VikingMan

I have some put options but not going to reveal what they are. I sold most of my gold and silver a few months back. I put most of my money into gold and silver after the 9/11 false flag. If had bigger balls I would have put all my money into a FOREX account and leveraged myself big time while the dollar tanked against the Euro. But FOREX is stressful so I probably would have ended up jumping out a window or something.

Internet Guy

Fair enough. The market has been a wild place lately. I'm not sure why you're so convinced this is staged, time will tell I guess :-) Good luck with your positions man.

Internet Guy

GregE

No question about it, that's a powerful and thought provoking image.

Lots of veterans out there now who can't find a decent job

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Shotsie

Here's some statistics for the so called business friendly states, as far as manufacturing goes. The decreases are in number of workers employed.


Arizona


Texas

Now compare those to the decline in a so called non business friendly state.


California

At a glance, it seems to show that a few jobs have moved out of California to other states, but the vast majority of lost manufacturing jobs have either left the country as a whole, or/and been automated out of existence. from about 1990 to 2009, every State lost manufacturing jobs. So while California may be unfriendly to business what you overlooking is the fact that the whole country is bleeding jobs. So think about it like this, the US is a sick patient, but the patient's sickness isn't isolated to an infected limb(California), the patients illness is systematic. The patient is hemorrhaging profusely in almost all parts of it's body, trying to save one body part is futile.

When free enterprise profit begins to affect the health of a country, where should we draw the line between businesses' rights to do as they wish, and limiting them when they wish to perform actions that will damage the country? If you are an American corporation drawing upon the excellent resources coming from being in America, you owe it to America and its citizens not to drain us by sending all the manufacturing and jobs to other countries. To do otherwise is cynically exploiting the US as a base while exploiting the cheap labor elsewhere. All around exploitation, while the CEO gets a $30 million golden parachute and ex-workers end up living in the streets. That's got to stop before we have nothing left.

12clicks

this has nothing to do with what I'm talking about but just to respond, there are no ex workers living in the streets. stop buying into the horror hype and regurgitating it.

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BFT3K

The Occupy Wall Street movement will either strengthen and focus, or it will go the way of hippy silliness, and fizzle out.

If it strengthens and defines its goals, it will definitely bolster Obama's re-election.

This is why Fox (and the like) and already attacking it.

sperbonzo

Which is why the left media has been constantly been attacking the Tea Party movement.... The same reasons, but in reverse.

..... and before you come up with some silly crap about the Tea Party is different because it's being backed by a secret cabal lead by the Koch brothers, just remember that one could make the same case for a secret cabal lead by George Soros manufacturing this movement also, with the same or more actual evidence.

Here is a funny video for you to make my point.... Worth watching, no matter what side you are on.

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BFT3K

If the OWS movement does not list its specific demands soon, you are right, it will be hijacked by a more organized group. That's been my issue with this since it began.

Your "George Soros is to the left, is what the Koch Bros are like to the right" is a consistent Fox Noise talking point. An idiotic, and non-equivalent comparison, but congrats to Fox for another successful brainwash!

sperbonzo

I've never heard fox say that, probably because I don't pay them any more attention than the other agenda driven news sources. ...and if you get your news from only sources that agree with your already fixed world view, then you only getting half the story, and you are brainwashing yourself. You should really try branching out, and having the courage to look at evidence that you don't want to agree with. You may find your mind expanded a bit from it's current narrow and restricted field of view. It's not easy to do, but it's worth it.




p.s. Did you watch the video? Pretty funny when you think about it!
.

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BFT3K

Are you serious? Read over your posts here on GFY and then return back to discuss your centrist and open minded viewpoints.

As far as the video goes... I think ANYONE can go into ANY crowd, and easily find people unprepared to conduct an impromptu debate.

If the person conducting the interview wants to highlight dialogue that bolsters their preconceived position (agenda), it is very easy to do so. Find a few weak people and put them up on YouTube, and edit out the answers you are not happy to hear. Not really a big challenge for either side to do.

CaptainHowdy

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sperbonzo

Where did I say I was centrist? I'm a hard core libertarian, I believe in people having as much freedoms, both for themselves, and their interactions with others, as possible.


I'm talking about having diverse news and information sources. I'm not a centrist at all and I never claimed to be. What do the two things have to do with each other?

Maybe this really sheds light on my point. You apparently think that only a centrist can listen to many divergent information sources, because this fits with the fact that you yourself only get information from sources that you agree with.

You really need to branch out your information sources about the world. It can be difficult, but you will find out a hell of a lot more than simply going with the stuff you agree with.



.

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J. Falcon

I protesting was a waste of time you wouldn't have a penny or any rights. You're a fucking retard.

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12clicks

not sure who you are but I suggest you find a full time job.

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BFT3K

Just as meaningful or meaningless as you want it to be...



https://youtube.com/watch?v=6yrT-0Xbrn4

12clicks

what the moron being interviewed doesn't understand is that 30 years ago, the college drop out bill gates and the bastard child of a teenage mother larry ellison weren't out protesting Reaganomics. They were busy working away at the American dream. This deluded clown wants to be handed what others are working for.
This deluded clown has bought into the lie that the "rich" aren't just middle class people who worked hard and smart but that they're some super elite club that holds down guys who refuse to work hard and would rather "protest"

__________________

porno jew

bill gates comes from the wealthiest family in his state and had the access to capital and connections and freedom that brought.

12clicks

uh, they were nowhere near the wealthiest.
and ellison? or for that matter the guys who founded google? sheldon adelson? Jeff Bezos (another one born to a teenage mom), john paulson of Queens NY, george soros,

some of America's richest people all rising from the middle class or below.
most of the others in the top 20 were part of the family business created by their fathers (hardly hereditary wealth)

but go on, ignore facts. it ruins the liberal story of the wealthy holding down the hard working.

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sperbonzo

Just like so many “true conservatives” apologized for George W. Bush for all those years, now we are seeing those on the left apologize for Barack Obama.

It is truly sickening.

Posted below are 11 reasons why Occupy Wall Street protesters are hypocrites if they do not call for Barack Obama to resign immediately….

#1 Occupy Wall Street says that they are angry that the big Wall Street banks “have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give executives exorbitant bonuses.”

Well, if Barack Obama and John McCain had not aggressively pushed for the Wall Street bailouts back in 2008, they never would have happened. After Obama took office, he rammed through even more bailouts. The reality is that you could easily call Barack Obama “the king of the Wall Street bailouts”.

#2 Occupy Wall Street says that they are angry that the big Wall Street banks “have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.”

Yet they ignore the fact that 3 of the top 7 donors to Obama’s campaign in 2008 were the very Wall Street banks that the Occupy Wall Street movement is protesting.

Once again, Barack Obama will be taking in huge amounts of money from the wealthy and from big Wall Street banks for his run in 2012.

So why aren’t they complaining about that?

#3 One of the big themes of the Occupy Wall Street protests is the fact that Wall Street has way too much influence and power over the federal government.

Well, the Obama administration is absolutely packed with ex-executives of giant corporations and big Wall Street banks. Earlier this year, Michael Brenner wrote the following about the current composition of the Obama administration….

Wall Street’s takeover of the Obama administration is now complete. The mega-banks and their corporate allies control every economic policy position of consequence. Mr. Obama has moved rapidly since the November debacle to install business people where it counts most. Mr.William Daley from JP Morgan Chase as White House Chief of Staff. Mr. Gene Sperling from the Goldman Sachs payroll to be director of the National Economic Council. Eileen Rominger from Goldman Sachs named director of the SEC’s Investment Management division. Even the National Security Advisor, Thomas Donilon, was executive vice president for law and policy at the disgraced Fannie Mae after serving as a corporate lobbyist with O’Melveny & Roberts. The keystone of the business friendly team was put in place on Friday. General Electric Chairman and CEO Jeffrey Immelt will serve as chair of the president’s Council on Jobs and Competitiveness.

#4 Occupy Wall Street says that it is deeply concerned about the rampant corruption in our financial system.

The Federal Reserve is the very heart and soul of our financial system, and yet there has been very little real criticism of the Fed by Occupy Wall Street protesters.

If Occupy Wall Street truly wanted to do something about our financial system they would be calling for the Federal Reserve to be shut down.

But their hero, Barack Obama, actually nominated Ben Bernanke for a second term as Federal Reserve Chairman and Obama continues to support him 100 percent even after a horrible track record of failures that is legendary.

#5 Occupy Wall Street says that it is angry that big corporations “have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.”

This issue alone should be enough for Occupy Wall Street to call for Barack Obama to resign.

The Obama administration has pushed very hard for new “free trade” agreements with Panama, South Korea and Colombia and the Obama administration is currently making the Trans-Pacific Partnership (“the NAFTA of the Pacific“) a very high priority.

The Obama administration has been very aggressively trying to expand the “free trade” policies that are costing us millions of jobs.

In fact, members of the Obama administration run around and openly talk about how there are things that “we don’t want to make in America”.

For example, the following is what U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk recently told Tim Robertson of the Huffington Post about the Obama administration’s attitude toward keeping manufacturing jobs in America….

Let’s increase our competitiveness… the reality is about half of our imports, our trade deficit is because of how much oil [we import], so you take that out of the equation, you look at what percentage of it are things that frankly, we don’t want to make in America, you know, cheaper products, low-skill jobs that frankly college kids that are graduating from, you know, UC Cal and Hastings [don't want], but what we do want is to capture those next generation jobs and build on our investments in our young people, our education infrastructure.

Unions should be screaming bloody murder about this.

But instead they are going to line up behind Barack Obama once again in 2012 like good little sheeple.

#6 Occupy Wall Street says that the big health insurance companies “have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.”

Well, as I have written about previously, the health insurance companies helped to write huge portions of Obamacare. Instead of reducing the power of health insurance companies, Obamacare actually gives them more power and will actually increase their profits. The sad truth is that large portions of Obamacareare virtually identical to a bill that was written by the health insurance trade association in 2009. Under Obamacare, our health care costs will go up even faster and the quality of our health care will continue to go down.

#7 Occupy Wall Street says that they are angry because the big banks “have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.”

Occupy Wall Street is correct about this.

So where has Barack Obama been on this issue? The reality is that the Obama administration has done very little about the horrific foreclosure abuses that have been going on.

#8 Occupy Wall Street is upset that “our privacy” has been sold “as a commodity.”

Well, why aren’t Occupy Wall Street protesters calling out Barack Obama for his horrific track record on civil liberties.

The national security apparatus that George W. Bush set up has been greatly expanded by Barack Obama.

It was the Obama administration that decided that it was necessary for TSA thugs to feel our private parts before we board our flights and it was the Obama administration that decided that TSA “VIPR teams” should run around the country conducting approximately 8,000 “unannounced security screenings” a year at subway stations, bus terminals, ports and highway rest stops.

So where is the outrage?

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sperbonzo

#9 Occupy Wall Street is angry that the United States has “perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.”

Oh really?

Under Barack Obama, the U.S. military has been used as the “police of the world” even more than it was under George W. Bush.

Under Obama, the war in Afghanistan was greatly expanded and the U.S. military began bombing the living daylights out of Libya. In addition, under Obama the U.S. military has been conducting air strikes in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia.

Today, there is a U.S. military base in over half of the countries on the planet and U.S. military spending is more than 7 times larger than the military spending of any other nation on earth.

So if “the left” was angry at George W. Bush for what he did, then why aren’t they filled with rage at Barack Obama for his policies?

#10 Occupy Wall Street is angry that the U.S. has “participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.”

Well, Barack Obama did not shut down Guantanamo Bay as he promised to do.

So where is the accountability?

Under George W. Bush, millions of “evangelical Christians” were cheering for torture.

Today, millions of “liberals” are cheering while the Obama administration conducts “enhanced interrogations” of prisoners and performs “extraordinary renditions” in foreign countries.

If liberals want to complain about “torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas”, it isn’t the Republicans they should be angry at.

Barack Obama is running our foreign policy, and he should be held accountable for what is going on.

#11 Occupy Wall Street is angry because the wealthy are not paying their “fair share” of taxes.

Well, it is undeniable that many big corporations (such as Obama’s good friends over at GE) quite often get away with paying no taxes at all.

But Barack Obama and the Democrats controlled the White House and all of Congress for two whole years.

So why didn’t they “fix” the tax code while they had the chance?

Could it be that they actually like the current system?

The truth is that our current tax system is so flawed, so complex and so full of holes that it needs to be thrown out entirely.

Many big corporations get away with bloody murder under the current tax system, yet nearly all establishment Democrats and nearly all establishment Republicans want to keep the current system of taxation.

In a previous article, I noted some of the big corporations that make a ton of money and yet have paid less than zero in taxes in recent years….

What U.S. corporations are able to get away with is absolutely amazing.

The following figures come directly out of a report by Citizens for Tax Justice. These are combined figures for the tax years 2008, 2009 and 2010.

During those three years, all of the corporations below made a lot of money. Yet all of them paid net taxes that were below zero for those three years combined.

How is that possible? Well, it turns out that instead of paying in taxes to the federal government, they were actually getting money back.

So for these corporations, their rate of taxation was actually below zero.

If you have not seen these before, you are going to have a hard time believing some of these statistics…..

*Honeywell*

Profits: $4.9 billion

Taxes: -$34 million

*Fed Ex*

Profits: $3 billion

Taxes: -$23 million

*Wells Fargo*

Profits: $49.37 billion

Taxes: -$681 million

*Boeing*

Profits: $9.7 billion

Taxes: -$178 million

*Verizon*

Profits: $32.5 billion

Taxes: -$951 million

*Dupont*

Profits: $2.1 billion

Taxes -$72 million

*American Electric Power*

Profits: $5.89 billion

Taxes -$545 million

*General Electric*

Profits: $7.7 billion

Taxes: -$4.7 billion

Are you starting to get the picture?

The amazing thing is that GE can get away with all this and still ship thousands upon thousands of good American jobs out of the country.

There is no way that our current tax code can be fixed with a few “tweaks” here and there. Our current tax code is an abomination that should be immediately repealed and flushed down the toilet.

But the Democrats and most Republicans seem to want to keep it around. They like to play their little social engineering games with the tax code, and the current tax code enables their wealthy donors to do quite nicely.

Occupy Wall Street is right to argue that our tax code is fundamentally unjust, and the number one person that they need to point the finger at is Barack Obama.

So can any “liberal” out there actually defend Barack Obama after reading all of this?

Can anyone out there put forth an intellectual argument for why Occupy Wall Street protesters should be supporting Obama?

The truth is that most of the Occupy Wall Street protesters are intellectual hypocrites.

Most of them are so scared that a Republican might win in 2012 that they won’t say anything bad about Obama.

It is the same trap that many Republicans fell into with George W. Bush.

Look, George W. Bush was a nightmare for this country.

Barack Obama is even worse.

If we are not going to be intellectually honest with ourselves, then we might as well tattoo the word “sheeple” on to our foreheads.

If Occupy Wall Street really believes the stuff that they are saying, then they need to call for Barack Obama to resign.

Does anyone disagree?

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Rochard

What is this movement about? Dunno. Seems they are unhappy that evil corporate empires like Verizon supply them with cell phones and Apple with laptops.

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PornoMonster

This is just a loophole -
#7 Occupy Wall Street says that they are angry because the big banks “have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.”

While yes it is true, with the selling and reselling of the mortage in bundled deals and so on.

The fact is still there, that You do Have a Mortage, and you Quit paying it. Someone is going to come take your house.

The people that quit paying are deflecting on who can prove who currently owns the loan..

What the spot light should be on is why did these people loose jobs and have to quit paying.

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Caligari

Sperbonzo, those people in the street protesting are against the policies which Obama obviously endorses, which is why they are in the streets right now.

This is all happening on Obama's watch.

I am sure many of them are aware of the corporate tax scams which have been perpetuated for how long now? These laws and loopholes have been slowly beating the hell out of the U.S. economy to the huge benefit of very few.

None of these politicians are going to touch the tax laws with a ten foot pole, because its the very same people who are putting them into office. All of them.

And when you talk about the bailout I think you would actually have to say that Bush and Obama should be called "King and Queen Bailout" respectively;)

Just calling for Obama's resignation isn't going to solve much.

But the elections are coming up, and thats where the new focus needs to be, and right now.
End corporate donors, put drastic celiing on campaign expenditures.
Make it impossible for a candidate to be bought, and we might have a real candidate this time around.

I think its too late to change things with the current administration.

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BFT3K

Reminds me of the Tea Party's rally against the Wall Street bailout.

Oh, wait a minute... that never happened.

sperbonzo

I don't know about the rest of the country, but we were protesting it in front of the Federal building in downtown fort lauderdale....



.

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BFT3K

Over time, the Occupy Wall Street movement will consist of a whole bunch of this guy, and then it will be unstoppable...



https://youtube.com/watch?v=KJKbDz4EZio

and the more people find themselves unemployed and foreclosed upon, the more of this guy will be in the street, fighting the machine.

It's gonna get ugly!...



https://youtube.com/watch?v=KtI85Zc6Oik&sns=fb

MediaGuy

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Shotsie

It really amazes me how often history repeats itself, yet we never seem to learn from it.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt's speech at Madison Square Garden(October 31, 1936):




If only President Obama had some balls like Roosevelt.....



Here's another excerpt from the speech that addresses so perfectly what's going on today it's eery:


Here's the rest of the speech for those interested: http://millercenter.org/scripps/arch...es/detail/3307

BFT3K

Nice find!

BFT3K

The subtitles add clarity to all of this, big time!



https://youtube.com/watch?v=3xJWxPE8G2c

Internet Guy

It's amazing how accurate these words are today.

12clicks

even during this populist stooge's remarks pandering to the bottom you didn't hear him single out the productive class for higher taxes.

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porno jew

decent analysis from rushkoff.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/05/opinio...eet/index.html

It is difficult to comprehend a 21st century movement from the perspective of the 20th century politics, media, and economics in which we are still steeped.

Occupy protests spread across U.S. Unions join 'Occupy Wall Street'
In fact, we are witnessing America's first true Internet-era movement, which -- unlike civil rights protests, labor marches, or even the Obama campaign -- does not take its cue from a charismatic leader, express itself in bumper-sticker-length goals and understand itself as having a particular endpoint.

That's because, unlike a political campaign designed to get some person in office and then close up shop (as in the election of Obama), this is not a movement with a traditional narrative arc. As the product of the decentralized networked-era culture, it is less about victory than sustainability. It is not about one-pointedness, but inclusion and groping toward consensus. It is not like a book; it is like the Internet.

Internet Guy

This is one of the critical differences between this movement and other recent ones in the US. Occupy Wall Street was born from the same parts of the internet that brought you Anonymous and co.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Be interesting to see how this all gets sorted out...

ADG

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TheDoc

Funny you say that.... here's a quote from FDR

"Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle."

Btw, the top tax rate in 1936 was 78%.

Pretty much every President in history, thought if you made more, you should be taxed more, even modern day Presidents.

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PornoMonster

Looks like there will be more people joining.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/11/news....htm?hpt=hp_t2

10,000 finance jobs to vanish from Wall Street

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12clicks

none of that is in question as we pay more than you do now.
The question is about singling out the top for additional taxes to pander to the bottom.
Envy is not good tax policy.

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OldJeff

I am surprised no one stated the obvious, OWS is a democratic party funded campaign strategy designed to shift focus away from the fact that all the current admistration policy has done is continually make the economy worse.

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TheDoc

The point was to show you incorrectly understood him.

I never saw a question... and yeah, all your taxes go straight into the pocket of the poor, that's exactly how it works.

You can think he is envious if you like.

__________________

12clicks

BTW, that tax rate was for people making over $80,000,000 a year in 1936 dollars.

taxes paid by people making $64,000 in 1936 (the equivalent of $1mil in today's dollars paid 8% income tax)

you have no argument.

__________________

12clicks

no wonder you're winning the "lowest IQ poll" in the other thread.
If you had bothered to watch the video, you'll see he never mentions the quote you dug up.
As usual, I understood it completely, you ran out and found your usual bullshit to muddy the waters to seem right again.

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TheDoc

You didn't really help your argument here...

If we're adjusting for inflation then you're just part of the bottom rung folks that should be bitching that those above you pay more, because as the President said, "Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle."

Which I've said to you before... you should start bitching up the chain, and not down... you're part of the 99%, best start dealing with it.

__________________

TheDoc

Yes, I have much troll love... it's rather cool.

Yeah chump, nobody said it was in the video, but grats on the lame twist. Sorry to confuse with facts man, I'll stick to a more fox new style next time.

__________________

12clicks

no, you just don't understand the argument.

the 78% rate that you want to tout (misguidedly) was for people who earned over $1bil in today's dollars.

you see, this is what happens to your kind when they parrot what they think supports their position.
You know nothing. If you did, you'd understand that you can't win your argument using historical tax rates.

__________________

12clicks

considering the video is what we're talking about, its only normal for you to talk about something else. its what idiots do.

however, he imposed an 8% tax rate on people earning the equivalent of $1m in todays money. obama wants to impose a 39% rate on those same people.
being at the bottom, you could care less and understand it not at all but for the rest of us, we understand that there's something wildly wrong with that.

but prattle on. it seems board whoring is all you've got left

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TheDoc

Oh I get it... it was for people, that they called; higher class - ie: not you.

Including inflation makes no difference, we can simply look at different years in history... at that, that's the same year we got a ton of other taxes, like inheritance, social taxes, a progressive corp tax system, and many others.

If you understood history, you would know that the truly wealthy, of the time and shown by you through inflation.... (again not you) paid a shit ton more taxes, and again - as I've said to you before, you should bitching up the chain rather than looking down it....

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TheDoc

Sorry me saying here's a quote for you, confused you that it was in the video.... only you would be lost in that fact that a President might have said it at some other time.

It's not my fault that you're not smart enough to learn how to avoid personal income tax so your burden is lowered... seems like "your betters" have it down perfectly.

Maybe if you stopped whoring it up with the bottom folk around here you could be off making yourself truly wealthy and part of the elite class... rather than bitching at poor, broke, bottom feeders. I mean, I don't see Bill Gates on forums ranting at those under him.... I wonder why?

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