Any new site producers successful in today?s market? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Pseudonymous · 01-06-2013, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

ok - dont get me wrong - i am not argueing that they are a paysite company - thats just a small (but maybe expanding) part of their business

i just named them cause they grew exponantially in the last years - as an example that you can still do it

Well course, old companies that made good money and continue investing in adult and expanding their business for sure. You have worked out the kinks, exercised trial and error, gained knowledge for years, met the right people, made money when it was easier, etc etc

Nevermind that, consider other benefits from being in the adult industry early, not only did you make money but the bank you deal with knows this, they see your income, your tax documents show what you earn, all this comes into play when you end up growing another adult business, you can take loans, you can find partnerships, you can find silent investors, etc

And this guy definitely did not invest only 50-100k into his business. plus even the MINIMAL chance he did, this wasn't his first venture in adult

So i think it holds true that there isn't a new company, only old companies expanding and growing.

MaDalton · 01-06-2013, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

Well course, old companies that made good money and continue investing in adult and expanding their business for sure. You have worked out the kinks, exercised trial and error, gained knowledge for years, met the right people, made money when it was easier, etc etc

Nevermind that, consider other benefits from being in the adult industry early, not only did you make money but the bank you deal with knows this, they see your income, your tax documents show what you earn, all this comes into play when you end up growing another adult business, you can take loans, you can find partnerships, you can find silent investors, etc

And this guy definitely did not invest 50-100k into his business.

i completely agree - hence my first post in the thread: don't bother when you dont have the traffic already

or really deep pockets full of play money that you dont need

Pseudonymous · 01-06-2013, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i completely agree - hence my first post in the thread: don't bother when you dont have the traffic already

or really deep pockets full of play money that you dont need

Yeah but that makes it sound too simple, like if you had some blogs and some tgps or a small tube , that you should throw up some paysites. You need to be more than just traffic. having the ability to market is a must but its such a small part of the whole picture. Id say experience with working on paysites would be a bigger thing. Also another thing to take into account when they got that traffic, was it at a time when they just threw up a site and the traffic came easily?

I know alot of people here think 10k/day site is big. So people are probably seeing this and thinking, well i have alot of traffic, maybe i should give it a shot.

I'd say 95 percent of affiliates ive met who have traffic couldn't successfully launch a paysite nowadays.

And most people who have traffic, well they could launch their own product but it'll still only be one product of the many you advertise on your website so its not like you having your own traffic is going to be huge, youre only one person. And its not as if you produce enough to completely fill a site, theres hardly any sites dedicated to a single sponsor, let alone site. You'd need to basically be as big as freeones to where your own traffic is big enough to matter

But if youre saying, you better atleast have that ability, then sure. heh

I think a more accurate statement would be, you better have a long history of experience in alot of areas in adult. (because by saying that, it generally covers people that have/had traffic)

MaDalton · 01-06-2013, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

Yeah but that makes it sound too simple, like if you had some blogs and some tgps , that you should throw up some paysites. You need to be more than just traffic. I'd having the ability to market is one must but its such a small part of the whole picture. Then take into account when they got that traffic, was it at a time when they just threw up a site and it came easily?

I know alot of people here think 10k/day site is big. So people are probably seeing this and thinking, well i have alot of traffic, maybe i should give it a shot.

I'd say 95 percent of affiliates ive met who have traffic couldn't successfully launch a paysite nowadays.

And most people who have traffic, well they could launch their own product but it'll still only be one product of the many you advertise on your website so its not like you having your own traffic is going to be huge, youre only one person. And its not as if you produce enough to completely fill a site, theres hardly any sites dedicated to a single sponsor, let alone site.

But if youre saying, you better atleast have that ability, then sure. heh

sorry, i am just a producer, not an expert on traffic, otherwise my paysites would be way more successful

but lets make a little calculation for beginners, correct me when i'm wrong:

lets say i have a paysite and in todays times i have heard about conversion ratios of 1:2000 from first page to signup

and lets say i need 10 signups a day to be profitable - not counting rebills and shooting my own content

thats 20,000 to my site and i heard that a CTR of 1% is quite good already so my traffic network would need at least 2 million uniques a day?

Pseudonymous · 01-06-2013, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

sorry, i am just a producer, not an expert on traffic, otherwise my paysites would be way more successful

but lets make a little calculation for beginners, correct me when i'm wrong:

lets say i have a paysite and in todays times i have heard about conversion ratios of 1:2000 from first page to signup

and lets say i need 10 signups a day to be profitable - not counting rebills and shooting my own content

thats 20,000 to my site and i heard that a CTR of 1% is quite good already so my traffic network would need at least 2 million uniques a day?

Oh sorry , yes you are correct, if thats your CTR and youre the only one driving traffic.

Impressions are easy to get though. Theres alot of places to get exposure.

And yes hats my point, thats how big you have to be to where your own traffic matters, you will always need to rely on other people

So having your own traffic doesn't really matter all that much unless you are atop of the best in that category but it atleast shows you have the understanding and learned some stuff along the way, so you can translate those skills into your paysites.

MaDalton · 01-06-2013, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

click through rate is how many click through, so you'd need 2,000,000 impressions, not traffic.

ok, learned something again

still sounds like a lot

Pseudonymous · 01-06-2013, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

ok, learned something again

still sounds like a lot

Yeah sorry didn't read your post carefully, but yes impressions and traffic is different, if youre talking about CTR, youre talking about how many see it and click through it.

If your video/content/ad isn't on the front page, your site that contains the traffic would need to more than 2m visitors to give you 2,000,000 impressions

CTR is 'impressions - clicks through'

Example, i have a solo girl affiliate site, i get 25-30k a day in traffic to that one and when i post a new gallery of one of my models, it doesn't get 25-30k impressions because they have to click on the thumb to goto the gallery before the CTR rate comes into effect. Well the CTR to the paysite that is. So what im saying, sometimes you would even need more than 2,000,000 a day to your network.

BareBacked · 01-06-2013, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xxaru Media

I?m curious to know how many newbie producers have created member?s site startups that have actually made any money in todays market? And I'm not talking rent money... I mean serious money. I?m talking people who got in the game within like the last couple years.

I ask this question because I?ve been behind 2 different member site startups within the last 3 years and neither of them have had worthwhile returns. I?ve also watched numerous other member site startups crash and burn hard over the last few years. Yeah, there are a plethora of reasons as to why all these sites ?may? not be making serious money, but to me it seems like the market has tanked to the point that the new guys have almost no chance to get in the game and compete against the big dogs.

I hear people all the time considering getting into the biz and starting their own members site, etc. and the only advice I have for them is ?don?t do it? cause the potential for return is no longer worth it. Now I may be wrong, but I welcome anyone that can say otherwise.

the dudes with the .xxx domain names have been killing it
great idea with the content etc

MaDalton · 01-06-2013, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BareBacked

the dudes with the .xxx domain names have been killing it
great idea with the content etc

thats JT - as mentioned on the first page

Barefootsies · 01-06-2013, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

I'd say 95 percent of affiliates ive met who have traffic couldn't successfully launch a paysite nowadays.

Most affiliates never learned how to actually CONVERT A SALE in the first place.

They just threw up some nudie pix, and thought that surfers would just go sign up. Which they did for a long time. It took minimal or no skills, and for the better part of a decade they could get by doing little more than the next ape. Now you actually have to have a few bucks to your name, and some skills. Once you had 10,000 affiliates with the same exact galleries, chasing down the same exact traffic, going after the same exact surfers, you more a less starting thinning the herd and raising the bar. Adapt or die.

If you do not know how to sell, and convert traffic, you do not belong in this business.

MaDalton · 01-06-2013, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

Yeah sorry didn't read your post carefully, but yes impressions and traffic is different, if youre talking about CTR, youre talking about how many see it and click through it.

If your video/content/ad isn't on the front page, your site that contains the traffic would need to more than 2m visitors to give you 2,000,000 impressions

CTR is 'impressions - clicks through'

Example, i have a solo girl affiliate site, i get 25-30k a day in traffic to that one and when i post a new gallery of one of my models, it doesn't get 25-30k impressions because they have to click on the thumb to goto the gallery before the CTR rate comes into effect. Well the CTR to the paysite that is. So what im saying, sometimes you would even need more than 2,000,000 a day to your network.

thanks for the explanation

so i am not so far off with my calculation of traffic to get 10 lousy signups a day?

Pseudonymous · 01-06-2013, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

thanks for the explanation

so i am not so far off with my calculation of traffic to get 10 lousy signups a day?

Well I dont think its all as simple as that.

But the general theory that you need a TON of traffic to be able a good amount of sales for yourself is true. which is all it comes down to

And yes your content has to reach millions+ consistently to get 10 signups a day. because the smaller sites with higher ctr rates dont have as much traffic and you need multiple paths because if you used the same paths, the ctr rate would drop alot (you would run that well dry in a sense). the more avenues, most likely the longer you'll get sales for. but with the more avenues, the worse ratio and ctr because you'd start having to use sites with a lower ctr that aren't quite as targeted

basically if you want to use a few paths and get a handful of sales a day, you could do it yourself and keep ctr rate real low. but to reach the next level (and actually come out profiting to a point where you would call the program a success 10+ sales a day), you need to drive impressions up to millions+

I think the gap between small and medium is pretty big because you can always goto a few sources to get a few sales, but given the lack of obvious places to promote, you really need to know what youre doing to find the other 5-10 sales/day (thats when you start seeing ctr rate get worse)

same goes for ratio. yeah its possible to produce sales on a good ratio and low traffic but once you get alot of traffic, you'll never keep that up, once you reach a successful level, the more saturated your content is and your ratios end up being much much worse but it doesn't matter because in the end, you see more sales.

scubadiver626 · 01-06-2013, 10:07 PM

Learn how to sell first. Be a capable earning affiliate, and If you can kick ass, your success potential will be way higher.

Pseudonymous · 01-06-2013, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scubadiver626

Learn how to sell first. Be a capable earning affiliate, and If you can kick ass, your success potential will be way higher.

Basically

Especially given how hard it is nowadays, if you can succeed as an affiliate these days (from scratch), you would stand a pretty decent chance.

Xxaru Media · 01-06-2013, 10:28 PM

I still look at the overall numbers. Even if you came in and learned the ropes as an affiliate, you look at the time investment you put into getting to the point where you can carry things over to the building of a pay site. On top of that, you still have to put up a lot of cash, and all for what? You?re looking at a limited return ratio, which could get even worse over time in the industry. I don?t know who in their right mind would want to jump in with those numbers unless you found a way to produce the content for free.

Pseudonymous · 01-06-2013, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xxaru Media

I still look at the overall numbers. Even if you came in and learned the ropes as an affiliate, you look at the time investment you put into getting to the point where you can carry things over to the building of a pay site. On top of that, you still have to put up a lot of cash, and all for what? You’re looking at a limited return ratio, which could get even worse over time in the industry. I don’t know who in their right mind would want to jump in with those numbers unless you found a way to produce the content for free.

I think it is worth it, if i wasn't in the industry, i'd be doing whatever I could to get in it. I dont take this industry for granted. The freedom it allows for can hardly be matched. And once youre in, the room to grow for the talented people is pretty endless. Well you've assessed the current year and it probably wont be too much different in 2 years, i'd say it wont get worse than 10 percent a year. So if it makes sense now, you get in, and worry about that when the time comes. Once youre in and making profits, theres alot more doors you can open to make up for the 10 percent loss/year.

Webmaster Advertising · 01-06-2013, 11:33 PM

I do find it interesting that consistently over the past 12 years of being around the industry the entry level to start a new paysite is always $50-$100k whenever a thread like this pops up.

Pseudonymous · 01-06-2013, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

I do find it interesting that consistently over the past 12 years of being around the industry the entry level to start a new paysite is always $50-$100k whenever a thread like this pops up.

That wasnt mentioned as a start up cost now. He asked about that number

I actually said its more than that

And launching costs will never change a TON because model/producer costs, etc - they've actually all remained quite similar in comparison to the drop that profits have seen. as they should, its not like theyre the ones making all the money

the owner sucks up the profits that come with the decline of the industry. and where the producers feel the effect, they simply just dont find quite as much work but when they do work, they still make somewhat similar so for us paying them so we're still paying just as much to startup

Webmaster Advertising · 01-07-2013, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

I actually said its more than that

Pure comedy gold

You really think someone couldnt join the industry today and launch an affiliate program for less than $10k that actually made money?

I'd even go one step further and say they could launch a program for less than $10k and break even in the first 3-6 months.

01-07-2013, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

I dont think thats the 'yeah but' - how about yeah but they came in with an insane budget if they just entered with that many sites with that production value. Their profit margin and success, well you dont even know how theyre doing, theyre clearly spending way more than any other startup though, so what they need to pull in is MUCH MUCH greater.

The second one, the people managing that program have no ties to running any other paysites? Hard to believe.

If you want to come in with a million dollar budget and pay all the right people to get things done, sure. ;) Enough money and the possibilities are endless

I just whois'd the domain and its registered under Gamma Entertainment?

So how are they new? A new program doesn't equal new

I dont think hes asking if a company can launch another site, i believe hes talking about can a producer startup a paysite. Without putting your entire site in somebody elses hands who have done this 20 years

Almost everything is a company opening a new brand nowadays. I wouldn't consider a new brand a new business

Gamma simply do the billing for me, thats why the domains are in their name, to conform with V&MC.

For the record, I started with 2 sites back in Aug '11 and then launched new sites as/when the profits from the original sites were there to do so. I didnt start with the $1m budget either, it was considerably smaller

We are just launching our 8th site in a couple of weeks and plan to roll out a further 6 exclusive sites this year. I like to run a self sufficient company, quickly as possible.

I get around 90% of my traffic from the tubes and convert it. Its not rocket science how I do it, I even wrote a guide that tells you how I get my traffic. You can check out my brands on YouPorn Channels: http://www.youporn.com/channels/most_popular/alltime/ My brands are #1, 2, 4, 5, 8 and 21 most popular of all time (since records started in 2007). It all in my guide!!

01-07-2013, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

yeah - but he knows how to generate signups - and lots of them

Pseudonymous · 01-07-2013, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Pure comedy gold

You really think someone couldnt join the industry today and launch an affiliate program for less than $10k that actually made money?

I'd even go one step further and say they could launch a program for less than $10k and break even in the first 3-6 months.

Why are you trying to spin things into a debate where youre correct. The debate isn't about that. Its not about whether somebody can succeed or not. There was a specific question. Can a producer launch a website off his content and make money via the paysite/program route if hes new to the industry.

Firstly are you new?

Secondly are you going to produce the content or buy non exclusive content?

ReggieDurango · 01-07-2013, 12:23 AM

Woah, missed that you mentioned erospov.com - yeah I shoot content for the site. (I am obviously biased but) I think the content it alright.. shame that there is so little traffic to a site with quality content

Pseudonymous · 01-07-2013, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruseful

Gamma simply do the billing for me, thats why the domains are in their name, to conform with V&MC.

For the record, I started with 2 sites back in Aug '11 and then launched new sites as/when the profits from the original sites were there to do so. I didnt start with the $1m budget either, it was considerably smaller

We are just launching our 8th site in a couple of weeks and plan to roll out a further 6 exclusive sites this year. I like to run a self sufficient company, quickly as possible.

I get around 90% of my traffic from the tubes and convert it. Its not rocket science how I do it, I even wrote a guide that tells you how I get my traffic. You can check out my brands on YouPorn Channels: http://www.youporn.com/channels/most_popular/alltime/ My brands are #1, 2, 4, 5, 8 and 21 most popular of all time (since records started in 2007). It all in my guide!!

1 million was a random large number that i just threw out there. I think the point still remains you need an extremely large budget. ;) I have seen your content. I know for a fact that wasn't on a cheap budget. And before these 2 paysites, what were you doing? Did you hire anybody out the gate?

Even if it were say, a few hundred thousand dollars and you indeed paid that out of your pocket, thats classified as a big budget porn site.

Then there are other things to consider like partners to help decrease startup cost, are you the only one with any ownership rights? i dont expect you to answer that if you dont like and truthfully, i dont know you so i wouldn't really 100 percent believe even if you said you didn't partner up with anybody to keep costs down. not alot of people have that kind of money in their pocket

Pseudonymous · 01-07-2013, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReggieDurango

Woah, missed that you mentioned erospov.com - yeah I shoot content for the site. (I am obviously biased but) I think the content it alright.. shame that there is so little traffic to a site with quality content

I haven't taken a look at it, probably a good site, just hasn't got too far off the ground yet is all. Maybe it will, maybe it wont, not sure. To be honest, i wasn't judging, just thought i'd mention its current traffic numbers.

Ive seen a couple real good sites in that niche that didn't have a real big budget backing it not take off that well recently. Its a tough one with artsy sites like sex-art, nubilefilms sinking money galore into them and its not generic porn, its still a niche so when theres companies that have most of the traffic, its tough. especially since it will never be cheap to produce that quality

ReggieDurango · 01-07-2013, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

I haven't taken a look at it, probably a good site, just hasn't got too far off the ground yet is all. Maybe it will, maybe it wont, not sure. To be honest, i wasn't judging, just thought i'd mention its current traffic numbers.

Ive seen a couple real good sites in that niche that didn't have a real big budget backing it not take off that well recently

Yeah I hear ya on that!

01-07-2013, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

1 million was a random large number that i just threw out there. I think the point still remains you need an extremely large budget. ;) I have seen your content. I know for a fact that wasn't on a cheap budget. And before these 2 paysites, what were you doing? Did you hire anybody out the gate?

I hired a cameraman, a photographer, a webmaster and part time developer. Outsourced the design/build and launched the sites. I made my initial investment back in 3 months and always reinvest profits into building the company. I have over 30 staff now.

CurrentlySober · 01-07-2013, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

I concede your point that someone coming in new is going to have a harder time developing a full blown traditional affiliate program of paysites from ground zero. But at the same time if they have the cash in the coffers, it can be done assuming they have some level of traffic or can generate some.

Second, you over emphasize the need of them having to do an affiliate program, or their value in the adult industry circa 2013. The old affiliate models is dead, and their are few whales out there any more. The business model for driving sign ups has changed. Affiliate programs learned back around 2007 that paying heavy ransoms to affiliates was killing them even before the credit crunch of 2008. It was talked about at conferences and in seminars. Nothing new there.

All of this being said, the bar has been raised for newbies coming in who do not know shit. That I do agree on. But it does not mean it can't be done, and you can't still make a decent living in adult. Someone can easily start out doing a single clip store of original content, develop a following over a period of time, launch a pay site later, and grow it out from there. It would take time, assuming they did it this way versus what you're talking about as the traditional paysite/affiliate model, but it can be done and they can make a decent living doing it.

That does not mean they will be making millions and living like MTV cribs circa 2001. However, we are talking about a decent wage by comparison to the rest of the world. Someone doing what I just described and making $3-5k/month is making more than 99% of GFY posters doing something they love or want to do. It most places in the U.S. that is decent money to live on.

While I agree you make some good points on a newbie coming in, and what it takes to make it. Not everyone coming in is looking to be the next Manwin with a full blow affiliate program and network of sites. Many are just looking for living wage where they can be their own boss and feed their family.

What he said...

01-07-2013, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

Then there are other things to consider like partners to help decrease startup cost, are you the only one with any ownership rights? i dont expect you to answer that if you dont like and truthfully, i dont know you so i wouldn't really 100 percent believe even if you said you didn't partner up with anybody to keep costs down. not alot of people have that kind of money in their pocket

No partners, just me.

Pseudonymous · 01-07-2013, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruseful

No partners, just me.

Well given what you said, i guess ill give you credit with one of the only new companies in adult to be successful post 2010. Though i did say it was possible with a big budget, and i'd be curious to just get an idea of the type of money it takes somebody to succeed. I think it would be very enlightening to show them that the only company we can come together as a group and find is one that ended a half mil or whatever it may be. I also assume you had an ever bigger cushion, no way does one go in with a big budget and not have more incase fall short. So spending 300k, you better have atleast 400k, etc

My point was never that it was impossible. That its unlikely and that i couldn't think of any

I'm still curious of your history in adult pre 2011. Its hard to imagine somebody coming in and just having this kind of understanding of promotion and affiliate program/paysite success.

If youre leaving out the fact you worked for another company, well that is quite a big thing to leave out. Since my point was that the growth in this industry have been from people within ;)

Webmaster Advertising · 01-07-2013, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

Can a producer launch a website off his content and make money via the paysite/program route if hes new to the industry.

Yes.

Quote:

Firstly are you new?

No.

Quote:

Secondly are you going to produce the content or buy non exclusive content?

I'm not going to do either, but if a PRODUCER is going to launch a paysite, I would image they already have shit tons of their own content they can use to launch sites...

Content sells, CCBill is cheap to setup (even with the $750 Visa and upcoming $500 mastercard fee) and traffic is free (for all intents and purposes) if he were to post about his new 50/50 revshare program using EXCLUSIVE content on boards like GFY.

He already has content (being a producer) all he needs is a few tube style tour headers (which are around $150 a pop if ordered in bulk) and he's all set.

By my calculations, thats potentially $1350 for processing and lets say he launched 10 sites, thats another $1500 so, $2850 total.

Drop another $1-$2000 on filler content and he'd have a site with a members area to rival pretty much any PPS program in the marketplace right now, at least so far as content went.

The rest he'd be able to figure out as he went along and, I would still say with less than $5k invested in his new affiliate program, he/she would break even within 3-6 months.

That figure is a far cry from $50-$100k plus.

We both know affiliates are fickle, they'd throw elephant shit at a wall to make a buck if they thought it would stick.

Pseudonymous · 01-07-2013, 12:50 AM

Ive talked to a ton of producers in the past couple years, i really dont think most of them are sitting on a ton of content like you say, especially not content they have the rights to sell. If youre a producer, most content you have that is of quality, was shot to provide to somebody, and you most likely provided exclusive rights.

If its content youve been supplying with no exclusive rights, youre now working with saturated content and no experience. Even if you startup cheap, it wont go anywhere most likely

However in this magical land where producers are sitting on all this unused non saturated content, sure they could do it for cheaper ;)

01-07-2013, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

I'm still curious of your history in adult pre 2011. Its hard to imagine somebody coming in and just having this kind of understanding of promotion and affiliate program/paysite success.

If youre leaving out the fact you worked for another company, well that is quite a big thing to leave out. Since my point was that the growth in this industry have been from people within ;)

Sorry, I naturally assumed you would have read my background on www.ReallyUsefulCash.com

Pseudonymous · 01-07-2013, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruseful

Sorry, I naturally assumed you would have read my background on www.ReallyUsefulCash.com

" Backed by over 4 years of data from running YouPorn.com and managing over 2,000 brands in the YouPorn.com Content Publishing Platform"

? lol so what this is telling me

with a big budget, and a history of running youporn (one of the worlds biggest tube sites) with inside knowledge of how to convert on tubes, years of adult experience,

you can succeed post 2010

Im not taking anythign away from you, absolutely fantastic work. But you have to remember this isn't a thread about whether its possible to succeed, its whether its possible for a newbie to succeed.

i simply question you being a newcomer/new company with a medium budget

Webmaster Advertising · 01-07-2013, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

Ive talked to a ton of producers in the past couple years, i really dont think most of them are sitting on a ton of content like you say, especially not content they have the rights to sell. If youre a producer, most content you have that is of quality, was shot to provide to somebody, and you most likely provided exclusive rights.

If its content youve been supplying with no exclusive rights, youre now working with saturated content and no experience. Even if you startup cheap, it wont go anywhere most likely

Some producers actually do still keep DVD distribution rights for stuff they shoot.

Some producers actually produce their own stuff not for selling to other existing websites, but to broker on content stores.

Content is always going to be salable, whether exclusively shot last month, or non-exclusive from 10 years ago, there is always a market segment for content in any genre of any age. If they produced it, chances are they understand that genre of content and most likely will have the basic ability to at least present it in a way that is appealing to that market audience.

Then there is the angle that lets say he is just producing for other companies, he's a content producer, he has access to potentially hundreds of models, all the equipment needed and sets, he could easily kick out enough content to throw on a paysite tour in a week at least to get a site launched to affiliates, then during the first month, I'm sure he'd be able to do at least 1 other shoot per site to get next months update in place... If he was smart about it, he could do one shoot to cover multiple niches which would also off-set his production costs greatly...

Lets not forget we work in the adult industry where perception and reality differ greatly from person to person and perception is typically what the industry operates on.

01-07-2013, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

" Backed by over 4 years of data from running YouPorn.com and managing over 2,000 brands in the YouPorn.com Content Publishing Platform"

? lol so what this is telling me

with a big budget, and a history of running youporn (one of the worlds biggest tube sites) with inside knowledge of how to convert on tubes, years of adult experience,

you can succeed post 2010

Im not taking anythign away from you, absolutely fantastic work. But you have to remember this isn't a thread about whether its possible to succeed, its whether its possible for a newbie to succeed.

I didn't jump in on the thread to say that I was newbie and I succeeded, I only posted to point out why Gamma was on the domains registration, and then answered subsequent questions, so i wasn't the one that put my own name out there (cheers MaDalton lol)

Also, that "inside knowledge" you speak about is all in the guide that I wrote. You can find it here: https://content.porntube.com . I follow this 100%.

Pseudonymous · 01-07-2013, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Some producers actually do still keep DVD distribution rights for stuff they shoot.

Some producers actually produce their own stuff not for selling to other existing websites, but to broker on content stores.

Content is always going to be salable, whether exclusively shot last month, or non-exclusive from 10 years ago, there is always a market segment for content in any genre of any age. If they produced it, chances are they understand that genre of content and most likely will have the basic ability to at least present it in a way that is appealing to that market audience.

Then there is the angle that lets say he is just producing for other companies, he's a content producer, he has access to potentially hundreds of models, all the equipment needed and sets, he could easily kick out enough content to throw on a paysite tour in a week at least to get a site launched to affiliates, then during the first month, I'm sure he'd be able to do at least 1 other shoot per site to get next months update in place... If he was smart about it, he could do one shoot to cover multiple niches which would also off-set his production costs greatly...

Lets not forget we work in the adult industry where perception and reality differ greatly from person to person and perception is typically what the industry operates on.

I understand where youre coming from but i think what youre saying makes more sense in theory.

I think you better know what youre doing and have a long history of experience if you think youre going to going to be profiting to the point of where you'd consider it a successful program with non exclusive content. While I understand there is still some businesses operating with non exclusive content, most of them have faded out, the ones that remain, have adapted in other ways and have consistently reinvested. Starting from scratch with no experience and non exclusive content. Thats just setting a newbie up for failure. Sure its cheaper, but youre odds diminish greatly.

And when you gave a rough estimation of some prices, its easy to make it look like it will cost less. Thats the mistake most people make when launching a business, i can think of 15 costs that you left out. It adds up.

and if we're talking exclusive and factor in location costs and model costs and hair costs and test shoot costs and props and wardrobe

how about the income you pay yourself while you are spending all day and night setting up your business for 6 months atleast! (i'd say closer to a year for a newbie - starting from the moment they register the server) how about the few hundred dollar a month server bill that piles up from the moment you attempt to startup your business. Time is money and every month youre not profiting from your business, its costing you thousands

how about the 5-6 other scripts that bill monthly until you actually get to the launch point? how about promo tools being designed, how about gas for driving models, how about eating out while shooting, how about paying for help on things you dont know

Webmaster Advertising · 01-07-2013, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

i can think of 15 costs that you left out.

Other than hosting, which can be picked up for around $100 a year, what else is there?

Pseudonymous · 01-07-2013, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Other than hosting, which can be picked up for around $100 a year, what else is there?

I edited my post and mentioned some of them

Webmaster Advertising · 01-07-2013, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

how about the 5-6 other scripts that bill monthly until you actually get to the launch point?

Such as? Id love to know anyone who purchases scripts before they are actually ready to utilize them, that is just bad business.

Webmaster Advertising · 01-07-2013, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

I edited my post and mentioned some of them

Guy launching this site or sites is a producer, he already has access to all of that stuff... Not seeing where the extra cost involvement is myself, maybe I'm missing something?

What sort of 'producer' are we talking, a serious producer that has all the stuff required to shoot exclusive content for a wide range of clients in the industry or; Paul Markham?

If we're talking Markham level then yes, would definitely fail /thread

Pseudonymous · 01-07-2013, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Such as? Id love to know anyone who purchases scripts before they are actually ready to utilize them, that is just bad business.

You need to get these things asasp to get an understanding, these people haven't worked with a cms, or any of these scripts before, do you expect them to only pay for them just before launch time?

People usually order the cms so that you can do the integration into the design.

Affiliate software, because only then do they realize what tools they can offer and what they need

also these people generally think theyre going to launch sooner than they do, i think every person in adult can back that up, hell even us experienced people do that

and to be honest, i suspect they get all tools they need to early, because like i said, they want all the things together so they can put the pieces together, sure you dont need everything at that very moment, but its easier to put the pieces together when theyre purchased and you open them and get an understanding of how they work

hard to learn a piece of software without opening it

Pseudonymous · 01-07-2013, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Guy launching this site or sites is a producer, he already has access to all of that stuff... Not seeing where the extra cost involvement is myself, maybe I'm missing something?

What sort of 'producer' are we talking, a serious producer that has all the stuff required to shoot exclusive content for a wide range of clients in the industry or; Paul Markham?

If we're talking Markham level then yes, would definitely fail /thread

LOL ok well im done with this debate.

agree to disagree.

you think a producer with no experience in running an adult website can launch a profitable business with 10 sites for 5k ;)

I do not. I think its FAR more and that opinion is evident in my past posts

Webmaster Advertising · 01-07-2013, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

People usually order the cms so that you can do the integration into the design.

A newbie is going to be updating his websites by hand the first few months, at least until they have made enough money to invest into a CMS or had someone do a install of WordPress to handle their members area.

Quote:

Affiliate software, because only then do they realize what tools they can offer and what they need

They have already signed up to CCBill to handle the processing, no affiliate software needed, as for promo tools, they can post on any of the industry message boards and find out the php code (for free) to create hosted galleries, free sites, etc, etc..

Quote:

i suspect they get all tools they need to early

I suspect if they did, then they would fail. Most people wait until the month of their launch to get any type of scripting installed, if they use any at all until they have established a positive cash-flow. No need to spend money before you NEED to spend money.

How many amateur sites have launched in the past with just banners, no programs like StrongBox, CARMA, etc, etc...

I think now we're bordering on the lines between what a 'newbie' actually knows about and what they 'should' know about, most newbies aren't going to have a clue about CMS stuff, cascading billing, etc... Whilst these things do help generate income, they are not necessities in running a successful paysite, plenty of sites were successful prior to NATs, plenty of sites are successful post NATs...

Pseudonymous · 01-07-2013, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruseful

I didn't jump in on the thread to say that I was newbie and I succeeded, I only posted to point out why Gamma was on the domains registration, and then answered subsequent questions, so i wasn't the one that put my own name out there (cheers MaDalton lol)

Also, that "inside knowledge" you speak about is all in the guide that I wrote. You can find it here: https://content.porntube.com . I follow this 100%.

Given the circumstances, I was just tying to correct that its not so cut and dry and wanted to make sure people didn't take your post like its no problem to launch a site these days with a modest and no experience

Wasnt suggesting you were saying that

Webmaster Advertising · 01-07-2013, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudonymous

LOL ok well im done with this debate.

agree to disagree.

you think a producer with no experience in running an adult website can launch a profitable business with 10 sites for 5k ;)

I do not. I think its FAR more and that opinion is evident in my past posts

My point is, i think we've crossed over in the debate of...

1) What should a paysite/affiliate have to help them succeed tool wise vs;
2) Can a newbie make a profitable paysite.

We know about all these things, most newbies dont and wont until they get mentioned on boards, in private conversations, etc...

So yes, I agree these things ARE needed to help the running of the business on a time-management scale, but they most certainly ARE NOT needed to help keep an affiliate program profitable for a newbie until they have grown to such a level where it is required.

Xxaru Media · 01-07-2013, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webmaster Advertising

Guy launching this site or sites is a producer, he already has access to all of that stuff... Not seeing where the extra cost involvement is myself, maybe I'm missing something?

What sort of 'producer' are we talking, a serious producer that has all the stuff required to shoot exclusive content for a wide range of clients in the industry or; Paul Markham?

If we're talking Markham level then yes, would definitely fail /thread

You?re missing the point. The question wasn?t about a top producer sitting on stock piles of exclusive content. We?re talking about someone that has to go in from scratch. So they have to pay all the production costs. No way you can do that with 10K.

Xxaru Media · 01-07-2013, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruseful

I hired a cameraman, a photographer, a webmaster and part time developer. Outsourced the design/build and launched the sites. I made my initial investment back in 3 months and always reinvest profits into building the company. I have over 30 staff now.

As already mentioned we can't really classify you as new to the game. But still very well done. I'd also be interested to know your initial startup cost range. I'm betting it was more than 50-100K.

MaDalton · 01-07-2013, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruseful

I didn't jump in on the thread to say that I was newbie and I succeeded, I only posted to point out why Gamma was on the domains registration, and then answered subsequent questions, so i wasn't the one that put my own name out there (cheers MaDalton lol)

Also, that "inside knowledge" you speak about is all in the guide that I wrote. You can find it here: https://content.porntube.com . I follow this 100%.

oops

xanadu · 01-07-2013, 07:38 AM

very interesting thread!

And yes JT, you were not a newbie, so Pseudonymous is right :p

would be good someone to post what are considered the normal start up costs, content/cms/design/dev.servers/aff.script etc

Overall i personally agree that is very hard, close to impossible for a total newbie as things are right now.

Its all relative though. What a total newbie in the end is? Someone that has no idea of the industry nor of the web nor of shooting nor of marketing and wants to start making money right away with zero investment without teaming up with anyone?

I think this hardly can happen in any industry anyhow... Can someone make a successful design agency without knowing photoshop nor hiring designers?

Its always product+marketing+sales...

When you can do only 1 of these and dont have the means to hire people to do the other 2, then you sell your product/service to others that need it, as much as you need them or you team up.

Adult was a goldmine but this was meant to stop at some point as in any other industry, goldmines dont last forever.

01-06-2013, 10:07 PM	#63
scubadiver626 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,034	Learn how to sell first. Be a capable earning affiliate, and If you can kick ass, your success potential will be way higher. __________________ AsiaMoviePass My Best Rebilling Site

01-06-2013, 10:28 PM	#65
Xxaru Media Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: MIA Posts: 255	I still look at the overall numbers. Even if you came in and learned the ropes as an affiliate, you look at the time investment you put into getting to the point where you can carry things over to the building of a pay site. On top of that, you still have to put up a lot of cash, and all for what? You?re looking at a limited return ratio, which could get even worse over time in the industry. I don?t know who in their right mind would want to jump in with those numbers unless you found a way to produce the content for free. __________________ ICQ: 392432948 Need A Hosting Provider - Click Here

01-07-2013, 12:23 AM	#73
ReggieDurango Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: California Posts: 4,748	Woah, missed that you mentioned erospov.com - yeah I shoot content for the site. (I am obviously biased but) I think the content it alright.. shame that there is so little traffic to a site with quality content Last edited by ReggieDurango; 01-07-2013 at 12:30 AM.. Reason: oh well

01-07-2013, 12:50 AM	#82
Pseudonymous Photographer/Owner Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 2,661	Ive talked to a ton of producers in the past couple years, i really dont think most of them are sitting on a ton of content like you say, especially not content they have the rights to sell. If youre a producer, most content you have that is of quality, was shot to provide to somebody, and you most likely provided exclusive rights. If its content youve been supplying with no exclusive rights, youre now working with saturated content and no experience. Even if you startup cheap, it wont go anywhere most likely However in this magical land where producers are sitting on all this unused non saturated content, sure they could do it for cheaper ;) __________________ Previous owner of SoloRevenue Previous product manager @ Modelcentro.com/MCProfits.com, IsMyGirl.com, SMRevenue.com Last edited by Pseudonymous; 01-07-2013 at 12:51 AM..

01-07-2013, 07:38 AM	#100
xanadu bot Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Barcelona Posts: 997	very interesting thread! And yes JT, you were not a newbie, so Pseudonymous is right :p would be good someone to post what are considered the normal start up costs, content/cms/design/dev.servers/aff.script etc Overall i personally agree that is very hard, close to impossible for a total newbie as things are right now. Its all relative though. What a total newbie in the end is? Someone that has no idea of the industry nor of the web nor of shooting nor of marketing and wants to start making money right away with zero investment without teaming up with anyone? I think this hardly can happen in any industry anyhow... Can someone make a successful design agency without knowing photoshop nor hiring designers? Its always product+marketing+sales... When you can do only 1 of these and dont have the means to hire people to do the other 2, then you sell your product/service to others that need it, as much as you need them or you team up. Adult was a goldmine but this was meant to stop at some point as in any other industry, goldmines dont last forever. __________________ GFY Admin [email protected] https://linktr.ee/xxx Last edited by xanadu; 01-07-2013 at 07:39 AM..

01-06-2013, 11:33 PM	#67
Webmaster Advertising So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,360	I do find it interesting that consistently over the past 12 years of being around the industry the entry level to start a new paysite is always $50-$100k whenever a thread like this pops up.