Vendzilla

Yeah, glad to see state officials are at least commenting.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

trevesty

I laughed pretty hard at that also.

trevesty

Whatever you've gotta tell yourself.

Vendzilla

What I have to tell myself, it seems you have voices in your head!

You put words into the mouth of people that clearly said nothing like that, you then blame one of many news sources mentioned in this thread as some kind of reason for your ignorance, then you make it about my age, are you the new GFY idiot?

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

dyna mo

i neglected to include the sources

it's from this link

and it's Republican Governor Brian Sandoval

Here's more of what he said:

"Due to the roundup by the BLM, my office has received numerous complaints of BLM conduct, road closures and other disturbances. I have recently met with state legislators, county officials and concerned citizens to listen to their concerns.

I have expressed those concerns directly to the BLM. Most disturbing to me is the BLM's establishment of a 'First Amendment Area' that tramples upon Nevadans' fundamental rights under the U.S. Constitution.

To that end, I have advised the BLM that such conduct is offensive to me and countless others and that the 'First Amendment Area' should be dismantled immediately.

No cow justifies the atmosphere of intimidation which currently exists nor the limitation of constitutional rights that are sacred to all Nevadans.

The BLM needs to reconsider its approach to this matter and act accordingly."

dyna mo

the dilemma just keeps getting more intriguing to me! for 1 thing, it seems blm claims publically thta they are confiscating cattle and kiccking out bundy due to fees he owes but in court they filed documents claiming the reason they are evicting is due to the desert tortoise.

Another thing, apparently that's not federal land, it's state own land, so technically not blm's jurisdiction, from what I've read. But even more importantly, apparently Bundy's family has been ranching that land since before Nevada was even a state and their right to ranch that land is grand-fathered in.

trevesty

infowars is only a "news source" to a mental midget. it's an extreme right wing cesspool of foolery, but the fact that you call it a source demonstrates a lot about you.

Ignorance? Oh, ok. Well, if I'm ignorant because I don't fall for hyperbolic bullshit by the far-right, then so be it. I'm gladly "ignorant" then. Better than being an old, senile mental midget for sure.

trevesty

My understanding is that the land in question(as well as other remote areas of Nevada) were in dispute amongst claimants(ranchers, miners, etc) at the time right before statehood, thus the federal government took over the titles to these properties to expedite the process of making Nevada a state. The idea was to sell the land back to the state and/or an auction of sorts amongst those claimants. This last part never happened, so the BLM has been in control since that agency was created.

That also doesn't sound as good in a blog article meant to stir up fervor of "lol government bad".

Vendzilla

Offering your 2 cents but being a penny short?

You defended your putting words in the mouth of others with infowars and posted a link saying the same things from a different source. I'm glad you are ignorant too!

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

Hard to believe you have any understanding at all!

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

trevesty

Oh, ok. I just tend to mock far-right mouth breathers.

Vendzilla

Looks like the Sheriff and BLM came to an agreement and BLM is stopping what they were doing and they are going to share the sale money from Bundy's cattle with him.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/252303...-bundy-and-blm

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

There you go again, talking out your ass.

Where is this a political thing? Ignorant to the end I see!

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

dyna mo

myunderstanding of this was the right to graze cattle would remain, land ownership regardless.


cooler heads prevail.

trevesty

As long as dues are paid, yes.

trevesty

Yay! You like to say words like ignorant and stuff a whole lot, but that's about it. If you're unable to distinguish between a bunch of far-right blogs calling for arms to a rancher who doesn't want to pay dues and the thousands of other ranchers who happily pay dues(really cheap ones, mind you) for access to this land and others across the west, then... who's the ignorant one?

It's absolutely a political thing. The far-right wants another thing to cry about as far as the big, bad government. That's it.

dyna mo

I haven't read anything about grazing dues when Nevada formed as a state back in the 1800s

Vendzilla

Where did I post anything about a calling to arms?

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/n...dup-decelerate

1.1 million in fees, so they spend close to a million to round up the cattle?

The BLM and Park Service have not released any cost projections for the operation, but almost $1 million will be paid to a Utah-based livestock contractor hired to collect Bundy’s cattle.

That makes you the ignorant one! If it were about dues, how can they justify spending a million dollars to collect a million dollars?

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

MaDalton

guns and cows - i had to check my calendar if i didnt accidentally traveled back in time...

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Robbie

I heard the rancher himself in a radio interview here in Vegas yesterday.

He brought up some good points:

1. His family have grazed their cattle there since 1887.

2. The land is NOT federal land. It is "owned" by Clark County.

3. He has paid his "grazing fees" to Clark County every year.

4. The BLM is using a tortoise as the excuse for this land grab.

5. The tortoise in question has lived in harmony with cattle for hundreds of years

6. The BLM themselves euthanized 1000 of these "endangered" tortoises because their population growth is out of control.

I found all of this to be very interesting. And also very interesting that our senator Harry Reid has his hands all in it for his cronies.

Not only is he pushing this...but the new head of the BLM worked for Harry Reid.

Just follow the money and you'll see quickly why the feds have sent in an army to drive cattle ranchers off of land that belongs to Nevada.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Vendzilla

Are you a vegetarian? I like steaks!!

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

trevesty

I'm glad you can't read. I didn't say anything about you posting a call to arms. But now that I know for sure that you're unable to comprehend really simple words, I'll just disregard you from here on out as another conspiracy loon like WHP.

Vendzilla

You have a learning disability?

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

According to this
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/ne...rville-roundup

BLM is releasing the cattle back to Bundy and pulling out of the area

You know there are things here we will not hear about going on!

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Penny24Seven

GFY standards? LOL come on Aaron. I have never seen them so low. This is what I expect lol

__________________
Our site is coming soon. It will be one of the best ever! I know so. Brian and Penny

wehateporn

They set up no-fly zone to keep News helicopters away

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/notam_actual_4_1687.html

__________________

trevesty

Thanks for pointing out how dumb you are.

Vendzilla

So you are not denying a learning disibility? I never said anything about my intelligence. I can help you out with a copy of hooked on phonics. Maybe help your ability to read to at least a 4th grade level.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

trevesty

I'll break it down for you. I said, and I quote... "if you're unable to distinguish far right blogs calling for arms".... not "Vendzilla", or "old idiot".

But keep preaching on about other people being ignorant when it's pretty clear you can't read for shit.

Vendzilla

You brought up calling for arms as an insult like I believed it, it was clearly your intention to label me in that I believe those blogs when I never mentioned anything about the militia or the calling to arms.

Clearly you think I'm beneath you as I'm older. Something I'm sure you share because of a troubled relationship with your mother.

You came in this thread , not to debate, but to insult.


Trevesty, is that a play on words for Travesty? As in what the state paid for your education? It was a Travesty?

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

trevesty

You sure love to make assumptions and write out a lot of words just because someone pointed out that you can't read very well. I'm sorry your feelings are hurt... actually, no I'm not. I have no respect for far-right loons.

AaronM

?Years ago, I used to have 52 neighboring ranchers,? he said. ?I?m the last man standing. How come? Because BLM regulated these people off the land and out of business.?

http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/cliven-bundy-part-1/

trevesty

Do you really think that I'll listen to anything posted on a conspiracy website? Really?

A few of his neighboring ranchers were commenting on the original Reddit thread on /r/news. 3 of them weren't really defending him, but were pretty upset with the feds - 1 of them seemed pretty neutral - he just described what was going on for those of us who didn't know without putting some omg freedom or omg feds are right spin on it. So, I'm not sure how they define "neighbor", but they were posting pictures from their porch of helicopters, etc., coming in with "hey reddit!" signs. I guess that'd have to be pretty close.

Regardless, I wouldn't consider anything from that site worth anything.

Vendzilla

If you can read, why do you quote me and say nothing that has to do with what I posted?

My feelings aren't hurt, this is GFY.
You are the one trying so hard to battle with an OLD GUY.

Now you are calling me a far right loon? WHY? What makes you think that?

Shows how little you are following all this, it's pretty over for now and the BLM is giving back the cattle, the calmer heads are prevailing. I'm sure you would have done it differently.





This is fun. But I'm going to stop this.
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. And I have reached mine for the day!

Have a good day Travesty

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

trevesty

Sunny Day

This guy has this semi trailer on US 71 I-29 calling Democrats parasites. The USDA pays him over $200,000 a year in farm subsidies. So who is the real parasite?

AaronM

I really don't care what you listen to. But since you have an issue with that source, pick another.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bundy+52+ranchers

Matt 26z

If InfoWars isn't your style, then here's a Reuters article:


(Reuters) - U.S. Senator Harry Reid recognized nine years ago that connections between his official duties and the lobbying activities of his relatives could lead to ethical questions.

In 2003, the Nevada Democrat publicly banned relatives from lobbying him or his staff after newspaper reports showed that Nevada industries and institutions routinely turned to Reid's sons or son-in-law for representation.

Now, questions surrounding family ties are flaring again in Nevada around the Senate majority leader. He and his oldest son, Rory, are both involved in an effort by a Chinese energy giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...87U06D20120831

deltav

The websites some of you guys put forth as news sources - with straight faces - is fucking absurd. Infowars? PolicestateUSA.com? Natural News???

Even that David Blackmon guy for Forbes is a well-known shill & apologist for the oil & gas industries, every single thing he writes is in some way a rationalization that corporations should be able to drill & frack & graze & pave over every square fucking inch of the country that they want to.

That these sources are being presented as remotely credible and doing anything other than promoting their ideologies by whatever kooky cherry-picked distortions or speculations they can muster...... welp, I guess critical thinking skills aren't humanity's strong suit.

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*********
DeltaofVenus.com - Vintage Erotica from the 1800s through 1979

dyna mo

According to that article the matters are completely unrelated. The land in that article was already bought and sold to the chinese firm. also, that land is over 250 miles away from gold butte, where this matter is occurring. Also, the world's biggest solar farm is 3500 acres. a paltry amount compared to the 100,000s of acres bundy's cattle were grazing from.

I'm not seeing harry reid being behind this.

dyna mo

settle down.

speaking for myself, I'm shooting the shit here about an interesting topic that is unfolding in real time with various sources of conflicting information. You're sadly mistaken if you think I'm clinging to anything about this story, especially a news summary.


If you think my posting that more than fair summary of what appears to blackmon to be going on is some sort of poster child for humanity's critical thinking ability in 2014, grab a mirror.

DirtyDanza

this isn't about money... it's about how the BLM and feds can come claim any land any time and fuck you over.... Cliven hasn't hurt anyone... the BLM is claiming endangered tortoise yet last year we closed our tortoise sanctuary cause BLM said can't do it anymore... it's bullshit... cliven is a good guy his family is huge and he been on these lands before they were these lands....

__________________
AVN Nominated Camming Couple

dyna mo

deltav, let me know what's not credible about this overview by blackmon and why you claim I lack critical thinking skills simply because I posted it in this thread.

Matt 26z

Well there was obviously something to it because the Feds are releasing the cattle back onto the very land they took them from!

This is what happens when a large group of Americans are willing to stand up for what they believe in. Now just imagine if everyone across the country acted like this. Washington would be cleaned up pretty quick.


http://www.8newsnow.com/story/252315...iven-bundy-blm


Armed Bundy family leaders met with BLM officers Saturday afternoon in Mesquite to discuss the fate of the Bundy's cattle that the feds removed from BLM land, over the past week.

Under the deal the cattle were released from a holding area near Mesquite, back onto the federal lands they were removed from.
...
Prior to the meeting, hundreds of protesters, some armed, tried storming the BLM's cattle gate, but weren't successful. The crowd was urged to wait 30 minutes and give both sides a chance to talk.

Robbie

I listened to the man himself on the radio yesterday. And Mr. Bundy said he had 500 cattle. Not 1,000 and not "thousands"

He also said that the govt. had taken approximately 300 of his cattle as of yesterday, which left him with 200 or so cows.

I don't know where all these sites are getting info from. But I'm taking it straight from the source.

He also said that his family had used those lands for open range grazing since the 1880's. As have several other ranchers. That is the way it was done historically.

And he also pointed out that the land does NOT belong to the Federal Govt.

He also said that he has paid "grazing fees" to Clark County, NV
The land is Clark County property is what he stated on the radio and that he pays them every year.

He also pointed out the absurdity of the BLM's claim that cows are harming the tortoises!!!

Cows don't hurt turtles.
And Mr. Bundy pointed that out. His family and other ranchers have been here from the beginning of Nevada. I think that anybody with common sense would realize a cow doesn't hurt a turtle.

What's next? Is the BLM going to start hunting down every animal that lives on those lands EXCEPT the turtle...so the turtle can be "safe"???

The first thing the BLM should do is remove itself. They themselves KILLED 1,000 of these "endangered" tortoises because the population of them is out of control.

I'm reading through these posts, and the one thing I don't understand is:
How does the govt. come in on lands it does not own with all of it's resources and power...then bully a hard working ranching family: Then somehow this becomes an argument about "right wingers" and "conspiracy nuts"???

It's happening right in front of our faces.
The govt. is overreaching.
It doesn't matter if you are a "Democrat" or a "Republican" or if you own a gun or not.

This is the kind of thing that our country was founded to NOT have happen to our citizens.

And the BLM creating an imaginary "First Amendment Zone"? What the fuck is that?
And then a "No fly zone" over the property so the news helicopters couldn't film them?

What was the guy supposed to do?

I'm GLAD that some people are not going to let the govt. push them around like that.

And in my humble opinion it shows why gun ownership IS still an important thing in this country.

It's just my opinion. I've seen in the last few decades a steady erosion of freedom in this country. It's all been "baby steps" so you don't notice the little incremental moves.

But when you step back and look at it as a whole...especially since 9-11, the govt. is way out of control.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Robbie

Again: Those are NOT "federal lands". The BLM is claiming jurisdiction because of an endangered tortoise that lives in the desert.
The land is Clark County. Which is why the Sheriff never arrested Mr. Bundy and was instrumental in the meeting to end the "stand off".

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

deltav

I wasn't really referring to you with that post, you're usually one of the more reasonable guys in these discussions.

But just wanted to state for the record that Blackmon's MO is defending Big Oil, gas companies, ranchers, etc, at all costs and curse those evil regulators in pretty much everything he writes. And in that excerpt you posted he does actually make some pretty huge assumptions while using the language of fact - "obvious conclusion" "key facts" "clear expectation" - which again has always been his technique in Forbes as an industry shill.

I don't really have a dog in this one, IMO there are plenty of bigger fish to fry in the industry/land-use conflict arena... it's more just the 1000th time I see Infowars and Natural News being used as objective evidence... just smh.

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DeltaofVenus.com - Vintage Erotica from the 1800s through 1979

dyna mo

I kinda see what you're saying. But he uses those assumptions to conclude that bundy has a legal leg to stand on re: capricious regulations, which I find to be a reasonable conclusion.

But yeah, he's pro-oil, i've had that pointed out to me here before re: the tesla when I qouted him on that.

I think he does a reasonably good summation of events, sure he peppers it with conclusions, nevertheless.

trevesty

Sweet, but knowing that you'd consider a conspiracy site worthy of mentioning says a lot. Police state usa? come on.. at least some of the other ones TRY to hide their paranoid dip shit bias. Anyways, only Fox News and offgridsurvival.com mention that quote that I see in the top 10. So.. a company that lies consistently and this has been documented, and then another conspiracy site. Awesome.

http://lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr...ully-not-hero/
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014...dy-blm-battle/

Again, came down to a far-right traditionalist dork wanting to have his cake and eat it, too, but got his feelings all hurt when the government decided to stop baking the cake entirely. Pretty typical.

dyna mo

I don't know how accurate this is

::::::::

The land has belonged to the federal government since 1848, when it was acquired under the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

From 1848 until passage of the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, the federal government allowed free grazing on federal open range. The Taylor Grazing Act provided for grazing permits within the grazing districts established under the act. The permits required the payment of grazing fees.

The Taylor Grazing Act was subsequently pre-empted by the Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976, which continued to provide for grazing fees.

The grazing contracts have a ten-year term.

Nevada open-range law specifically recognizes federal grazing contract provisions as Nevada law.

From 1934 to 1993, the Bundy family had a grazing contract with the federal government and paid the grazing fee.

In 1993, Clive Bundy refused to sign a new grazing agreement with the BLM because the new agreement limited the number of cattle on the allotment (due to the presence of an endangered species of tortoise) and increased the grazing fee.