redwhiteandblue

Anyone here on a ketogenic diet, or have successfully lived on it in the past?

My brother is trying to do it at the moment.

Not because he needs to lose weight like in the usual use of this diet because he definitely doesn't need to.

He's doing it because he has stage 4 brain cancer and it's one of the few things we've found that gives him hope of beating it.

There's science behind it - cancer cells needs glucose to live and grow, and the keto diet deprives them of that. A ketogenic diet means you get only 5% of your calories from carbs, 20% from protein and 75% from high quality fat.

The trouble is he just doesn't seem to be able to stay in ketosis (the state where your blood sugar is low and your body makes ketones from fat which your normal body cells can use for fuel). We don't know why this is so if there's someone here who can offer any clues as to what might be going wrong I'd like to hear them.

He has set up a gofundme page to help out with the cost of doing all this - he explains pretty much everything there if anyone wants to take a read - https://www.gofundme.com/stage-4-glioma-brain-cancer-fighter

He's put some links at the bottom to a couple of videos featuring people who have successfully beaten brain cancer this way.

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OneHungLo

Sorry to hear about your brother’s diagnosis. How strict is his diet? I know if you’re taking in too much protein your body can convert it to sugar.

I would go on reddit and try the keto sub. They have a ton of people on there. Best of luck.

DraX

Best of luck to your brother.

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Busty2

This is sad news, I'm really not a religious person but i do pray he get through this and back to good health

ianmoone332000

Sorry to hear that mate. Although i have not started it yet i have been interested in it for a while. Check google and utube for someone called Dr Berg or Dr Berg Keto. A friend swears by him and has transformed his life by following his plans

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ianmoone332000

Also here is a Keto group i am in. Folk can be bitchy but tell him to just ignore it:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1942...53087/?fref=nf

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pimpmaster9000

he can force ketosis if he is well enough to walk...fasting + 4-5 hours of walking for a few days and there is no other option for the body but to burn fat...getting in to ketosis is not easy...it takes usually 2-3 weeks without rigorous exercise...I may be giving you shit advice considering his medical condition...but burning calories always speeds up the process and huger is easily controlled with keto...

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OneHungLo

Yeah this could be where the problem lies. It's crazy how much glycogen the body can and will store especially someone that is athletic.

Constant Phil

Without seeing the actual diet there is no way to tell. You cant base this off macros only. As its been mentioned too much protein will cause gluconeogenesis. To put things into perspective 100G Protein will convert to 50G of Glucose.

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BaldBastard

There's forums just devoted to keto diets, I'd be asking on those.

TheSquealer

It rarely takes more than 48 hrs MAX assuming you keep your carbs down under 20-ish grams a day (for most people)... which is the only factor that matters. You can do nothing to get there faster no matter how much exercise you do. I've been doing it for 20 years and i've read mountains of literature and books on the subject and & like almost anything else in this world, I've forgotten more about it in the last week than you will ever know.

Even if you are "fasting" but eat or drink any carbs to the extent that you trigger an insulin response, you will never get into ketosis. If you don't get your blood sugar down enough to drive blood insulin levels down to almost nothing, thus triggering your pancreas to release glucagon... which then begins breaking down fatty acids into acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate which can substitute for glucose you can't get there. It's fundamental human physiology.

I am not sure why your idiotic ass is trying to lecture someone fighting a brain tumor about something you know nothing about but if you were actually educated on the topic you'd know this is a standard treatment for non operable tumors and has been done now for decades and it's efficacy is supported by mountains of medical studies. The medical staff at Johns Hopkins and MD Anderson aren't waiting for some backwoods pig fucking moron with a proud history of genocide to inform them on the next course of treatment.

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Constant Phil

He's referring to peoples initial transitioning into Keto.

You can 100% speed up how quickly you get into ketosis. Not sure what literature you read but perhaps you should re-read it.

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CaptainHowdy

All the best to your brother . . .

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Busty2

I'm not sure how feasible it is for your brother to get to San Diego CA but many years ago i spent a week at the Optimum Health Institute in San Diego as my then wife was into healthy raw food diets. While there i met and talked to many people who had come to the institute with terminal illness including cancers and the results they achieved where nothing short of amazing. It's something you may want to look into ?


Welcome to Optimum Health Institute (OHI)

pimpmaster9000

I see you are already in a drunken stupor early in the morning...exercise reduces the amount of blood sugar in the most direct way possible...so the two red quotes from above severely contradict each other...

dont hit the liquor so early in the morning

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2MuchMark

Terrible news. Good luck.

Constant Phil

Been doing it for 20 years the wrong way I guess

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adultinnovation

If you do hard cardio in the morning before you eat anything then your body will burn fat for fuel because you haven't eaten for 8 hours and it has no other choice.

I did that for like a week.. and got lean as hell

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Major (Tom)

Apologies about your brother. It depends on the type of cancer. Some are glucose dependent, while others are ketone dependent.

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Major (Tom)

After it depletes the glycogen in your muscles and liver. That would be roughly 45 minutes of sprints

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Constant Phil

That would be water and glycogen loss. A pound of pure fat is the equivlant to 3500 cals. You would need to have burned more than that in the week to get "lean as hell"

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PR_Glen

this isn't true at all. Even the first time i went into ketosis it was about 3 or 4 days with zero exercise.

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PR_Glen

that's a good point...

I was going to say. My experience with this specifically is only limited to a dog but he lived about 6 years long past he was given 3 months when switched over to a high fat zero grain diet. Technically it wasn't even cancer that killed him and he was well within old age ranges when he finally did pass. So, although a bit of a long shot, it is possible that it can help and a relatively low risk option I would say. as doctors prescribed medicine is taken along with it. Medicine they have down, but diet is limited to 60 year old outdated research.

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adultinnovation

Not if I didn't have much fat on me in the first place.. I can show you a picture of what I looked like after doing this video for no more than a week every morning before eating anything after just rolling out of bed.. I saw the fat that I had on me vanish.. so I know 100% it was burning body fat..



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOQpD8aDJeI

Constant Phil

Im well aware of what low BF percentage bodies look like after carb depletion. Are you saying your body burned more than 3500 cals doing how many days of cardio? 7?

From the sound of it you were already lean...i still wouldn't consider losing around 1% of BF (dependent on your weight) "lean as hell" or shred status. Let me ask you...is your gyno as bad as this guy in the videos? lol

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adultinnovation

I dunno.. you think he has gyno?

PR_Glen

You saw the water retention vanish... try the same thing in a sauna and you will get the same result, just faster... I don't agree with everything Phil says on these matters but what he said isn't really debatable. Boxers and fighters burn this off before fights to make weight all the time.

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adultinnovation

so you're saying all the fat I saw vanish from my belly was just water sitting there?

I went from a 33 inch waist to a 31 1/2 inch waist.. the difference was extremely noticeable.. and it happened fast

redwhiteandblue

Thanks mate. Yes we're both avid watchers of Dr. Berg's videos, it was one of his videos that first put us onto the idea of using a ketogenic diet, along with an interview he did with Prof. Thomas Seyfreid.

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redwhiteandblue

He is well enough to walk and cycle and weight train but he's stopped doing the weight training for now. He first did a 4 day fast a few weeks ago and after the 2nd day went into deep ketosis but hasn't been able to repeat it since. As soon as he starts eating again he drops completely out of ketosis so there's something in his diet that isn't right but we don't know what yet.

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Andreweb

Here is the channel of a guy who had brain cancer and he says that keto helped him a lot and now is cancer free: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoQ...RT8w6uqDmq12Hg

Also, you should watch Dr. Eric Berg's videos they are all about keto and he even has some videos about what cancer patients should eat! Basically, he says they should be eating only organic keto foods! here is his channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/drericberg123

All the best to your brother I hope he will get well very soon!

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Randomonium

You might want to look into exogenous ketone supplementation - they can help and/or even force the body into ketosis overcoming diet.

Here's some good info for you in order of increasing depth .

Keto/Cancer




There are ketone salts & ketone esters and here is some good insight about them.




I couldn't find this on YT, but here is a link to Dr. Peter Attia discussing it with Dom as well and as they say in the notes

"Dom also discusses the strategy and tactics of the metabolic management of cancer, which includes, but is certainly not limited to, a ketogenic diet (KD). Cancer is covered throughout this episode, but if there’s one section to listen to, skip ahead to the 2-hour mark and listen to what Dom has to say about the Press-Pulse approach."

Major (Tom)

I feel you. I recently lost an old bulldog. He was a heavy cigar smoker and burbon drinker though

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Major (Tom)

Not all of it but a lof if it

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