from dating/cams and doing serious bucks, if this is not the case, they are moving into doing arrangements with big studios in order to add Vobile fingerprinting software to avoid their full movies and exchange it for a small teasers ( Which i can't complain about it as its a legit way of selling stuff ), but we all know how they all grew by stealling everybodies content from scratch and now are trying to get legit.

Right now, they are well established and doing serious bucks, my question here is, they are somehow trying to get LEGIT, they are cutting up deals with all the big studios, and they know small studios don't spend the time or have the money to go against them. So, my questions here are:

1. Are there any stupid producers out there selling their whole footage to tubes to stream it LEGALLY and don't caring the hurt this makes to the industry and themselves by just cashing up some huge ammount of money quick in exchange of the license?

2. Someone really has stats of how much of the big tubes library is really ILLEGAL? By ILLEGAL i mean that they are streaming it without the producers required license ( I'm afraid at this point they may had bought lots of stupid small producers? )

I mean, i don't want to spend a lot of time developing this FREE thing if it wont hurt tubes operation .... I guess here the DMCA guys will have to enter which are contanstly checking for illegal content on tubes ...

I just want to leave one fact clear here ... My service will be FREE and will be meant to be used by a tool for DMCA guys to make their work faster .... I'm not willing to profit from this if its being done. I want the fuckers out of the biz, plain and simple, and i want to do something about it, not just bla bla bla on a board and sit back and keep seeing how they manage to keep becoming more and more legit.

So, i need stats from legit parties to make sure i wont spend a lot of time on something that wont help at all or will have really small impact on tubes operation.

Thoughts?

Good luck. Everything you have mentioned costs money. Even your own time is money I would hope. I don't understand what it is you are trying to accomplish. Remember.. you are going up against companies who already have big budgets and will try and push you out of the line of fire.

SmokeyTheBear · 01-22-2011, 09:29 PM

hard to convince people when they have their mind set on a method..

lets do a little history on "tubes"

who is the biggest , most succesfull, top aligned tube ever ?

youtube...

how did they get their start ?

people uploaded illegal content right and left ..

how did they avoid getting their asses sued ?

they started making deals with various studios, diluting their collection of illegal content with legit titles , user content etc while making the dmca process slow and laborious to slowly remove illegal conent

marketsmart · 01-22-2011, 09:56 PM

until the law is changed, you are pissing in the wind...

better to join them then fight them....

.

d-null · 01-22-2011, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

until the law is changed, you are pissing in the wind...

better to join them then fight them....

.

thing is you can't really play the same game unless you have lots of money behind you for lawyers or just want to risk losing everything

tblocker · 01-22-2011, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RycEric

Good luck. Everything you have mentioned costs money. Even your own time is money I would hope. I don't understand what it is you are trying to accomplish. Remember.. you are going up against companies who already have big budgets and will try and push you out of the line of fire.

I'm not doing anything illegal

So ... The only thing that will be hurt is my time

Thats why i'm trying to figure out if its worth it, if having such tool will impact on their videos archives and maybe some intelligent lawyer/studio willing to make money can check all the small/medium/large producers/studios that my tool finds content stolen ( If they actually have .... ), put them all together and file a big class lawsuit that really impacts them in terms of budget and makes them, like i heard on other small cases, even have to give out the control of the domain ...... And off course industry does not start cutting deals like someone said youtube did ....

But at the end, like somebody else said about the laws, if nobody takes legal actions against them, this will keep rising and making everything more difficult for everybody, and this is not just an old school TGP guy don't wanting to adapt to tubes, i actually own a legal one which promotes one of those companies behind the big illegal ones ... but mines only streams AT MOST one minute PER SCENE, AT MOST, AND MOST OF THEM HAVE AN AVERAGE OF 40 seconds and and ARE TEASERS, WILLING TO SELL MEMBERSHIPS, not 1 minute cut footage, playing on a template that does not show any spot from other but the company i'm promoting and i manually upload the videos .... Don't let "users uploadings" .... So basically, i'm showing a a teaser on a template that sells that sites teaser, ITS A FUCKING HYBRID TGP with streaming support lets say. It actually looks more to a TGP than a current tube ...

But i think the biz model is clear here, they are making the paysites market unrentable on behalf of the dating/cams one .... The worst thing is that at the end, this two will also be hurt natually by the nature of new generations and social networks such as facebook which already have the term: "In an OPEN RELATIONSHIP" on their profile to choose ....

Everybody will be caming/dating for free, new generations are less shy, like they do on any club, chat, etc. And they would not have to pay to see people caming/dating, so there is when they will want to see a "lets say" Doctors Adventures scene and they won't have anymore paysites out there and in the middle they had destroyed the paysites model, off course those in the middle will have done tons of money ....

And i'm not sure there is another industry which we can compare the case ... I mean, you think quickly on the music industry, and still, musicians profit a lot in some way from piracy on tours worldwide, and small ones get benefited by piracy by making their music avaliable for people they would had never reached making them known to sell their HUMAN PRESENCE ( Heard tons of small bands talking about this on radio ), the problem here is that PORN MOVIES do not have a HUMAN PRESENCE TO SELL ( They did .... but well, you know blockbuster right? ) so, if you start giving it out free, there is nothing you can profit from them ... Well, who knows, maybe i'm shooting here a great idea, Brazzers, BangBros, RK ( Clearly they are not the same on the tubing/ethical/marketing practices thing, just mentioned them as they are the three pilars of the industry? But we all know from that list who is doing shit and who doesn't ... ), are you planning on doing worldwide tours ???

About the changing the laws things, come on, i'm not a lawyer, but i think i can put some things together without being a genious from what i heard on different public cases, isn't there already a law for unfair competition? Isn't there a law for intellectual rights??!?! Fuck, thats why i purchase licenses from content providers to build paysites and i sell memberships just showing top 1 minute teasers instead of giving all out for free and charging for spots .... What are tubes doing wrong? They are competing unfairly and stealing everybodys content, or at least they started this way? then just fucking file lawsuits, do class lawsuits, why i don't see nothing about this BUT for PinkVisual against mansef ( Which ending cutting a deal ) and i think one of twistys??? No one fucking else ?!?!? How is there so much talk about it and i can only see those two? sorry, also vivid, there you have a stand up company, what are they doing? i remember they filed a lawsuit a long time ago, what happened with that?

Anyway, its time big studios realice this and stop cutting deals as they won't have anything to sell in the near future .... Unless of course all are adapting to the idea of shutting down the making porn movies industry down and are already working on caming/dating, which is what i would do if i where the President of Hustler or such companies ( Even BangBros/Brazzers/RK ) if they are not already working out on legal actions against this sites for unfair competition ..... ( The online sites we already know they have their dating programs ;P But at least some of them are not behind the tube sites )

Honestly, when i saw the movie about Larry Flint, not sure if its really true all the movie shows or its just a script made for it, but someone like him, right now, would be invaluable i think for the future of the industry .... I really think this is a breaking point, and its not just when MPGs appeared instead of TGPs, the zango shit, etc ....

YOU, STUDIOS realice there's a clear unfair competition, get all together and take them down, or you won't be able to keep shooting content in the near future ....

Anyway, still willing to know as in what i can help i want to do something, porcentage of stolen content on big tubes? who is sending DCMA's here? how many do you send daily to PornHub? Tube8? YouJizz? XVideos? Its worth it having such a tool?

I already contacted a trusted third party that sells a service for sending them out, please send me companies that do this, i will contact them directly and see if they can disclose this kind of information, i wont spend all that research to find out that only 10% of their content is only ILLEGAL RIGHT NOW, and hope somebody does something legal if i can get to find 50% of their content illegal, as my tool/service/comminment without legal actions from the real owners of the copyrights of the content would have no fucking impact on the tubes operation.

tblocker · 01-22-2011, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

until the law is changed, you are pissing in the wind...

better to join them then fight them....

.

What else do you need a part from copyright infringement and unfair competition? Please some serious lawyer step in, if every fucking studio that gets a movie stolen files a lawsuit individually and all take a class lawsuit for unfair competition?

Isn't there any studio that can easily open a "antitubecoalition.com" domain and just request publicy to studios that had sent DCMAs to tube sites contact them and they start making some money and a LEGIT NAME in industry by doing this?

Don't YOU STUDIO have a friend or related lawyer? Why don;t you show him the opportunity he has here .....

They have big budgets, that means they have lots of money to invest AND TO LOOSE .... I know there should be people out there to loose some time just for principles like me, because they are mad, because they want to make a legit name, because they want to make some bucks, there are lots of reasons someone may want to step in at this breaking point .... think about it people ....

DWB · 01-22-2011, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tblocker

1. Are there any stupid producers out there selling their whole footage to tubes to stream it LEGALLY and don't caring the hurt this makes to the industry and themselves by just cashing up some huge amount of money quick in exchange of the license?

That would be most of porn valley. Just about every DVD company is in dire straights right now and most of them will sell their content to just about anyone (at a discounted rate) at this point.

DWB · 01-22-2011, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

hard to convince people when they have their mind set on a method..

lets do a little history on "tubes"

who is the biggest , most succesfull, top aligned tube ever ?

youtube...

how did they get their start ?

people uploaded illegal content right and left ..

how did they avoid getting their asses sued ?

they started making deals with various studios, diluting their collection of illegal content with legit titles , user content etc while making the dmca process slow and laborious to slowly remove illegal conent

But are they making a profit?

I know in 2009 they were losing almost a 1/2 billion dollars that year. 2010 looked like they *may* turn a small profit but I never saw anything else about it.

tblocker · 01-23-2011, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

But are they making a profit?

I know in 2009 they were losing almost a 1/2 billion dollars that year. 2010 looked like they *may* turn a small profit but I never saw anything else about it.

They were not but it is a different model, it always makes me laugh how people compare mainstream to porn biz like if they worked the same way ....

An affiliate manager of one of this top paysite network that owns many of the tops tubes always use two examples, the youtube one, and the mcdonalds one .... probably many received the same examples ....

If someone gave me a "McDonalds for free, i wouldn't reject it, even when its oversaturated" he claims when someone talks about oversaturated content, off course i wouldn't except if i had infront of my McDonalds a burguer king giving out burguers for free .... Almost no one would come and buy me a McDonalds burguer, and i would have to had a big budget for employees, keeping McDonalds strict standards, etc .... I couldn't afford ir when Burguer is infront and getting paid by saying another trademarks name from another piece of the market, lets say: "Here you have your free burguer, remember you can easily lost each calory you just earned by easily taking one of X pills ...." each time they give a burguer for free ( Sounds similar to something we are talking about right? ).

Then he talks about YouTube to justify their tubes network, the thing is:

1. YouTube REALLY HAS MOST OF ITS CONTENT UPLOADED.

2. THEY REALLY MAKE A HUGE EFFORT TO AVOID INFRINGEMENTS.

3. They are not giving out for free on one side of the table the very same thing they are trying to sell on the other one .... And still, they should be liable to lawsuits if they stream for free my fucking content that it took me a lot of time and money developing.

So i guess copyright infringements still apply, again a lawyer should step in here, and about unfair competition, well, i think they invented the term, so i guess there was not someone selling the same service already? Actually they couldn't if you think so .... Thats why the big tubes are illegal or are cutting deals, if they could be legit, they would ....

The little thing here is that they can't unfairly start giving out for free porn movies when playboy, hustler, vivid, pinkvisual, bangbros, etc, a whole market is investing big bucks on developing good content, like i can't step infront of my grousery and start giving out vegetables for free, like i can't put a burguer king infront of a mcdonalds and start giving out burguers for free, etc.

They are trying now to get legit, and many producers are lazy enough to sell them their content and making the path EASIER, STILL, that takes from their hands the copyright infringement, but they are still liable for unfair competition, and i don't think the YouTube example fits, i think any judge would see the easy difference ....

Its MORE like if iTunes suddenly started giving out free music, they have to settle deals with companies and just be a gateway to sell the music, they can't just give it for free, same applies for burguer king and mcdonalds, etc. Like walmart and carrefour. Now, if they can buy enough content, they could sell it very cheap and i guess both arguments would not be liable anymore, which i guess is where they will go if there are lazy producers selling their whole footages AND SOMEONE WOULD DO SOMETHING LEGALLY ABOUT THE UNFAIR COMPETITION!! WAKE UP BBO/RK/ETC.

But if they did this, honestly, i wouldn't care anymore, i mean, its legal, its legit, its even ethical, if they produce and can afford those costs with their pricing, it would mean they are doing things right enough to profit and still sell ...

There it would be a fair competition as i can in that case sell something with higher quality for more money for example .... Off course if they sold it that cheap, they would then be liable to monopoly stuff probably if they got whole share of the market ( Would be also interested to check this putting all together big tubes from same owner? ;P ), but well, this whole discussion would be ended and we would be already talking about a legit successfull model company .... The thing is that if they reached this point, is probably because in the middle a lot of lazy producers didn't sued them about their copyright infrigement at start, and then when starting to cut deals because they became huge using others work no one did anything about the unfair competition, which is HAPPENING NOW, so let it be .... Keep the eyes on the big picture producers, you are writing your own RIP message ;)

4. Its mainstream! Its a bussiness model where they don't have to necesarily make a profit to be rentable ...... As another user mentions about the huge looses it has been having in the last years ....

I'm still looking for replies, would please someone here that actually daily sends DMCAs to huge tubes tell us how many they sent the last week? where there big studios? what do they see? are they starting to have licensed content? do they steal big studios content? etc?

Nathan · 01-23-2011, 01:17 AM

tblocker, do not want to crash your thread or anything...

But your first logic flaw here is that you are trying to sue people for something that is legal. Of course, if you think its not legal, go and try to sue, but I will bet quite a bit of money that you will not win.

Also, one thing... if you really think people owning both ends of the stick, like we do, have any interest in destroying one end of it which will obviously destroy the whole stick in the end, then oh well, what can I say.... there are others out there, that only own tube sites, which you should be much more concerned with.

Regarding your unfair competition... at what point would it be fair in your opinion? If it cost $1? or $5? Or $10? What about Videobox.com, or our own Moviebox.com .... I am sure you will at some point come in and claim that is unfair competition too, since you can join for $19.99 and get more full length movies than any tube on the planet has... in HD too!

Unfair competition is a very hard thing to prove, you are making it out to be easier than it is...

BTW, since you keep wondering, we spend 7 figures on content licenses specifically for the tubes regularly.

xenigo · 01-23-2011, 01:19 AM

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/realice

RycEric · 01-23-2011, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tblocker

I'm not doing anything illegal

So ... The only thing that will be hurt is my time

Thats why i'm trying to figure out if its worth it, if having such tool will impact on their videos archives and maybe some intelligent lawyer/studio willing to make money can check all the small/medium/large producers/studios that my tool finds content stolen ( If they actually have .... ), put them all together and file a big class lawsuit that really impacts them in terms of budget and makes them, like i heard on other small cases, even have to give out the control of the domain ...... And off course industry does not start cutting deals like someone said youtube did ....

But at the end, like somebody else said about the laws, if nobody takes legal actions against them, this will keep rising and making everything more difficult for everybody, and this is not just an old school TGP guy don't wanting to adapt to tubes, i actually own a legal one which promotes one of those companies behind the big illegal ones ... but mines only streams AT MOST one minute PER SCENE, AT MOST, AND MOST OF THEM HAVE AN AVERAGE OF 40 seconds and and ARE TEASERS, WILLING TO SELL MEMBERSHIPS, not 1 minute cut footage, playing on a template that does not show any spot from other but the company i'm promoting and i manually upload the videos .... Don't let "users uploadings" .... So basically, i'm showing a a teaser on a template that sells that sites teaser, ITS A FUCKING HYBRID TGP with streaming support lets say. It actually looks more to a TGP than a current tube ...

But i think the biz model is clear here, they are making the paysites market unrentable on behalf of the dating/cams one .... The worst thing is that at the end, this two will also be hurt natually by the nature of new generations and social networks such as facebook which already have the term: "In an OPEN RELATIONSHIP" on their profile to choose ....

Everybody will be caming/dating for free, new generations are less shy, like they do on any club, chat, etc. And they would not have to pay to see people caming/dating, so there is when they will want to see a "lets say" Doctors Adventures scene and they won't have anymore paysites out there and in the middle they had destroyed the paysites model, off course those in the middle will have done tons of money ....

And i'm not sure there is another industry which we can compare the case ... I mean, you think quickly on the music industry, and still, musicians profit a lot in some way from piracy on tours worldwide, and small ones get benefited by piracy by making their music avaliable for people they would had never reached making them known to sell their HUMAN PRESENCE ( Heard tons of small bands talking about this on radio ), the problem here is that PORN MOVIES do not have a HUMAN PRESENCE TO SELL ( They did .... but well, you know blockbuster right? ) so, if you start giving it out free, there is nothing you can profit from them ... Well, who knows, maybe i'm shooting here a great idea, Brazzers, BangBros, RK ( Clearly they are not the same on the tubing/ethical/marketing practices thing, just mentioned them as they are the three pilars of the industry? But we all know from that list who is doing shit and who doesn't ... ), are you planning on doing worldwide tours ???

About the changing the laws things, come on, i'm not a lawyer, but i think i can put some things together without being a genious from what i heard on different public cases, isn't there already a law for unfair competition? Isn't there a law for intellectual rights??!?! Fuck, thats why i purchase licenses from content providers to build paysites and i sell memberships just showing top 1 minute teasers instead of giving all out for free and charging for spots .... What are tubes doing wrong? They are competing unfairly and stealing everybodys content, or at least they started this way? then just fucking file lawsuits, do class lawsuits, why i don't see nothing about this BUT for PinkVisual against mansef ( Which ending cutting a deal ) and i think one of twistys??? No one fucking else ?!?!? How is there so much talk about it and i can only see those two? sorry, also vivid, there you have a stand up company, what are they doing? i remember they filed a lawsuit a long time ago, what happened with that?

Anyway, its time big studios realice this and stop cutting deals as they won't have anything to sell in the near future .... Unless of course all are adapting to the idea of shutting down the making porn movies industry down and are already working on caming/dating, which is what i would do if i where the President of Hustler or such companies ( Even BangBros/Brazzers/RK ) if they are not already working out on legal actions against this sites for unfair competition ..... ( The online sites we already know they have their dating programs ;P But at least some of them are not behind the tube sites )

Honestly, when i saw the movie about Larry Flint, not sure if its really true all the movie shows or its just a script made for it, but someone like him, right now, would be invaluable i think for the future of the industry .... I really think this is a breaking point, and its not just when MPGs appeared instead of TGPs, the zango shit, etc ....

YOU, STUDIOS realice there's a clear unfair competition, get all together and take them down, or you won't be able to keep shooting content in the near future ....

Anyway, still willing to know as in what i can help i want to do something, porcentage of stolen content on big tubes? who is sending DCMA's here? how many do you send daily to PornHub? Tube8? YouJizz? XVideos? Its worth it having such a tool?

I already contacted a trusted third party that sells a service for sending them out, please send me companies that do this, i will contact them directly and see if they can disclose this kind of information, i wont spend all that research to find out that only 10% of their content is only ILLEGAL RIGHT NOW, and hope somebody does something legal if i can get to find 50% of their content illegal, as my tool/service/comminment without legal actions from the real owners of the copyrights of the content would have no fucking impact on the tubes operation.

Long story short.. tube piracy less than 3% of overall piracy online... in terms of numbers we saw. Tubes are the new form of promotion as tgp/mpg/link lists die. Producers upload trailers, label, blog on etc. Full dvds rare on tubes. Some concept of adapt or die is cruising around the water coolers.

tblocker · 01-23-2011, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

tblocker, do not want to crash your thread or anything...

But your first logic flaw here is that you are trying to sue people for something that is legal. Of course, if you think its not legal, go and try to sue, but I will bet quite a bit of money that you will not win.

Also, one thing... if you really think people owning both ends of the stick, like we do, have any interest in destroying one end of it which will obviously destroy the whole stick in the end, then oh well, what can I say.... there are others out there, that only own tube sites, which you should be much more concerned with.

Regarding your unfair competition... at what point would it be fair in your opinion? If it cost $1? or $5? Or $10? What about Videobox.com, or our own Moviebox.com .... I am sure you will at some point come in and claim that is unfair competition too, since you can join for $19.99 and get more full length movies than any tube on the planet has... in HD too!

Unfair competition is a very hard thing to prove, you are making it out to be easier than it is...

BTW, since you keep wondering, we spend 7 figures on content licenses specifically for the tubes regularly.

LOL, thanks for taking the time to answer, made me have tons of more questions, lets start:

Could you please be more specific with this: "But your first logic flaw here is that you are trying to sue people for something that is legal." ... I'm still not sure which part you claim is legal, the copyrights infringement tubes did/are doing or the unfair competition one.

About this part of your answer: "Also, one thing... if you really think people owning both ends of the stick, like we do, have any interest in destroying one end of it which will obviously destroy the whole stick in the end, then oh well, what can I say.... there are others out there, that only own tube sites, which you should be much more concerned with", both doing copyrights infringements and unfair competition worry me, anyone stealing others work/job unfairly worries me, off course the big ones are the ones that make more impact and are the first ones that should be taken down if what i'm saying is liable to set an example/presedence

"Regarding your unfair competition... at what point would it be fair in your opinion? If it cost $1? or $5? Or $10? What about Videobox.com, or our own Moviebox.com .... I am sure you will at some point come in and claim that is unfair competition too, since you can join for $19.99 and get more full length movies than any tube on the planet has... in HD too!"

Not familiar with Moviebox, i only think i saw it promoted inside brazzers members area a couple of times and always wondered why they did that, Brazzers people are not stupid and that site is clearly selling something good, i mean, if i have a small paysite i would never upsell brazzers on my members area, now i understand

Still, going back to your comment: If you charge anything, its fair ;) If you can afford it of having it for one buck, don't loose that chance, you will have pretty more clients

"BTW, since you keep wondering, we spend 7 figures on content licenses specifically for the tubes regularly."

As a side note, thanks for the inside information, as your signature claims you are part from manwin/mansef, which its up to my understanding the owners of the tubes that many of us think are destroying the very same business you should protecting as being also up to what is my understanding owners of Brazzers too? .... Please let me know if i'm confused as you seem to be really nice and willing to disclose all this information without any regards as you are very sure all you are doing is pretty legal, please illustrate myself and other so at least I stop aparently this huge stupid thing i'm thinking.

Could you be please be more specific about this comment also: "BTW, since you keep wondering, we spend 7 figures on content licenses specifically for the tubes regularly."

You mean Tube8, PornHub, etc spends on licenses for streaming whole movie footages for free on their sites from "lazy" producers about 7 figures regularily, what is regularily btw? Monthly, Anually?

I'm still wondering why you then need user uploaded content if you are buying that much content? I never see that content .... I mean, i only see studios content, so, or its uploaded by users illegally or its stolen by the tubes owner, and as you claim you spend a lot of money on licenses, why bother having a users uploading scheme when they only use it to upload content they don't own their copyrights as we all know there is no amateur content on these sites

And being able to spend that much money, i guess you have a huge infrastructure, i guess it would had more sense to have someone approving only amateur/real users generated content?

EDIT: btw, one more question, how much of the whole movies we see on tube8, pornhub, etc are licensed? Just a heads up, if you own the sites, make this quick maths from your DB ( if you gave me your DB description i could even give you the MySQL query to get the results ) : Total Ammount Of Scenes Over 10 minutes - ( Total Of Scenes You Have Licenses For Over 10 Minutes + Total Of Scenes You aknowledged are user generated over 10 minutes ( Meaning from no studio which you could be infringing copyrights ) )

The result will i think give a huge percentage of illegal content as i already said, i don't see much amateur/user generated content on your sites, just studios ones, so the result for that query would give me more or less the idea of how many scenes you are streamming for which you have no right to do so, probably at least 40% of that ammount of scenes would be violating copyrights ( User uploaded or not, which is not a good thing, i guess you think like me on this ...... )

RycEric · 01-23-2011, 02:12 AM

KillerK · 01-23-2011, 02:27 AM

he who has the most money makes the rules.

tblocker · 01-23-2011, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RycEric

Long story short.. tube piracy less than 3% of overall piracy online... in terms of numbers we saw. Tubes are the new form of promotion as tgp/mpg/link lists die. Producers upload trailers, label, blog on etc. Full dvds rare on tubes. Some concept of adapt or die is cruising around the water coolers.

You mean porn piracy or general ( porn + music + software + etc ) ? Because we are talking about porn here .........

Just loaded tube8 index page, the less length scene i see has 13 minutes, the most has an hour and a half minutes, in the middle, an average of 30/40 minutes scenes .... I know they don't stream whole DVDs, if you are familiar with paysites concept, you know they sell scenes, not full DVDs, basically i think they are selling the same thing i told you i just see on that site online doing one click

Actually, if i had not principles, i think i could easily collect all those scenes with wget and watermark them with my site name and make a nice paysite with them and charge a nice ammount of money

Off course that would be very very illegal and i would get a big red flag instantly. Now, maybe if i could afford the initial bandwidth costs and then just sell spots, and say the content is uploaded by users .... mmmmmmmmm .... I'm wondering ..... Still i would be in troubles sometime when people start realicing i'm uploading that content and there is no actual users uploading it, or maybe i have a few friends but i'm clearly knowing what is happening, maybe if i can build fast then i would try to legit by cutting some deals and purchasing content with the money i got from those spots from initial stolen content, mmmmmmmm ... no, i think its not a good idea, i don't like fucking around with others people work because i respect others hard work. Seems like a great idea, but i don't think it would work .... Studios would sue me fast, i would get DoSed, my ass would even get kicked by some crazy producer, etc. I think its not a good idea.

tblocker · 01-23-2011, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerK

he who has the most money makes the rules.

Yeah, well, this companies at the start didn't have that much money, i even remember talking with a friend of mines that worked for one of the big Bs telling him: "You guys should be carefull with this other B, they are rocking it, they will pass over you, they will be rising fast and you are doing always same shit ...." He laugh at that time and said they had no chance .... Well, 5 years later, the big Bs switched places

And i think this company made their huge success legit, i actually remember sending them an email to start promoting them when they still didn't even had an affiliate program because i was amazed about their sites, marketing, etc. They were just pushing their paysites by themselves and they answered me back that they still couldn't accept affiliates but where working on it, i think i'm one of their first affiliates .... I remember seeing the beta launch of the program when i was already at least a year ago promoting them and doing nice sales. I think they are a GREAT program and think their network is the best one online, its a solid product, i can't say anything about the product itself but good things, thats not the point, the point is their AT LEAST not ethical selling strategy owning tube8, etc ....

Still, as someone already stated, its a game of big companies today, i think the one we are not confortable with, have infront lots of other big companies that can afford to do something .......... And have enough money to do so ...... I mean, after reaching some money point, its not more about money anymore .... I think the 3 big online companies/pilars for example ( BBO, Nastys, Brazzers ), could fight each others if they wanted too legally without any troubles at all .......

pr0phet · 01-23-2011, 03:06 AM

tubes are the biggest buyers of content. if a tube site comes and says i will buy your whole line of content but i want to put it on my whole network of sites.... not many producers would say no.

not very many webmasters out there actively buying content..

Nathan · 01-23-2011, 03:16 AM

Eric, very different words you post here than you usually post in any of the threads talking about me or my corp... interesting remarks coming from you...

tblocker,

"Copyright infringement tubes" can never be legal, by definition of the words you just used. But, not all tubes are "copyright infringement". Ours are not, because we follow DMCA rules. The unfair competition one has nothing to do with legal or illegal.

Brazzers upsells to all kinds of sites. Moviebox is just one of them. They all give the user something different. They are not clear competition, they are extensions to what we offer. Upsells are an important part of member value... people that pay for porn jump from site to site. The tighter the upsell network, the more likely it is that they stay with our products or come back to them at some point.

You say if I can afford it to offer the service for $1 per month, I should do it... but free I should not? If I can afford offering the service for free, why is that so much worse than offering it for $1? Hardly makes sense to me. It is not unfair competition, its not like we use the tubes as a loss-leader, we do make money with them.

I own Manwin, I have nothing to do with Mansef other than I bought all their assets last year. And yes, we own big tubes and we own big paysite networks too. We simply have a difference of opinion as to how much harm our tubes do to the industry. We protect our exclusive content, but we have to protect it much more on non-tube sites than on tubes...

Regularly means regularly, it changes... If it were yearly I would say that.

Us licensing content has nothing to do with us uploading it. Also, the claim that we have no amateur content is wrong, we do have that.

The part you are not understanding in general, as so many others do not... COPYRIGHTED content does not automatically become INFRINGING on a tube site. The upload MIGHT be infringing right away, but the tube site is not. Content becomes infringing as soon as we get a DMCA notice. Before that, it might very well be copyrighted, but even if we know its copyrighted, that does not make it illegal content!

Harmon · 01-23-2011, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

....but even if we know its copyrighted, that does not make it illegal content!

No, but it does make you a fucking scumbag.

jonnydoe · 01-23-2011, 05:15 AM

"Before that, it might very well be copyrighted, but even if we know its copyrighted, that does not make it illegal content!"

This is what pisses people off Nathan. As, I have said before the whole DMCA thing was poorly written and I will add that is being abused. The spirit of the law was for ordinary people to be able to share freely on the internet to a point and gives a remedy when they share content that is copyrighted. It was not written to allow the companies themselves to upload copyrighted content and say catch me if you can. I suppose it is a question of ethics.

gideongallery · 01-23-2011, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

tblocker, do not want to crash your thread or anything...

But your first logic flaw here is that you are trying to sue people for something that is legal. Of course, if you think its not legal, go and try to sue, but I will bet quite a bit of money that you will not win.

Also, one thing... if you really think people owning both ends of the stick, like we do, have any interest in destroying one end of it which will obviously destroy the whole stick in the end, then oh well, what can I say.... there are others out there, that only own tube sites, which you should be much more concerned with.

Regarding your unfair competition... at what point would it be fair in your opinion? If it cost $1? or $5? Or $10? What about Videobox.com, or our own Moviebox.com .... I am sure you will at some point come in and claim that is unfair competition too, since you can join for $19.99 and get more full length movies than any tube on the planet has... in HD too!

Unfair competition is a very hard thing to prove, you are making it out to be easier than it is...

BTW, since you keep wondering, we spend 7 figures on content licenses specifically for the tubes regularly.

teen revenue tried to make the arguement that fair use was unfair competition not only did they lose that point but they actually set the bar a lot higher for anyone trying to make that complaint again.

that the worst part about idiots trying sneak these bad precedents thru the system, when they get slapped down they make it harder for people to win the cases they need to in the future.

Nathan · 01-23-2011, 11:13 AM

LOL... no, you do not get it... It has nothing to do with it being copyrighted content... essentially, EVERYTHING is copyrighted, some MIGHT be registered copyright, although most things are not... But that does not make it illegal.. you just do not get what I am saying obviously by the comments you (harmon and jonnydoe) posted... For example, any content piece we hold a license for, and a 3rd party uploads, there is NO REASON we should remove it... but yet, you would NEVER EVER find out if we owned a license or not, so all the ranting about all the in YOUR opinion illegal content, is complete stupidity.. The _ONLY PERSON_ that knows if the item might be on the site legit or not is the ULTIMATE OWNER of the copyright... and THUS he can send DMCA notices to remove content which in his opinion should not be there...

One of the reasons why Viacom had a HORRIBLY BAD CASE against youtube was that people FROM VIACOM uploaded content to youtube! This is what people need to start realizing and understanding what this ultimately means... and I am not going to teach you all what you should pay lawyers to explain to you...

Nathan · 01-23-2011, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnydoe

"Before that, it might very well be copyrighted, but even if we know its copyrighted, that does not make it illegal content!"

This is what pisses people off Nathan. As, I have said before the whole DMCA thing was poorly written and I will add that is being abused. The spirit of the law was for ordinary people to be able to share freely on the internet to a point and gives a remedy when they share content that is copyrighted. It was not written to allow the companies themselves to upload copyrighted content and say catch me if you can. I suppose it is a question of ethics.

God no, you COMPLETELY missed the point of DMCA! The point of DMCA is to make sure that people that offer services to 3rd parties to host or make accessible any kind of copyrightable content, can not be held accountable for what 3rd parties do!

It has NOTHING to do with "sharing freely", nothing whatsoever.

Of course it was not written to allow companies themselves to upload content.. I am not saying catch me if you can... I am saying THERE IS NOTHING TO CATCH.. we are _NOT_ uploading content ourselves UNLESS we own a license to do so... anyone claiming something else is simply lying or is making it up... so your argument does not work at all.

Harmon · 01-23-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

LOL... no, you do not get it... It has nothing to do with it being copyrighted content... essentially, EVERYTHING is copyrighted, some MIGHT be registered copyright, although most things are not... But that does not make it illegal.. you just do not get what I am saying obviously by the comments you (harmon and jonnydoe) posted... For example, any content piece we hold a license for, and a 3rd party uploads, there is NO REASON we should remove it... but yet, you would NEVER EVER find out if we owned a license or not, so all the ranting about all the in YOUR opinion illegal content, is complete stupidity.. The _ONLY PERSON_ that knows if the item might be on the site legit or not is the ULTIMATE OWNER of the copyright... and THUS he can send DMCA notices to remove content which in his opinion should not be there...

One of the reasons why Viacom had a HORRIBLY BAD CASE against youtube was that people FROM VIACOM uploaded content to youtube! This is what people need to start realizing and understanding what this ultimately means... and I am not going to teach you all what you should pay lawyers to explain to you...

So tell me NATHAN

If I surf your fucking controlled tube sites, and I happen across a full length video to let's say (for the sake of argument) ABC Amateur Porn Studio, and according to your OWN WORDS you know the are copyrighted... if i bring it to your attention, will you take it down?

I am not the copyright holder, but again, everything is. So if I complain about it, will you take it down? We all know you are looking out for the best interest of the entire industry, not just manwin. (I never capitalize vermin)

Why don't your sites advertise full length Brazzers shit?

Why do you have to wait for the actual copyright holder to email you and jump through your endless amounts of hoops? DMCA is a joke, and hence you continue to do what you do.

Nobody will buy a $10 ice cream cone from a stand, but send 10,000,000 people across the front of that same ice cream stand and eventually somebody will buy one... or two... or three...

"There is a sucker born every minute..." -W.C. Fields

You nathan (no capitalization oops), are one of them. You keep on going on with your train of thought. See where that gets you.

tblocker · 01-23-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

Eric, very different words you post here than you usually post in any of the threads talking about me or my corp... interesting remarks coming from you...

tblocker,

"Copyright infringement tubes" can never be legal, by definition of the words you just used. But, not all tubes are "copyright infringement". Ours are not, because we follow DMCA rules. The unfair competition one has nothing to do with legal or illegal.

Brazzers upsells to all kinds of sites. Moviebox is just one of them. They all give the user something different. They are not clear competition, they are extensions to what we offer. Upsells are an important part of member value... people that pay for porn jump from site to site. The tighter the upsell network, the more likely it is that they stay with our products or come back to them at some point.

You say if I can afford it to offer the service for $1 per month, I should do it... but free I should not? If I can afford offering the service for free, why is that so much worse than offering it for $1? Hardly makes sense to me. It is not unfair competition, its not like we use the tubes as a loss-leader, we do make money with them.

I own Manwin, I have nothing to do with Mansef other than I bought all their assets last year. And yes, we own big tubes and we own big paysite networks too. We simply have a difference of opinion as to how much harm our tubes do to the industry. We protect our exclusive content, but we have to protect it much more on non-tube sites than on tubes...

Regularly means regularly, it changes... If it were yearly I would say that.

Us licensing content has nothing to do with us uploading it. Also, the claim that we have no amateur content is wrong, we do have that.

The part you are not understanding in general, as so many others do not... COPYRIGHTED content does not automatically become INFRINGING on a tube site. The upload MIGHT be infringing right away, but the tube site is not. Content becomes infringing as soon as we get a DMCA notice. Before that, it might very well be copyrighted, but even if we know its copyrighted, that does not make it illegal content!

Great feedback, so let me understand this, if i put online a tube site, and users upload all brazzers/bangbros/rk content for example, real users, lets say i encourage them of doing it, as you state: even if i know, until i don't receive the DMCA its not illegal, so i build up a huge library with all this sites networks, until i get the DMCA, it would all be fine? and if after receiving the DMCA i put the content immediately down, it will be ok? i can't get sued then? Just one more question, what happens if the same content gets uploaded again after i took it down, and like this forever? If everytime i get a DMCA i take it down it would be legal what i'm going with my site?

About the unfair competition, i guess its a difficult subject, as i told you i see a big difference between doing it free and for at least one buck, but you have a point there that only one buck would still be a taugh argument to comply with ....

Harmon · 01-23-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tblocker

Great feedback, so let me understand this, if i put online a tube site, and users upload all brazzers/bangbros/rk content for example, real users, lets say i encourage them of doing it, as you state: even if i know, until i don't receive the DMCA its not illegal, so i build up a huge library with all this sites networks, until i get the DMCA, it would all be fine? and if after receiving the DMCA i put the content immediately down, it will be ok? i can't get sued then? Just one more question, what happens if the same content gets uploaded again after i took it down, and like this forever? If everytime i get a DMCA i take it down it would be legal what i'm going with my site?

About the unfair competition, i guess its a difficult subject, as i told you i see a big difference between doing it free and for at least one buck, but you have a point there that only one buck would still be a taugh argument to comply with ....

More or less, change the URL to the content and you are safe. And this Cunt (capitalized because you deserve it) condones it.

Have you seen the sites and threads on them? They created their own accounts just to fucking upload stolen shit. Shame on them. Every dollar they spend they are killing kittens.

Cunts.

d-null · 01-23-2011, 01:03 PM

actually I think you can still get sued, sometimes legal decisions are made based on the ability to afford to fight or defend, those with deep pockets get much more respect, those with little resources often get crushed before even getting started, even if they are in the right

DWB · 01-23-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmon

So tell me NATHAN

If I surf your fucking controlled tube sites, and I happen across a full length video to let's say (for the sake of argument) ABC Amateur Porn Studio, and according to your OWN WORDS you know the are copyrighted... if i bring it to your attention, will you take it down?

I am not the copyright holder, but again, everything is. So if I complain about it, will you take it down?

No he won't. The copyright owner or someone acting on behalf of the copyright owner has to send the DMCA. Otherwise, I'd hire a warehouse of Filipinos and we'd all move past this piracy shit by Friday.

How do you know the true owner of that video doesn't want it there? How do you know it's not licensed and allowed to be there? You don't, and that's why they can't remove it if YOU ask them to.

So the next question is, how could the owner possibly keep track of ALL of his videos across ALL of these sites? He can't. This is the problem content owners face every day.

SmokeyTheBear · 01-23-2011, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

But are they making a profit?

I know in 2009 they were losing almost a 1/2 billion dollars that year. 2010 looked like they *may* turn a small profit but I never saw anything else about it.

the owner flies around in a personal jet , lives in a mansion, and has servants, everyone kisses their ass to be part of them, who cares what they make

tblocker · 01-23-2011, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

So the next question is, how could the owner possibly keep track of ALL of his videos across ALL of these sites? He can't. This is the problem content owners face every day.

Thats exactly what my FREE tool would do for you ... BUT, i think with Nathan comments, and if he finally answers my last questions about getting uploaded brazzers, rk, etc content and if i everytime i get a DMCA i get it down and like this forever to be legit and not being able to be sued, my service wont have any real impact, has no sense to be developed .... As i always thought it could be the online resource to help people file lawsuits against them, but it seems they have everything pretty well covered legally and it also sees there is not much people worried about this anymore as i only see two or three guys here answering, no real studio, etc ... So i guess my comminment to help and try to take this industry path away is not shared by who should be really worried about it, the content owners .... As i merely can't even file the DMCA ....

Harmon · 01-23-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tblocker

Thats exactly what my FREE tool would do for you ... BUT, i think with Nathan comments, and if he finally answers my last questions about getting uploaded brazzers, rk, etc content and if i everytime i get a DMCA i get it down and like this forever to be legit and not being able to be sued, my service wont have any real impact, has no sense to be developed .... As i always thought it could be the online resource to help people file lawsuits against them, but it seems they have everything pretty well covered legally and it also sees there is not much people worried about this anymore as i only see two or three guys here answering, no real studio, etc ... So i guess my comminment to help and try to take this industry path away is not shared by who should be really worried about it, the content owners .... As i merely can't even file the DMCA ....

I think I know where you are going with this, but the hard part would be convincing everybody to go straight Flash. It really is that simple, but for some reason people are hell bent on making the videos downloadable for porn "collectors".

There is plenty of software readily available that will track where your Flash videos are being played, and I know, it's free. It has the framework of being transformed into something even greater. It's just a matter of convincing everybody for the switch.

tblocker · 01-23-2011, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

the owner flies around in a personal jet , lives in a mansion, and has servants, everyone kisses their ass to be part of them, who cares what they make

But they can afford it, they loose there X but earn with google XXXXXXX, so its not a problem, the thing that worries me is that at any time we will be seeing this on porn too, but the other way round, they make enough from tubes, so they will start giving out for free the entire porn on regards of paid spots

I won't be surprised if i start seeing in the future on tube8, entire brazzers movies uploaded by them just to fresh up their libraries a little ;) Its their content, they can do with it whatever they want, i can't argue with that. Again it would be unfair .... Difficult argument as Nathan claimed, if it were only a couple, it could be a legit promotional marketing scheme .... The unfair competition argument actually is something i'm not even that sure i share it to be honest .... what bothers me is the copyright infringements .... but for what nathan said, it seems legal until i get the DMCA ... so ..... I'm just wondering what happens if my uploaders keep uploading the same content and i keep taking it down?

On a side note, what happens if someone uploads content from a minor or a common person that didn't want his image to be there because an angry ex boyfriend uploaded it? Can you be suid for that? Or again they could only file a DMCA and if you take that content down, its all ok and it is not liable for sueing?

gideongallery · 01-23-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmon

So tell me NATHAN

If I surf your fucking controlled tube sites, and I happen across a full length video to let's say (for the sake of argument) ABC Amateur Porn Studio, and according to your OWN WORDS you know the are copyrighted... if i bring it to your attention, will you take it down?

I am not the copyright holder, but again, everything is. So if I complain about it, will you take it down? We all know you are looking out for the best interest of the entire industry, not just manwin. (I never capitalize vermin)

so now you want the fucking right to censor someones commentary for content you don't actually own

for someone who entire business is built on free speech it amazing how little you respect it.

Nathan · 01-23-2011, 01:41 PM

Harmon, you do not understand it, sorry.. if you would at least discuss this with me in a somewhat civilized fashion like tblocker is, I would answer, but the way you talk, why bother?

tblocker, your example is flawed in the "encouraging" it... Our upload pages all say that you have to own licenses to the content to upload it. But, taking your statement and removing the encouraging part... so:

"so let me understand this, if i put online a tube site, and users upload all brazzers/bangbros/rk content for example, real users, so i build up a huge library with all this sites networks, until i get the DMCA, it would all be fine? and if after receiving the DMCA i put the content immediately down, it will be ok? i can't get sued then? Just one more question, what happens if the same content gets uploaded again after i took it down, and like this forever? If everytime i get a DMCA i take it down it would be legal what i'm going with my site?"

This statement is correct, yes.. and if this happened, all we would do is add you to the list of sites our team of people that look for our content on sites we do not put it ourselves checks every day. Because yes, we remove hundreds of videos from sites each day, including a few from tubes (although, as RycEric said himself, most infringing content comes up on non tube sites, by far).

Nathan · 01-23-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

No he won't. The copyright owner or someone acting on behalf of the copyright owner has to send the DMCA. Otherwise, I'd hire a warehouse of Filipinos and we'd all move past this piracy shit by Friday.

How do you know the true owner of that video doesn't want it there? How do you know it's not licensed and allowed to be there? You don't, and that's why they can't remove it if YOU ask them to.

So the next question is, how could the owner possibly keep track of ALL of his videos across ALL of these sites? He can't. This is the problem content owners face every day.

DWB, I would very much welcome a system that would perfectly automate the process. I think Vobile is such a system which is why we implemented it. If something else came, I would implement it too, and we would use it for Brazzers and Mofos...

What I would love to see is a system to fight against file sharing sites, much much more important than tubes in my opinion...

adultmobile · 01-23-2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

So the next question is, how could the owner possibly keep track of ALL of his videos across ALL of these sites? He can't. This is the problem content owners face every day.

Lots of the videos in the tubes are old and come from member area of sites closed since years, and their former owners have no wish or reason to file complaints. This include old VHS movies from amateur or small producers now closed. That's an huge amount of content that was produced commercially (also in russia, ukraine not in boureucratic way as in USA) but then no one of producers or closed-site owners would care or take the time to sue or just write a DMCA complaint even if they knew or seen it, they may make a laugh "oh look this is from that site I closed 10 years ago". Just digitize hundreds of european VHS cheap porn movies out of production from companies out of biz and you would get million hour long clips for a big tube with no likely anyone write any DMCA.

Different thing is content that is still in existing member areas from active companies and eventually also distribuded in DVD's, but how much of this material is in % in tubes?

tblocker · 01-23-2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

DWB, I would very much welcome a system that would perfectly automate the process. I think Vobile is such a system which is why we implemented it. If something else came, I would implement it too, and we would use it for Brazzers and Mofos...

What I would love to see is a system to fight against file sharing sites, much much more important than tubes in my opinion...

Honestly, with the budgets you people have, doing the file sharing thing its pretty easy if i do a quick thinking, as they actually share it without non fucking re-encoding or so, the troubles of doing my service against you ( tube8, etc ), is that you re-encode videos in lots of different formats, cut pieces, etc and makes it pretty dam difficult to come to a final fingerprinting algorithm to check scenes ( I was thinking on my service i would had to come out with several ones for different encoding formats ) .....

But just a heads up, if file sharing is like it was a few years ago ( I'm not using those service anymore .... ), you just need a soft that can crawl those sites, download a small footage of videos, take a frame of the movie and check at the bottom right for specific pixels your brazzers logo always has .... There you would get almost all true positives, maybe some false results, but would be the less. As simple as that as it sounds, any more or less skilled programmer can do a job like that easily .... You can find someone like that with your budgets ;) ( Yes, i think even your videos should be safe .... as it makes all us bad, you are playing both sides, but the legit side you are playing, you are doing it pretty dam well and respectable so i dont want brazzers content to be out there for free .... )

So, Nathan, if my principles changed, i could start letting uploads to my tube and people uploaded your content all the time you would daily send me DMCAs and that would be all? Even when they uploaded it everyday it gets down? Thats what you are saying? Don't you get pissed off with this??? I mean, there is a lot of people out there that i think will start doing it as your content rocks ...

Harmon · 01-23-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

So the next question is, how could the owner possibly keep track of ALL of his videos across ALL of these sites? He can't. This is the problem content owners face every day.

By being one of the "good Joes" and taking it down because it was brought to his attention. If it was intended to be there, respond as such. That would leave it up to the guy that reported it to contact and reconfirm.

Listen guys, go to Flash vids. Plain and simple. Inside your member areas. Let them stream it. What argument can you possibly have? They want to watch it later? They can. As long as they are a member. More money in the long run.

This is pretty simple. You give a kid a pail and a shovel (PC) and a sandbox (PORN) and he will dig all fucking day. Especially when all of the sand is free for the taking. He will make castles, drive his hot wheels through them, whatever.

Take the sandbox (PORN) away and all the kid is left with is a pail and a shovel (PC). He'll do whatever it takes to get back into that sandbox so he can use his tools (PC) and have the fun he wants to have.

tblocker · 01-23-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adultmobile

Lots of the videos in the tubes are old and come from member area of sites closed since years, and their former owners have no wish or reason to file complaints. This include old VHS movies from amateur or small producers now closed. That's an huge amount of content that was produced commercially (also in russia, ukraine not in boureucratic way as in USA) but then no one of producers or closed-site owners would care or take the time to sue or just write a DMCA complaint even if they knew or seen it, they may make a laugh "oh look this is from that site I closed 10 years ago". Just digitize hundreds of european VHS cheap porn movies out of production from companies out of biz and you would get million hour long clips for a big tube with no likely anyone write any DMCA.

Different thing is content that is still in existing member areas from active companies and eventually also distribuded in DVD's, but how much of this material is in % in tubes?

You know, after this thread, the funny thing is that i'm seriously thinking on chaging my marketing strategies .... I already knew all this, but honestly, the only thing that stopped me was a principles thing and MAYBE some legal actions stuff, but it seems legal actions can't be taken if user uploaded it for what i got from this thread?

Nathan · 01-23-2011, 02:15 PM

tblocker, we already do whatever we can... for what reason do you think people do not upload our content to other tubes? Of course they do....

And why get all upset over something I know I can not change? It makes no sense... I find a way to live with it...

Harmon · 01-23-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

Harmon, you do not understand it, sorry.. if you would at least discuss this with me in a somewhat civilized fashion like tblocker is, I would answer, but the way you talk, why bother?

Oh come on, is it cool if I start a manwin content owned tube site? Are you ok with that? I'll have no control of course. It's the user that does.

And here we are, two men in the same boat talking about the same thing. Money.

Yeah, you would sink my boat, but I can always build another boat. And I can do it in China. I can do it in the Netherlands. I can do it in fucking Antarctica. And I can do it cheap.

Is that the game you guys are calling out for?

EDIT: BTW, sig too big Nate

Harmon · 01-23-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

tblocker, we already do whatever we can... for what reason do you think people do not upload our content to other tubes? Of course they do....

And why get all upset over something I know I can not change? It makes no sense... I find a way to live with it...

Show me ONE live example of a full length Brazzers video on another tube that wasn't uploaded today. Not a 5 min clip with a pretty thumb, a real PIRATED Brazzers video. Come on, you must have one nate

01-22-2011, 05:14 PM	#1
tblocker Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 254	DMCA - Producers Selling Out - Tubes Legitment ? Hello people, i need some feedback here as i had come with an idea ( Its more than just an idea, i think i'm totally skilled into entirely developing it ) to automatically inform studios/producers when a tube site is streamming their footage ... And it doesn't need from the producer end a finger printing technology to be introduced, PLUS, it will be a free service, i just want to take this bastards down, its a principles thing, as plain as that. The question here is, things are pretty fucked and messed up, all the huge tubes are owned by the very same people that should be defending the industry of paysites by revenueing themselves from dating/cams and doing serious bucks, if this is not the case, they are moving into doing arrangements with big studios in order to add Vobile fingerprinting software to avoid their full movies and exchange it for a small teasers ( Which i can't complain about it as its a legit way of selling stuff ), but we all know how they all grew by stealling everybodies content from scratch and now are trying to get legit. Right now, they are well established and doing serious bucks, my question here is, they are somehow trying to get LEGIT, they are cutting up deals with all the big studios, and they know small studios don't spend the time or have the money to go against them. So, my questions here are: 1. Are there any stupid producers out there selling their whole footage to tubes to stream it LEGALLY and don't caring the hurt this makes to the industry and themselves by just cashing up some huge ammount of money quick in exchange of the license? 2. Someone really has stats of how much of the big tubes library is really ILLEGAL? By ILLEGAL i mean that they are streaming it without the producers required license ( I'm afraid at this point they may had bought lots of stupid small producers? ) I mean, i don't want to spend a lot of time developing this FREE thing if it wont hurt tubes operation .... I guess here the DMCA guys will have to enter which are contanstly checking for illegal content on tubes ... I just want to leave one fact clear here ... My service will be FREE and will be meant to be used by a tool for DMCA guys to make their work faster .... I'm not willing to profit from this if its being done. I want the fuckers out of the biz, plain and simple, and i want to do something about it, not just bla bla bla on a board and sit back and keep seeing how they manage to keep becoming more and more legit. So, i need stats from legit parties to make sure i wont spend a lot of time on something that wont help at all or will have really small impact on tubes operation. Thoughts?

01-22-2011, 05:33 PM	#2
Harmon ( ͡ʘ╭͜ʖ╮͡ʘ) Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 20,006	Fact is, Pandora is out of the box. If you are asking if the "tubes" buy legal content? Yes they do. Some don't, who fucking cares? If you are asking if they have tons of "illegal" content on them? Yes they do. The fact of the matter is that the pornography game, as far as time goes back has always been a somewhat small operation. Let me explain. 1980s BBS Days: gifs that took 17 hours to load on 300 baud modems made guys thousands; took one horny kid 1990-something-ish, internet born as well as flatbed scanners - again, something a teenager could make a couple of hundred grand a year off of just rescanning the shit he has jerked off to a million times. Anyone with a cam can make HUGE money with "amateurs" and a domain name. 900 billing is fucking HUGE! I know that is an incomplete synopsis of the entire history of porn online, but my point being... Pan away to 2010-2011. Most of those same guys that were used to pointing and shooting at local bitches for 100k+ per year are feeling the brunt. It's no longer a small guy's industry. Corporate has taken over. It sucks, I feel it... kind of. Legal costs would be through the roof, and most are plain out lazy. There are no definitive laws regarding user uploaded content. Some can complain about DMCA laws, but when it comes down to it, once again - Pandora is out of the box. That leaves the content producers... the little guys used to operating out of their 2 bedroom apartments in the 90s to either: A) Fight them at the cost of years life's savings B) They are already broke because the same guys did too much coke and bought shit C) License it out and pay bitches less D) fuck "X" number of licenses, let's just sell that 40 min video to 10,000 people if I can - I'll blame it one the tubes stealing my shit Any way you cut it, something needs to be done. It's sad and it is totally the end of an era. Even the major vets on this board, not naming names, but they try to pull their "clout" and it looks stupid. It's embarrassing actually. It's a big money game now, and right now all of the money is only going to a few selected corporations. One of those corporations is not me. Good luck. Last edited by Harmon; 01-22-2011 at 05:34 PM..

01-22-2011, 09:29 PM	#9
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	hard to convince people when they have their mind set on a method.. lets do a little history on "tubes" who is the biggest , most succesfull, top aligned tube ever ? youtube... how did they get their start ? people uploaded illegal content right and left .. how did they avoid getting their asses sued ? they started making deals with various studios, diluting their collection of illegal content with legit titles , user content etc while making the dmca process slow and laborious to slowly remove illegal conent __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

01-23-2011, 01:17 AM	#17
Nathan Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,108	tblocker, do not want to crash your thread or anything... But your first logic flaw here is that you are trying to sue people for something that is legal. Of course, if you think its not legal, go and try to sue, but I will bet quite a bit of money that you will not win. Also, one thing... if you really think people owning both ends of the stick, like we do, have any interest in destroying one end of it which will obviously destroy the whole stick in the end, then oh well, what can I say.... there are others out there, that only own tube sites, which you should be much more concerned with. Regarding your unfair competition... at what point would it be fair in your opinion? If it cost $1? or $5? Or $10? What about Videobox.com, or our own Moviebox.com .... I am sure you will at some point come in and claim that is unfair competition too, since you can join for $19.99 and get more full length movies than any tube on the planet has... in HD too! Unfair competition is a very hard thing to prove, you are making it out to be easier than it is... BTW, since you keep wondering, we spend 7 figures on content licenses specifically for the tubes regularly. __________________ "Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right." - Charlie Munger

01-23-2011, 03:06 AM	#25
pr0phet Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,041	tubes are the biggest buyers of content. if a tube site comes and says i will buy your whole line of content but i want to put it on my whole network of sites.... not many producers would say no. not very many webmasters out there actively buying content.. __________________ Pr0phet

01-22-2011, 06:00 PM	#6
Harmon ( ͡ʘ╭͜ʖ╮͡ʘ) Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 20,006	You are failing to realize the problem is the proverbial "web2.0" (supposed) user submitted content, and what is honestly manageable. The big production companies can do it. And they can enforce it. It's called cahoots. I challenge you to drop around to all of the big tubes, hell go to the smaller ones. No tiny ones, but anything 50-100k plus traffic a day. Send me a link with a Brazzers full length. Not a 5-7 minute clip. I want a 30-40 minute plus movie. And then, if you can find it? Post it. At that point, let's count the hours until it's gone. If it doesn't go down fast? Guess who own the site - but then again, sill y me - they don't even give their own content away.

01-22-2011, 09:56 PM	#10
marketsmart HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sunnybrook Institution for the Criminally Insane Posts: 20,419	until the law is changed, you are pissing in the wind... better to join them then fight them.... .

01-23-2011, 01:19 AM	#18
xenigo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 8,067	http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/realice

01-23-2011, 02:12 AM	#21
RycEric Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,313

01-23-2011, 02:27 AM	#22
KillerK Confirmed User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,406	he who has the most money makes the rules.

01-23-2011, 03:16 AM	#26
Nathan Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,108	Eric, very different words you post here than you usually post in any of the threads talking about me or my corp... interesting remarks coming from you... tblocker, "Copyright infringement tubes" can never be legal, by definition of the words you just used. But, not all tubes are "copyright infringement". Ours are not, because we follow DMCA rules. The unfair competition one has nothing to do with legal or illegal. Brazzers upsells to all kinds of sites. Moviebox is just one of them. They all give the user something different. They are not clear competition, they are extensions to what we offer. Upsells are an important part of member value... people that pay for porn jump from site to site. The tighter the upsell network, the more likely it is that they stay with our products or come back to them at some point. You say if I can afford it to offer the service for $1 per month, I should do it... but free I should not? If I can afford offering the service for free, why is that so much worse than offering it for $1? Hardly makes sense to me. It is not unfair competition, its not like we use the tubes as a loss-leader, we do make money with them. I own Manwin, I have nothing to do with Mansef other than I bought all their assets last year. And yes, we own big tubes and we own big paysite networks too. We simply have a difference of opinion as to how much harm our tubes do to the industry. We protect our exclusive content, but we have to protect it much more on non-tube sites than on tubes... Regularly means regularly, it changes... If it were yearly I would say that. Us licensing content has nothing to do with us uploading it. Also, the claim that we have no amateur content is wrong, we do have that. The part you are not understanding in general, as so many others do not... COPYRIGHTED content does not automatically become INFRINGING on a tube site. The upload MIGHT be infringing right away, but the tube site is not. Content becomes infringing as soon as we get a DMCA notice. Before that, it might very well be copyrighted, but even if we know its copyrighted, that does not make it illegal content! __________________ "Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right." - Charlie Munger

01-23-2011, 05:15 AM	#28
jonnydoe Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: USA Posts: 543	"Before that, it might very well be copyrighted, but even if we know its copyrighted, that does not make it illegal content!" This is what pisses people off Nathan. As, I have said before the whole DMCA thing was poorly written and I will add that is being abused. The spirit of the law was for ordinary people to be able to share freely on the internet to a point and gives a remedy when they share content that is copyrighted. It was not written to allow the companies themselves to upload copyrighted content and say catch me if you can. I suppose it is a question of ethics. __________________ Want a Sponsor that really PAYS?!?!?!?! I&C#Q 3-0/2 7+3.3 0=5\|2

01-23-2011, 11:13 AM	#30
Nathan Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,108	LOL... no, you do not get it... It has nothing to do with it being copyrighted content... essentially, EVERYTHING is copyrighted, some MIGHT be registered copyright, although most things are not... But that does not make it illegal.. you just do not get what I am saying obviously by the comments you (harmon and jonnydoe) posted... For example, any content piece we hold a license for, and a 3rd party uploads, there is NO REASON we should remove it... but yet, you would NEVER EVER find out if we owned a license or not, so all the ranting about all the in YOUR opinion illegal content, is complete stupidity.. The _ONLY PERSON_ that knows if the item might be on the site legit or not is the ULTIMATE OWNER of the copyright... and THUS he can send DMCA notices to remove content which in his opinion should not be there... One of the reasons why Viacom had a HORRIBLY BAD CASE against youtube was that people FROM VIACOM uploaded content to youtube! This is what people need to start realizing and understanding what this ultimately means... and I am not going to teach you all what you should pay lawyers to explain to you... __________________ "Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right." - Charlie Munger

01-23-2011, 01:03 PM	#35
d-null . . . Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NY Posts: 13,724	actually I think you can still get sued, sometimes legal decisions are made based on the ability to afford to fight or defend, those with deep pockets get much more respect, those with little resources often get crushed before even getting started, even if they are in the right

01-23-2011, 01:41 PM	#42
Nathan Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,108	Harmon, you do not understand it, sorry.. if you would at least discuss this with me in a somewhat civilized fashion like tblocker is, I would answer, but the way you talk, why bother? tblocker, your example is flawed in the "encouraging" it... Our upload pages all say that you have to own licenses to the content to upload it. But, taking your statement and removing the encouraging part... so: "so let me understand this, if i put online a tube site, and users upload all brazzers/bangbros/rk content for example, real users, so i build up a huge library with all this sites networks, until i get the DMCA, it would all be fine? and if after receiving the DMCA i put the content immediately down, it will be ok? i can't get sued then? Just one more question, what happens if the same content gets uploaded again after i took it down, and like this forever? If everytime i get a DMCA i take it down it would be legal what i'm going with my site?" This statement is correct, yes.. and if this happened, all we would do is add you to the list of sites our team of people that look for our content on sites we do not put it ourselves checks every day. Because yes, we remove hundreds of videos from sites each day, including a few from tubes (although, as RycEric said himself, most infringing content comes up on non tube sites, by far). __________________ "Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right." - Charlie Munger

01-23-2011, 02:15 PM	#48
Nathan Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,108	tblocker, we already do whatever we can... for what reason do you think people do not upload our content to other tubes? Of course they do.... And why get all upset over something I know I can not change? It makes no sense... I find a way to live with it... __________________ "Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right." - Charlie Munger